Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Aristophanes]

Well, the night is over and one of you has died. At least you won't have to spell his crazy name anymore!

borkjerfkin,

VT

, died N1.

VC 2.0

Not Voting

(7): TTTT, GuiltyLion, SweetBlueFlowers, Sobolev Space, Eddie Cane, Lowell, Fro99er

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Day two ends March 4th at 1pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-03-20 14:00:00)

[borkjerfkin]

bye guys

[Eddie Cane]

Mod reminder I'm VLA from tomorrow til the 25th

.


VOTE: tttt

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: Lowell

@GL - it was my impression that the Bella wagon appeared when town started coalescing around a Lowell lynch but I could be misreading this. Seems a little suspicious.

I wanna flip this.

[Sobolev Space]

Also am fine with Eddie's vote

[Fro99er]

@Mod vla until wednesday. I just got stung by a bark scorpion. FML

[Eddie Cane]

gws

[SweetBlueFlowers]

Bye bork.

The fact that we have 2 votes coming in today and neither of them are on GL is just depressing.

Here's what we're going to do guys. We're lynching me today. Tomorrow you quicklynch GL and win. No questions asked. That simple. This is the quickest solution and I don't feel like sitting around watching you guys get cold feet on an obvscum.

VOTE: Blue

[Sobolev Space]

Aside from GL, do you think there were any scum on the Bella wagon?

[TTTT]

I like sbf's day start so far.

[Eddie Cane]

Bye bork.

The fact that we have 2 votes coming in today and neither of them are on GL is just depressing.

Here's what we're going to do guys. We're lynching me today. Tomorrow you quicklynch GL and win. No questions asked. That simple. This is the quickest solution and I don't feel like sitting around watching you guys get cold feet on an obvscum.

VOTE: Blue

yesterday you were voting Sobolev for a lot of the later part of the day. do you think the scum team is sobolev/gl?

[GuiltyLion]

873 - He just wants to go to Night. He doesn't care about this Town. town!GL would be serious about finding scum right now, he would know that Bellaphant doesn't give off serious enough scumvibes to just lock that hammer in without discussion, the reason he was willing to hammer in the first place doesn't even apply anymore, there's just nothing there.

I absolutely did want to go to night. I was on a ski trip last weekend so I didn't have much time to play and 30+ pages is plenty for a D1.

I don't know what you're talking about "lock that hammer in without discussion", there was like a day left until deadline and Bella seemed like the consensus lynch. I would've rather had Lowell but people were avoiding the wagon.

Also, self-meta and all, but scum!GL is much more aggressive about "finding scum" than town!GL. As town I mostly just try to steer clear of obviously bad lynches and lynch outside of a townpool. As scum I usually try a lot harder to make my votes/cases seem justified. It's definitely something for me to improve regarding my scumplay, but you should look at the Party Mafia Newbie game with Sobolev referenced/linked in this thread and see the difference. I don't always "powertown" and I can link plenty of examples where I don't have strong scumvibes from anyone on D1. In fact, even in the Undertale game you linked as an example of me being "powertown", my D2 play was very cautious and uncertain.

As for this post:

Here's what we're going to do guys. We're lynching me today. Tomorrow you quicklynch GL and win. No questions asked. That simple. This is the quickest solution and I don't feel like sitting around watching you guys get cold feet on an obvscum.

is frankly horrific play for someone who acts like they know so much about mafia. I'm town and if you're town then this is a guaranteed auto-loss.

Regardless of your alignment

, there's absolutely NO reason not to push for my lynch instead of trying to get yourself lynched first, and the AtE/WIFOM of voting yourself is useless and insanely anti-town. It's not even like you were already a top lynch candidate for today and you resigned yourself to your own wagon, which happens sometimes, but instead you're starting off the day with this shit? Grow up.

Also, if you're back to scumreading me, then I want to know what the "towntell" you claimed to see in 569 was and why you decided it no longer applies.

VOTE: Lowell

[Eddie Cane]

GL, if you're certain someone's scum in this setup then day 3 is the optimal time to lynch them so you don't need to find a partner. thst said, I have no intention to lynch sbf because I'm fairly sure she's town, but it makes sense if she's 100% confident you're scum. I'm not, so I want her to convince me, and regardless I'm lynching someome besides her because she's my strongest living town read.

[GuiltyLion]

GL, if you're certain someone's scum in this setup then day 3 is the optimal time to lynch them so you don't need to find a partner. thst said, I have no intention to lynch sbf because I'm fairly sure she's town, but it makes sense if she's 100% confident you're scum. I'm not, so I want her to convince me, and regardless I'm lynching someome besides her because she's my strongest living town read.

a) I find acting like you have 100% certainty obnoxiously unbecoming in mafia, and generally more pro-scum than town
b) The "grow up" remark is more due to her "I'm going back to prodges" and "I don't feel like sitting around" bullshit. I guess mathematically it's better to lynch me D3 than D2 if you think I'm scum, but she should still be pushing to lynch

outside herself

in all universes today

[Eddie Cane]

I sometimes act like I have 100% certainty for reactions, but I never have more than 90 (outside of pr results obviously). but anyways, that's off topic and more mafia theory than game related.

I obviously already said I'm not voting her today so nothing in b to reply to

[TTTT]

NO TALK ABOUT LYNCHING BORK HE'S TOWN

What was the point of this post a EOD?

[TTTT]

*at EOD?

[Eddie Cane]

I thought there was a decent chance I'd get nkd and Sobolev had thrown shade at him.

[Sobolev Space]

? I never talked about lynching bork. Do you mean SBF?

[Eddie Cane]

TTTT and bella have hard defended SS as i have previously stated. Why aren't yoy giving them shit about it?

