Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[Rels]

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

First, when he voted me I was looking to be the lynch:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Votecount 1.13

Mod Error: In the previous VC, KidAmn is voting hapahauli when he voted Rels in 895

[L-3] Rels - Kop, Hawk, cassielle, KidAmn
[L-5] KidAmn - Rels, hapahauli
[L-5] Hapahauli - Creature, BlackVoid
[L-5] Kop - Aubrey, doomfeathers
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

Not voting: havingfitz

With 12 alive, a majority vote is decided with 7 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-01 23:00:00)

Only Cass' vote was after Hawk's in this votecount, there was an error in the immediately preceding one. So Hawk put me in the lead actually.

Second, I can see how you think that doesn't make town, or how that doesn't make me scum. Because that's the obvious answer, so WIFOM. But that doesn't prove at all the opposite. That doesn't make sense. He waffled about Hapa while voting me when I was in the lead, then Aubrey when Aubrey was in the lead. How you can conclude that it makes Hapa town and me scum is very, very weird.

Third, he didn't hop off my wagon when I started getting traction, he voted Aubrey when Aubrey started getting traction. So was Aubrey scum too in your mind or what ?

VOTE: Aubrey

I don't think town Aubrey gets frustrated there the way he does. He hasn't pushed the game forward at all just consigned that Rels and Hapa were the lynches of the day despite not 100% liking a Hapa lynch. Scum Aubrey is very cunning and I haven't played with him in a scum game where he's been scumread early so I don't know how genuine he can fake AtE, but I do know that in my last game WITH Aubrey as scum he took a backseat to me leading town and successfully had me and the rest of town town reading him for days before finally we hit f3 and there was no possible way for him to be town in my eyes and I had to scramble to figure out how to convince our backup role cop that he was scum and I wasnt.

Votecount 1.16

[L-2] Aubrey - BlackVoid, havingfitz, Creature, hapahauli, Hawk
[L-4] Hapahauli - Aubrey, cassielle, KidAmn
[L-6] KidAmn - Rels
[L-6] Rels - Kop
[L-6] Kop - doomfeathers
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

With 12 alive, a majority vote is decided with 7 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-01 23:00:00)

Prod: Kop has (expired on 2017-03-02 10:20:00) to post until getting force-replaced.

[Rels]

rereading actually KidDamn's vote was after Hawk's too, just not vote-formatted for some reason.

[BlackVoid]

Hawk does spend a lot of time discrediting the Hap push though. See "

Rels and OoO are off playing Mafia on TL forums and responding with meta alignments and indications I wanna vomit at how much all of their case against Hapa initially was noise and I couldn't dig into it myself

" in 659. He also votes both Kop and KidAmn when they were counterwagons to Hap but never actually votes Hap himself despite saying he's suspicious of him.

[outoforder]

I am not saying it makes you scum lol.
I am saying it doesn't exculde you from his possible partners like BV suggested.
I am never going to make a case on someone based on "this mafia guy said X or Y about this A dude therefore he is scum". That's just retarded imo.

[Rels]

OOO why are not fact checking everyting instead of relying on Cass ? You who didn't want to answer me because "the answer is in my ISO" ?

[BlackVoid]

Actually make that Kop, KidAmn, and Rels - three counterwagons to Hap total that Hawk is on. It's only after it looked like Hap was a certain lynch that Hawk started saying "yeah, it looks like we're lynching him today anyways." I'm not entirely sure I got the timeline right so I'll re-read that part in a bit and get back on that.

[Rels]

I am not saying it makes you scum lol.
I am saying it doesn't exculde you from his possible partners like BV suggested.
I am never going to make a case on someone based on "this mafia guy said X or Y about this A dude therefore he is scum". That's just retarded imo.

but you are saying it makes Hapa's town. Which is ridiculous.

[Rels]

and while you're saying "I am not saying it makes you scum lol.", you're spending quite a lot of time giving hints to that direction. And that started to change Cass' read for example.

