Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Aristophanes]

VC 1.14

Bellaphant

(3): TTTT 371, Lowell 543, borkjerfkin 544

Lowell

(2): Sobolev Space 246, GuiltyLion 306

TTTT

(1): Bellaphant 299

Sobolev Space

(1): SweetBlueFlowers 658

SweetBlueFlowers

(1): Fro99er 722

Not Voting

(1): Eddie Cane 665

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
Day one ends March 4th at 1pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-03-04 13:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Bellaphant is V/LA until Saturday.

[Fro99er]

Please think before you post, Frog.

don't ever say this to me again.

I ALWAYS think before I post. I am literally always thinking about my games.

[Fro99er]

I believe Bellaphant is a mislynch. 51 strikes me as having a very natural, Townie tone to it.

HOW IS THIS NOT TOWNREADING HER

"mislynch"

"townie tone"

[Fro99er]

You haven't even answered who is scum from the Bella wagon.

You think literally the three people voting her now are on the town side, then how is it a scum motivated mislynch?

[Fro99er]

Putting someone at L-1 with EoD approaching is in fact an excellent way to determine the motivation of other slots. Do you think that GL offers to hammer if I don't have Bellaphant at L-1? I am not TRing her. She is null. Please think before you post, Frog.

{Cane, Frog,

Low

}
{

bork, 4T

}
{Bella}
{}
{GL, Space}

Those are the three voting Bella, other than you were for the L-1 vote.

[Fro99er]

From my point of view this is not a good Day 1 lynch. It is far too easy and scum would be motivated to lock this in.

THEN WHO ARE THE SCUM LOCKING THIS IN

[Sobolev Space]

Finished my work.

VOTE: SBF

Eddie I want you to explain your take on the timing issue because I don't buy what SBF is saying. The sentiments you express in 280 and 287 (i.e. SBF isn't doing anything) you express equally well in 174.

Heading to bed so will have to make my longer post tomorrow. I've already covered the basic reasons why I'm SRing SBF (although if anyone wants me to elaborate I will) so I was mainly just planning on going point by point through her case on me.

[borkjerfkin]

To clarify, I said that I would read one part of your content as having scum motivation if Space were Town

There is at least 1 scum in {bork, Space}.

if Space were Town

There is at least 1 scum in {bork,

Space

}.

There is at least 1 scum in {bork}.

?

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

SS we don't have a ton of time for your case. Make it now.

[borkjerfkin]

Go over both Space's newbie games and judge for yourself whether what you are seeing is town!Space.

And if I see something markedly different I should assume what?

[borkjerfkin]

Regarding GL, he is not playing quite the same game in this game as he was in that game, but there are similarities. He is not being powertown. He can be powertown. When he isn't powertown, he is usually scum.

You need to very much elaborate on everything you said in this post, including:

1) why are you ignoring differences in play here when it doesn't fit the conclusion you want
2) what is powertown
3) how does him not being "powertown" make him scum
4) what examples are you using

[Sobolev Space]

@Frogger - I've covered the main reasons for my SR in the last page - timing issue and 569 pinging me. Do you want me to elaborate on anything?

@bork - SBF conveniently left out the fact that I have a scum newbie game as well (although I replaced in d2 and was lynched soon after)

[Fro99er]

not that I would consider you to be scum end of story put a noose on it.

bork why did you cut this part of it?

also your post there is predicated on SS being town. But SBF clearly says "IF" (and even says it's not scum end of story)

Could be SS scum and you town, which kinda appears how SBF is thinking with her reads as is.

[Fro99er]

Heading to bed so will have to make my longer post tomorrow

SS, sorry I was wanting this sooner than later. Because tomorrow is getting really close to deadline. I'm worried you're putting this off for a reason.

