Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Aristophanes]

VC 1.16

Bellaphant

(3): TTTT 371, Lowell 543, borkjerfkin 544

SweetBlueFlowers

(2): Soblev Space 731, Fro99er 792

Lowell

(1): GuiltyLion 306

TTTT

(1): Bellaphant 299

Sobolev Space

(1): SweetBlueFlowers 658

Not Voting

(1): Eddie Cane 665

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
Day one ends March 4th at 1pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-03-04 13:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Bellaphant is V/LA until Saturday.
Lowell is V/LA until Tuesday.

[SweetBlueFlowers]

TTTT and bella have hard defended SS as i have previously stated. Why aren't yoy giving them shit about it?

4T's ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

Bellaphant's ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

I also can't see why ss would involve herself in the conversation if she was scum with either - it's tieing her to them in a way that isn't needed, but she does seem to want to clarify and stablise the conversation. I also don't think this was a wild conclusion to jump to.

(This is much more giving a read than defending, but whatever, it'd feel dumb to have 2 empty spoilers.)

Your ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

I didn't quote everything. but anyways, his iso is just trolling and has extremely minimal content. there is very little content here and a lot of fence sitting: 222 is just shade, more importantly, I hate 229. he says he doesn't see it coming from scum and then proceeds to call it a null read. you literally just said it doesn't come from scum, so why would you not at least town lean him? there's just so little content and so much joking in your iso. I disagree with the notion your play is earnest; you're a competent enough player and I dislike you posting enough to stay "active" while not coming out with any actual content.

I am going to continually fight you on an SS lynch and no one else agrees with you. This is a vanity lynch that you're not gonna get. Do something else.

How are you so certain in your Space read that you would WK them with Day 1 barely under way? I don't believe that Space is a vanity lynch and I would be perfectly willing to wagon the slot.

It might be barely underway for you, but I've been doing this for almost a week continually now and I like to think I have a good bead on at least a few slots.

I probably misspoke with the vanity lynch thing and retract it -- I see right now probably you, eddie, GL willing to vote them.

anyway the ss read for you and eddie - the first thing that pinged town as I mentioned was the opening post again GL, which i think you all agree with so i'm moving on

I thought the post about me (109, 112) was a fine "this perspective seems off" type of read even if she didn't understand what i was actually saying at the time

The manner in which she is meta-ing frogger is correct and isn't being used to assert a conclusion she wants to push -- if you go looking for meta, and see different behavior from this game or see the same type of behavior in all games, i think a null read is the right conclusion to come to there.

has not blindly bloc'ed with me -- 134 i think shows she's continually questioning whether or not I am, as you say, WKing her (i generally see this used as a pejorative description of scum behavior) or i genuinely think she is town

the sheer number of times either she or I have been about to post the exact same thing as each other leads me to believe we're thinking about the game in similar ways and hitting the same "this makes no sense / feels weird to me" type of notes. I think a scum player would have a hard time accidentally lucking into that.

This is all the things that have occurred to me over the game -- going looking for more I think would be confbiasing. I am willing to hard defend her at this point because between her and Bella (and i'm warming up to both frogger and eddie) I don't see many people who are being that transparent about trying to solve the game, and townhunting is just I think a style that I have to fall back to because it has a high floor -- if i can pick out 3 or 4 true townreads, i have a much smaller chance of fucking up, even if i can't correctly identify scum (and my scumpool is wide enough and volatile enough that i think i have a good chance of guessing wrong D1)

for example, explain how you think he gives a fuck about sorting SS. to me the read is really shallow.

in progress, actually;

Eddie I gave 341 and thusfar you've not even acknowledged it despite specifically asking me for it. Why?

Still not seeing how you're attributing SS' iso as mostly trolling / minimal content; like even the stuff you're quoting has reads and analysis; if you're going after people for minimal content i have no idea why you singled this player out. If you're peeved that it's peppered with jokes every once in a while like 198 who cares?