[Rels]

UNVOTE: havingfitz
VOTE: Hapahauli

[Rels]

I am not saying it makes you scum lol.
I am saying it doesn't exculde you from his possible partners like BV suggested.
I am never going to make a case on someone based on "this mafia guy said X or Y about this A dude therefore he is scum". That's just retarded imo.

"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."

come on you were never gonna get lynched and you know it aswell as i do.

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

If this is true seems like he wasn't wanting to lynch Rels after all.. ^^

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since

he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

oh my...
i so do this when i am mafia. i so do just the same because i am an arrogant prick. ^_^

If we are talking about associative reads this is the best thing i have seen here (i am not saying this is the case but i kinda want it to be).
"Let's call someone town for a reason that should make people think i am town too for the same reason without me trying to tell them i am town, like they can figure it out by themselves, i just pointed them to the "right" track."

After this game if Rels happens to be mafia, i wanna know if this is true or not, because i tip my hat to you Hawk if it is, that's quite smart!

I had a nice reply typed up then my phone fucked it all up by restarting itself for a update. So I will post this when I can get in front of a computer since I actually have a lot to say about this.

But to answer that last part BV yes I intend baring us finding some really good reasoning based of Rels response to lynch him. Move back to Hapa to end the day with that lynch.

ah here we go.

So basically he put his vote on Rels with "let's see what Rels says so i can decide if i keep my vote on him or not", right?

Nope, just hinting at it. Like a fucking scum would do

[outoforder]

Hawk does spend a lot of time discrediting the Hap push though. See "

Rels and OoO are off playing Mafia on TL forums and responding with meta alignments and indications I wanna vomit at how much all of their case against Hapa initially was noise and I couldn't dig into it myself

" in 659. He also votes both Kop and KidAmn when they were counterwagons to Hap but never actually votes Hap himself despite saying he's suspicious of him.

As mafia, why would you want to be on a mislynch wagon? He never also says "no, do not lynch Hapa! He is town!".
For me it looks like he realizes (incorrectly) that people are most likely going to lynch Hapa (especailly since @ post 888 which you initially quoted) there are already people (and the mindset in MS seems to be) who were like "we can't lynch anyone else" or "do not derail the wagon". For me it looks like it can just as easily be that he thinks "where ever i put my vote (without a real case) it doesn't matter". Do you disagree that is not a possibility?

but you are saying it makes Hapa's town. Which is ridiculous.

It's not. That's what mafia usually do. Try to make people do stuff that gets blamed on them (in this case hapa mislynch) instead of you.
+ the quote, of the quote is so good.

and while you're saying "I am not saying it makes you scum lol.", you're spending quite a lot of time giving hints to that direction. And that started to change Cass' read for example.

Afaik Cass doesn't read you scum because i said you are scum because of what Hawk did (as i haven't said so so it's impossible). If Cass thinks one of you and Hapa is scum and my posting influences her to think it's more likely you than Hapa, then i am happy, because i feel the same way.

[Rels]

"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
BUT IF RELS WAS SCUM HAWK SURE HAD A GOOD SCUM GAME RIGHT GUYYYYYS

[Rels]

Hapa / OOO

[Rels]

Game over

[outoforder]

I don't care Rels, if you wanna perceive/put it that way then you do. But i literally don't care because i am not doing that.
Lynch me then, i dare you!

[cassielle]

and while you're saying "I am not saying it makes you scum lol.", you're spending quite a lot of time giving hints to that direction. And that started to change Cass' read for example.

horse shit

i read everything like the person saying it has an agenda
because they DO
for example: in the quoted post im responding to, your agenda is to discredit OOO by making it look like his scumread of you is secret, you cast doubt on hapa as town, and you want to reinforce yourself as a town read in opposition to hapa

the hapa town read is based on a semantic slip of hawks, not OOO's agenda (which was not aimed at me there but rather just sharing information -- check the tone of his post, he wants to put out the cool idea he just had, he isn't thinking how it will be received)


now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

[Rels]

Hawk does spend a lot of time discrediting the Hap push though. See "

Rels and OoO are off playing Mafia on TL forums and responding with meta alignments and indications I wanna vomit at how much all of their case against Hapa initially was noise and I couldn't dig into it myself

" in 659. He also votes both Kop and KidAmn when they were counterwagons to Hap but never actually votes Hap himself despite saying he's suspicious of him.