4T's ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

Bellaphant's ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

I also can't see why ss would involve herself in the conversation if she was scum with either - it's tieing her to them in a way that isn't needed, but she does seem to want to clarify and stablise the conversation. I also don't think this was a wild conclusion to jump to.

(This is much more giving a read than defending, but whatever, it'd feel dumb to have 2 empty spoilers.)

Your ISO defending Space:

Spoiler:

I didn't quote everything. but anyways, his iso is just trolling and has extremely minimal content. there is very little content here and a lot of fence sitting: 222 is just shade, more importantly, I hate 229. he says he doesn't see it coming from scum and then proceeds to call it a null read. you literally just said it doesn't come from scum, so why would you not at least town lean him? there's just so little content and so much joking in your iso. I disagree with the notion your play is earnest; you're a competent enough player and I dislike you posting enough to stay "active" while not coming out with any actual content.

I am going to continually fight you on an SS lynch and no one else agrees with you. This is a vanity lynch that you're not gonna get. Do something else.

How are you so certain in your Space read that you would WK them with Day 1 barely under way? I don't believe that Space is a vanity lynch and I would be perfectly willing to wagon the slot.

It might be barely underway for you, but I've been doing this for almost a week continually now and I like to think I have a good bead on at least a few slots.

I probably misspoke with the vanity lynch thing and retract it -- I see right now probably you, eddie, GL willing to vote them.

anyway the ss read for you and eddie - the first thing that pinged town as I mentioned was the opening post again GL, which i think you all agree with so i'm moving on

I thought the post about me (109, 112) was a fine "this perspective seems off" type of read even if she didn't understand what i was actually saying at the time

The manner in which she is meta-ing frogger is correct and isn't being used to assert a conclusion she wants to push -- if you go looking for meta, and see different behavior from this game or see the same type of behavior in all games, i think a null read is the right conclusion to come to there.

has not blindly bloc'ed with me -- 134 i think shows she's continually questioning whether or not I am, as you say, WKing her (i generally see this used as a pejorative description of scum behavior) or i genuinely think she is town

the sheer number of times either she or I have been about to post the exact same thing as each other leads me to believe we're thinking about the game in similar ways and hitting the same "this makes no sense / feels weird to me" type of notes. I think a scum player would have a hard time accidentally lucking into that.

This is all the things that have occurred to me over the game -- going looking for more I think would be confbiasing. I am willing to hard defend her at this point because between her and Bella (and i'm warming up to both frogger and eddie) I don't see many people who are being that transparent about trying to solve the game, and townhunting is just I think a style that I have to fall back to because it has a high floor -- if i can pick out 3 or 4 true townreads, i have a much smaller chance of fucking up, even if i can't correctly identify scum (and my scumpool is wide enough and volatile enough that i think i have a good chance of guessing wrong D1)

for example, explain how you think he gives a fuck about sorting SS. to me the read is really shallow.

in progress, actually;

Eddie I gave 341 and thusfar you've not even acknowledged it despite specifically asking me for it. Why?

Still not seeing how you're attributing SS' iso as mostly trolling / minimal content; like even the stuff you're quoting has reads and analysis; if you're going after people for minimal content i have no idea why you singled this player out. If you're peeved that it's peppered with jokes every once in a while like 198 who cares?

I really don't like this, what I refer to as armchair meta (and town and scum both do it) where someone just looks and decides that they look different than another game of the alignment opposite of what they want the person to be and decide that that's the basis for their read. It is so so so so error prone that I don't do it. There are many, many reasons why someone's playstyle might change from game to game.

(739 is coincidentally also a misrep given that meta is a fraction of my case on Space, but this is typical of the selective reading you've been doing with all my recent posts.)

Because town!bork knows that his reads have a very high chance of being inaccurate part-way through Day 1 and doesn't hinder other slots from scumhunting (or giving the appearance of it).

Ugh. Lets back up because i know you're probably not trying to say this, but i feel that you're saying that only scum would defend a townread Because town might be wrong in doing so.

If you're not saying that, then please try to explain what you are trying to say and again why you are viewing my calling ss town differently than anyone else calling anyone (including ss) town

Giving a read =! defending. Defending =! hard defending.

I didn't actually include the majority of your posts reacting to my case on Space and GL, but what you have been doing is pretty chainsaw-y and ever since I made it you have been attacking me over inconsequential aspects of my arguments, which I've had to explain in such minute detail that my push on Space and GL has been lost in the process. Asking me to expand on what I'm saying is fine. Nitpicking on irrelevant details of my arguments and ignoring their actual substance is not fine.

Your reaction to me suggesting that there may be a world where scum!bork exists has been overblown and a complete distraction. Attacking my cases on Space and GL in the exaggerated and narrow way you have as been a complete distraction. If you are Town this behavior is something you seriously need to unlearn because this is textbook scum play and if I didn't believe that you were genuinely confused enough to need explanations about basic mafia theory and the semantic and syntactic composition of my posts then I would be hunting the fuck out of you right now.

Yea sbf not ss myb

[TTTT]

ok, I'll buy that eddie.

[Sobolev Space]

Why aren't you voting, TTTT?

[TTTT]

VOTE: fro99er

I don't believe that fro99er's failed to sort Bella one way or another.
How is fro99er best friends with bella with lots of game experience together and yet near deadline says...

I guess I can go with Bella as a deadline vote.

I don't feel great about it but I don't feel awful about it. Don't really like lynching a VLA player that can't defend herself.

There is literally no effort ever in the second half of the day to lynch or defend Bella's slot.
How do can you know a player so well and spend so much of the early game interacting with them
and end up with that hard a null read?


Pedit: Because I was getting to this but had the easier question first.

[Lowell]

Back from long weekend. prod avoidance now, posting tomorrow.

[Aristophanes]

Methinks i can steal me a pagetop!