I really don't like this, what I refer to as armchair meta (and town and scum both do it) where someone just looks and decides that they look different than another game of the alignment opposite of what they want the person to be and decide that that's the basis for their read. It is so so so so error prone that I don't do it. There are many, many reasons why someone's playstyle might change from game to game.

(739 is coincidentally also a misrep given that meta is a fraction of my case on Space, but this is typical of the selective reading you've been doing with all my recent posts.)

Because town!bork knows that his reads have a very high chance of being inaccurate part-way through Day 1 and doesn't hinder other slots from scumhunting (or giving the appearance of it).

Ugh. Lets back up because i know you're probably not trying to say this, but i feel that you're saying that only scum would defend a townread Because town might be wrong in doing so.

If you're not saying that, then please try to explain what you are trying to say and again why you are viewing my calling ss town differently than anyone else calling anyone (including ss) town

Giving a read =! defending. Defending =! hard defending.

I didn't actually include the majority of your posts reacting to my case on Space and GL, but what you have been doing is pretty chainsaw-y and ever since I made it you have been attacking me over inconsequential aspects of my arguments, which I've had to explain in such minute detail that my push on Space and GL has been lost in the process. Asking me to expand on what I'm saying is fine. Nitpicking on irrelevant details of my arguments and ignoring their actual substance is not fine.

Your reaction to me suggesting that there may be a world where scum!bork exists has been overblown and a complete distraction. Attacking my cases on Space and GL in the exaggerated and narrow way you have as been a complete distraction. If you are Town this behavior is something you seriously need to unlearn because this is textbook scum play and if I didn't believe that you were genuinely confused enough to need explanations about basic mafia theory and the semantic and syntactic composition of my posts then I would be hunting the fuck out of you right now.

[Eddie Cane]

Methinks i can steal me a pagetop!

where's the vc loser

[borkjerfkin]

I didn't believe that you were genuinely confused enough to need explanations about basic mafia theory

Is demeaning. Stop. I'm not a goddamn moron, I'm playing the game differently than you think I should.

(739 is coincidentally also a misrep given that meta is a fraction of my case on Space, but this is typical of the selective reading you've been doing with all my recent posts.)

Was trying to talk in general there and I wasn't calling you scummy, I just don't think it's effective.

Giving a read =! defending. Defending =! hard defending.

Like is this the disconnect? Do you believe it is more town to say "I think x is town but I'm going to let you do what you want" vs "I think x is town and here is why I think you're wrong" because the latter is how I am generally going to play every time; it gives me the opportunity to get a read on the person who has the opposing read and gives them the opportunity to convince me I'm wrong.

I'd also like to add that in pretty much every case you mentioned I am responding to someone asking me about SS. I am curious as to how you expected me to react to that if not how I did.

This is the only thing in this post I really want a response to.

But even if it was all unforced defense, I don't see an issue with providing a defense of a player i

think

is town that is both 1) demonstrable that I really think what I think and 2) is commensurate with the level of the read.

Attacking my cases on Space and GL in the exaggerated and narrow way you have as been a complete distraction.

I don't think this conversation has been a distraction. I'm still trying to figure you out and this is helping me.

[borkjerfkin]

Asking me to expand on what I'm saying is fine. Nitpicking on irrelevant details of my arguments and ignoring their actual substance is not fine.

I don't think this should need stating, but obviously I feel I'm doing the former and not the latter.

[borkjerfkin]

Gun to my head SBF is town.

[borkjerfkin]

and ever since I made it you have been attacking me over inconsequential aspects of my arguments, which I've had to explain in such minute detail that my push on Space and GL has been lost in the process.

pretty much for this sentiment which I think is best expressed here; town has much more a reason to feel frustrated here than scum does and it reads genuine to me; scum-sbf doesn't really need a GL/SS lynch to succeed on D1; they could easily fall back on the at least one of (Bella/Lowell) that isn't scum as both have had viable wagons today

[Fro99er]

Finished my work.

VOTE: SBF

Eddie I want you to explain your take on the timing issue because I don't buy what SBF is saying. The sentiments you express in 280 and 287 (i.e. SBF isn't doing anything) you express equally well in 174.

