Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Sobolev Space]

Just saw your last post - yeah that change from that game to now is why I had my TR. I realize he could have changed styles which is why its not super strong, but its still a TR.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know. I want to see SBF's response to our questions about her Eddie read before making a full judgement, but I have a moderate scumread on her and think that lynch would do the least damage to town.

how did this moderate scumread come to be?

p-edit: preview functionality is definitely mcfucked right now

[Eddie Cane]

take a note from people like transcend if you want to avoid being meta'd =]

(me popping in but having nothing on my mind to post as I go back to reread stuff)

[Sobolev Space]

It was based on her comments on Eddie. I'm going more into these tomorrow but I found them shifty.

[borkjerfkin]

i love being meta'ed it's probably one of the reasons i am never mislynched on this site

yes i realize someday that will catch up with me

[borkjerfkin]

It was based on her comments on Eddie. I'm going more into these tomorrow but I found them shifty.

time is of like the super essence

[Sobolev Space]

Essentially I don't think Eddie expressed any new sentiments in his read on her before 288 that he hadn't already expressed before 200 which makes the sudden change seem odd.

[Sobolev Space]

Yea I apologize I have an assignment due at midnight that I'm working on now. If I have energy after I turn it in I'll try to make my post tonight.

[Sobolev Space]

Lol probably shouldn't be checking in on this thread then tbh.

[Eddie Cane]

Essentially I don't think Eddie expressed any new sentiments in his read on her before 288 that he hadn't already expressed before 200 which makes the sudden change seem odd.

I have a reply to this

but I want you (@sbf) to answer first

[borkjerfkin]

we actually did both ask SBF that already; did she ever answer?

[borkjerfkin]

Cane's opening was, as I see it, a reaction test. Scum love easy targets, and giving one to them is a very effective way to hunt.

I guess was the answer given, which really doesn't answer your question

[Sobolev Space]

She gave a response as I recall but it didn't really cover any arguments that specifically came in between 200 and 288 if I'm remembering correctly.

[Sobolev Space]

Yea that was what I was talking about

[Eddie Cane]

"Since Eddie has declined explaining his behavior, I'll give my take on it. Eddie opened anti-town with a self-vote and patent refusal to contribute content. He followed it up by pressuring the slot that pressured him for this, which revealed the Town motivation hidden in his opening, namely to instigate content by appearing anti-town. His push on me was designed to sort me and punish me for opportunism if my reasons for voting him were not legitimate. There was no agenda besides hunting, and for this I townread the slot."



that's from 658. it doesn't answer the timing question though.

[Sobolev Space]

Eddie that has been one of the strong tenets of my SR on her so if you can give a compelling answer I'm open to my mind being changed. As bork shows we asked her earlier and didn't really find much.

[Eddie Cane]

I have an explanation but I don't want to give her a copout, I want to see her reasoning.

[Sobolev Space]

Quickly from her ISO this also pinged me:

I'll let Cane elaborate and will comment on any differences in what I perceived.

Seems kind of like "Let Eddie offer an explanation so that I can fit my story to what he says"

Alright I do seriously have to get off for tonight. Will come back after my work is done with more on SBF.

[borkjerfkin]

If Space were to flip Town, I would read your defense of Space as scum WKing a scummy Town slot with the hope of reaping Town cred on a flip. Hard defending TRs on Day 1 is naive behavior at best, because Day 1 TRs will never be strong enough to warrant such strength of read unless you are exceptionally attuned to a player's meta. You have already retracted your defense of the slot, but it did occur and it pings me. I have you as a weak townlean for the remainder of your content. Your content is good but I haven't found anything that I don't belive scum!bork couldn't fake.

this is, after reread 2, a really ass reason to scumread (is that even what this is?) me

aside from the special pleading (like just look at TTTT's iso for examples of hard defending reads [SS included, also lowell], or look at Bella hard-towning SS), it kind of ignores (or i guess possibly misses) the fact that I townread SS before anyone in the game scumread SS or the fact that scum-me wouldn't be particularly worried about towncred at really any point in this game thus far but that's a considerably weaker point. I hate attacks that involve WKing accusations because they are both hilariously impossible to discern against town defending someone they think is town and they often lend themselves to lining up lynches

Also would like to see SBF's interpretation of GL's meta in the game that she meta'd SS in just to see what she says