As mafia, why would you want to be on a mislynch wagon? He never also says "no, do not lynch Hapa! He is town!".
For me it looks like he realizes (incorrectly) that people are most likely going to lynch Hapa (especailly since @ post 888 which you initially quoted) there are already people (and the mindset in MS seems to be) who were like "we can't lynch anyone else" or "do not derail the wagon". For me it looks like it can just as easily be that he thinks "where ever i put my vote (without a real case) it doesn't matter". Do you disagree that is not a possibility?

I thought you knew the entire thread ?
If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?
If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

[cassielle]

"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
"I am not saying it makes you scum lol."
BUT IF RELS WAS SCUM HAWK SURE HAD A GOOD SCUM GAME RIGHT GUYYYYYS

now, boys and girls, time for one of those Famous Cassielle Teaching Moments

tell me, what does a scumslot do if its been guiltied by a confirmed cop?

and what do we see before us?

[outoforder]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. In fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels. That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

[Rels]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. I

n fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels.

That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

This is the retarded part. I cannot believe you can believe that. It doesn't make sense. At all. And apparently you're making this judgement call without even rechecking everything since you asked Cass for posts. That makes no sense

[outoforder]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

[Rels]

They is the inverse mindset.
"Scum is not voting X but is voting every other wagon available"
This is the original information.
"X is scum". Makes sense. That's the straight up way, trying to protect his teammate.
"Nothing can be said abou it". Makes sense too. That's the WIFOM way, maybe scum is hoping X gets mislynched.
"X is more likely to be town". That makes no sense.

[outoforder]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. I

n fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels.

That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

This is the retarded part. I cannot believe you can believe that. It doesn't make sense. At all. And apparently you're making this judgement call without even rechecking everything since you asked Cass for posts. That makes no sense

Why so? What makes my posts contradictional from the thought process you think i am having?
See this is why your stance on fitz was so fucking fishy. Now you're doing (or trying to look like you are doing) what i would expect you to do if you're town.

[Rels]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

[Rels]

[quote="In post 1607
now, that aside: @OOO, BV has a point that hawk avoided the hapa wagon like demon-possessed plague
theres two narratives here:
1: hapa is scum that hes trying to derail from off wagon, and he faked a slip for distancing if he gets lynched
2: hapa is town and hawk was pushing from off wagon for towncred from vca, and he made a genuine slip

which feels more likely to you?

I can't tell from that only. But think about if a mafia dude said something about you that "makes you their partner". How do you ever defend yourself as town? Because you can't, as you are not the person whose actions are considered. I hate those kind of reads because mafia occasionally do that and if town buys it there is nothing you can do about it, and it's retarded imo, you are judged based on someone else's actions.

I am not saying what Hawk has ever said makes Rels mafia, however much he wants to yell that to ppl. I am saying (and answering BV) that i don't think Hawk's actions make Rels town, as he suggests. I

n fact they make Hapa more likely town than Rels.

That's what i think, if someone wants to sue me for it i don't care, i am just writing what i think is the truth here.

This is the retarded part. I cannot believe you can believe that. It doesn't make sense. At all. And apparently you're making this judgement call without even rechecking everything since you asked Cass for posts. That makes no sense

Why so? What makes my posts contradictional from the thought process you think i am having?
See this is why your stance on fitz was so fucking fishy. Now you're doing (or trying to look like you are doing) what i would expect you to do if you're town.

First, you're making calls without rereading the exact stuff, which is EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID YOU HATED
Second, you're saying "Flipped scum has a scummy behaviour towards X so X is more likely town". NO. X can be town or X can be scum, it's WIFOM if you want at the very best.