Heading to bed so will have to make my longer post tomorrow. I've already covered the basic reasons why I'm SRing SBF (although if anyone wants me to elaborate I will) so I was mainly just planning on going point by point through her case on me.

the game had progressed enough, I took it as more of a length thing where she decided I was genuine.

What?

[Fro99er]

Methinks i can steal me a pagetop!

where's the vc loser

Can you swin something useful.

We're a day from deadline and as it stands now we're going to no lynch because Bella is gone, Lowell is gone, and you are sitting there not voting anyone.

How am I the only player in this game that scumreads eddie?

[Fro99er]

Swin= do. I have no idea how my phone autocorrected to that

[Eddie Cane]

my interpretation was sbf has decided the game was progressed to the point where everything we were gonna get out of my self vote was gotten and it was time to analyze and advance. 90 posts is a long time

[Eddie Cane]

Methinks i can steal me a pagetop!

where's the vc loser

Can you swin something useful.

We're a day from deadline and as it stands now we're going to no lynch because Bella is gone, Lowell is gone, and you are sitting there not voting anyone.

How am I the only player in this game that scumreads eddie?

I'll vote before dl. right now I'm leaning ss. we definitely aren't no lynching rofl

[Fro99er]

Ok. That makes sense.

But that doesn't explain why she suddenly town read you for your behavior toward her slot, when you did nothing different toward her slot in that time frame.

[Fro99er]

Gun to my head SBF is town.

Who do you even scumread?

[Eddie Cane]

I've been thinking about sbf a lot, along with my Lowell read (I don't like how dodgy he's being). she did explain in depth though; whether or not it satisfied you is up to you.

[borkjerfkin]

Bella or lowell are still probably my best shots at a scum lynch

[Eddie Cane]

Still feeling frogger as scum here. I think he's trying to overwhelm us with activity and energy.

Frogger: "THIS IS HOW I ALWAYS PLAY. Get used to it wooooo Frog4LyFe!"

Sure, sure, but this feels more scum thread-bullying (in a massive text way, not in an abusive way) than it feels high-energy town.

@TTTT, no, seriously, no one ever thinks I'm town D1. You are suspicious.

and yet, never joined the frogger wagon and ignored my posts directed at him about it completely

[borkjerfkin]

did you not say recently that lowell was off the table for you?

[borkjerfkin]

I've been thinking about sbf a lot, along with my Lowell read (I don't like how dodgy he's being). she did explain in depth though; whether or not it satisfied you is up to you.

do you have any deeper thoughts about SBF's back and forth with me or SS? why are you favoring SS

[Fro99er]

@Eddie - down for an SBF lynch? If you'd like I can go more through her ISO and explain the scumread in depth but you seem to have a TR on her so I'm unsure if you'd want to join in.

sell me on it. as I said, Lowell and bork are the only people I will not consider.

[Fro99er]

Eddie's posturing to be on a Lowell wagon.

I dunno if that's so he can bus Lowell or because he knows Lowell is town, but eddie is scum

VOTE: Eddie

[Eddie Cane]

did you not say recently that lowell was off the table for you?

Yea. I have no scum reads outside of frogger right now though so I reread a lot.

[Eddie Cane]

I've been thinking about sbf a lot, along with my Lowell read (I don't like how dodgy he's being). she did explain in depth though; whether or not it satisfied you is up to you.

do you have any deeper thoughts about SBF's back and forth with me or SS? why are you favoring SS

because I townread sbf.

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie's posturing to be on a Lowell wagon.

I dunno if that's so he can bus Lowell or because he knows Lowell is town, but eddie is scum

VOTE: Eddie

"Lowell might be town or scum but you're scum"

[borkjerfkin]

@Eddie - down for an SBF lynch? If you'd like I can go more through her ISO and explain the scumread in depth but you seem to have a TR on her so I'm unsure if you'd want to join in.

sell me on it. as I said, Lowell and bork are the only people I will not consider.

implies you were open to considering SBF; you've not really commented on it.