It's way out of left field and just fucking weird to happen now of all times and it's throwing me off because i don't see any obvious scum motivation there or any indication that i'd be an easy mislynch to push on D2 if she gets her SS lynch and SS flips town; why not TTTT or Bella

[borkjerfkin]

I haven't found anything that I don't belive scum!bork couldn't fake.

this strikes me as an incorrect time to say this; if she really thought this then why was I ever town in the first place, don't get any indication in 288 that she thinks this or that i'm a weaker read than the others

not that "x can be faked therefore you're null" is really ever a useful thing to say considering this is a game of inductive reasoning and not deductive; very few things in mafia absolutely

can't

be faked and if this were the way we went around all the time no one would ever figure anything out about anyone

[SweetBlueFlowers]

Essentially I don't think Eddie expressed any new sentiments in his read on her before 288 that he hadn't already expressed before 200 which makes the sudden change seem odd.

This just shows that you aren't reading this game with the intent to sort. There's nothing strange about the timing of 288. It closely follows 280 and 287. That's called satisfaction.

Seems kind of like "Let Eddie offer an explanation so that I can fit my story to what he says"

Please. Cane and I have been picking at each other warily and the fact that we both actually

did

have something to say about it after not wanting to let each other off the hook screams of Town paranoia, not manipulation.


@bork - You're thinking too much about my comment on your stance towards Space. Please don't be distracted by this. To clarify, I said that I would read one part of your content as having scum motivation if Space were Town, not that I would consider you to be scum end of story put a noose on it. I stated that you were a weak townlean. Your content is largely pro-Town but I remain unconvinced that scum!bork could not produce the same content. I do not know your meta. I'd encourage you to try reading my post again and not focus on the parts about you. Space is who we should be focusing on right now. Go over both Space's newbie games and judge for yourself whether what you are seeing is town!Space.

Regarding GL, he is not playing quite the same game in this game as he was in that game, but there are similarities. He is not being powertown. He can be powertown. When he isn't powertown, he is usually scum. The righteous anger he's displayed in this game about being scumread is nearly identical to the way he reacted in that game. I felt townvibes from 423 but the way that he just left my slot alone after I moved my vote really pings me, as do 653 and 654. 653 because GL has just played a game with Space and would know how different her play is this game from her town meta, and 654 because I do not believe town!GL would have no strong scumreads today that he wanted to push and would be satisfied with letting a lynch on an inactive slot go through at this stage in the game.

I believe Bellaphant is a mislynch. 51 strikes me as having a very natural, Townie tone to it. Her comment mirrored my thoughts exactly. As I see it, she looks to be trying to sort throughout her ISO and is not merely keeping up appearances. Her content is not bad until her last two posts. From my point of view this is not a good Day 1 lynch. It is far too easy and scum would be motivated to lock this in. This is a status quo lynch.

[Fro99er]

It is far too easy and scum would be motivated to lock this in. This is a status quo lynch.

Then who is scum on the Bella wagon?

[Fro99er]

I don't scumread Bella, I am voting her for pressure. This slot is the best place for my vote right now. I asked her pointed questions and when she answers satisfactorily them I will unvote.

I believe Bellaphant is a mislynch. 51 strikes me as having a very natural, Townie tone to it. Her comment mirrored my thoughts exactly. As I see it, she looks to be trying to sort throughout her ISO and is not merely keeping up appearances. Her content is not bad until her last two posts. From my point of view this is not a good Day 1 lynch. It is far too easy and scum would be motivated to lock this in. This is a status quo lynch.

I just don't understand why you believe bella is a mislynch, yet voted her for pressure and had no better place for your vote.

If you townread her, as your latter post indicates, why not instead vote your scumreads instead of putting someone you are townreading at L-1?

So if you think Bella is a scum motivated mislynch, why are you not looking to her wagon for your vote? (maybe you are with Bork, but then you should be voting him)

VOTE: SBF

[SweetBlueFlowers]

Putting someone at L-1 with EoD approaching is in fact an excellent way to determine the motivation of other slots. Do you think that GL offers to hammer if I don't have Bellaphant at L-1? I am not TRing her. She is null. Please think before you post, Frog.

{Cane, Frog, Low}
{bork, 4T}
{Bella}
{}
{GL, Space}

[Aristophanes]

Methinks i can steal me a pagetop!