[borkjerfkin]

@bork - SBF conveniently left out the fact that I have a scum newbie game as well (although I replaced in d2 and was lynched soon after)

she did say games, plural, but i'd have assumed the other one was a town game too without going to look

I really don't like this, what I refer to as armchair meta (and town and scum both do it) where someone just looks and decides that they look different than another game of the alignment opposite of what they want the person to be and decide that that's the basis for their read. It is so so so so error prone that I don't do it. There are many, many reasons why someone's playstyle might change from game to game.

Similarities are a better argument, but I think this too is subject to confbias if not done very, very carefully. I was not careful last game and it might have cost us the game (gave a bad read on pieguy at the end of d2 and died that night and town never questioned that slot again)

[Fro99er]

Bork we're gonna disagree here. I heavily use meta. Heavily. That's my playstyle. I think there are certain things that can't be faked by most people (there are a few I cannot get a meta read on, so I don't try to).

It's really situationally dependent, TBH. I know bella has a pretty divisive meta, but I've also seen things from her meta that work as town and scum so the meta part is null.

Other people I can soul meta read, clear as day.

[borkjerfkin]

bork why did you cut this part of it?

I could have not cut it and it would neither have helped nor hurt my point -- I am showing SBF is not saying what i did quote (thus implying that she is also not saying what I didn't quote and what you quoted)

also your post there is predicated on SS being town. But SBF clearly says "IF" (and even says it's not scum end of story)

Well yeah, my point in 718 is only in play if SS is town; I am saying SBF is saying I am scum if SS is town, and SBF is backing off from that point and claiming no she didn't say that in 720

[borkjerfkin]

Bork we're gonna disagree here. I heavily use meta. Heavily. That's my playstyle. I think there are certain things that can't be faked by most people (there are a few I cannot get a meta read on, so I don't try to).

I mean I know people do it and I know they will continue to. I think playstyle differences in a vacuum say almost nothing.

[Fro99er]

I am showing SBF is not saying what i did quote (thus implying that she is also not saying what I didn't quote and what you quoted)

I've read this five times over and am not following this.

Can you rephrase?

[Fro99er]

SBF is backing off from that point and claiming no she didn't say that in 720

where is this?

All I see is a reply to me in 723

[Fro99er]

Bork we're gonna disagree here. I heavily use meta. Heavily. That's my playstyle. I think there are certain things that can't be faked by most people (there are a few I cannot get a meta read on, so I don't try to).

I mean I know people do it and I know they will continue to. I think playstyle differences in a vacuum say almost nothing.

I agree people shouldn't say "this looks different from X game"

for me meta is a starting point, and is much more about feel than specifics (although there can be specifics). I can't explain it. I'll just drop it because I think this is beside the point.

[Fro99er]

Well yeah, my point in 718 is only in play if SS is town; I am saying SBF is saying I am scum if SS is town, and SBF is backing off from that point and claiming no she didn't say that in 720

Oh wait, you're saying in post 720 she is saying "no she didn't say that" (about the prior stuff)

[borkjerfkin]

I said that I would read one part of your content as having scum motivation if Space were Town

, not that

I would consider you to be scum end of story put a noose on it

I think red is the antithesis of blue, I was pointing out that she wasn't actually saying blue in 658, implying that she WAS saying red. I didn't feel the need to post the latter part of that because I think 658 shows that she is saying 1 scum in {me, SS} thereby meaning an SS townflip WOULD make me scum and that she's backing off by just saying "well no it just could potentially be scummy" later

[borkjerfkin]

basically how does she get from

There is at least 1 scum in {bork, Space}.

to

I said that I would read one part of your content as having scum motivation if Space were Town

because those are two very different assertions

[Fro99er]

Yeah, I keep reading that again.

I can kinda see the "if space is town bork is more likely scum" as a bit of a lining up lynch stuff. Although I'm not sure it was intended that way. And the part that bothers me the most is how she insists SS should be the focus, because then if he flips town it gives her a reason to think you're more likely scum. (and if she's scum then she knows SS will flip town, which leads to the lining up lynches scenario).