Mini Normal 1890 - Endgame

Boonskiies · Post Post #125 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:26 am

Like actually, you aren't getting lynched anytime soon. If it even nears it, I would be scrapping against the people on that wagon because that's just dumb.

TwoFace · Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:40 am

In post 122, Cooperative Sheep wrote:What do you think of my attack on Magna at the moment? I feel like his answers continue to slightly dance the issue, it makes me want to lynch him. Do you see that, or do you think I'm making stuff up, or what?

I still haven't see anything from him that reads town. Everything reads scum trying to look town. That's why I wanted him to self vote so boon would hammer. He didn't which leads me to think he's scum also

-Grey- · Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:45 am

I wonder if 2F is scum here.

I was expecting some sort of vendetta vote against me. Him avoiding me feels like scum dodging confrontation.

TwoFace · Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:02 am

Why would I vendetta vote you? Just cause I don't think you're a good player doesn't mean I'm going to vote you. Besides I'd rather lynch my scum read, which is what I'm trying to do.

keyenpeydee · Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:03 am

Are you scumreading me 2f?

TwoFace · Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:05 am

In post 129, keyenpeydee wrote:Are you scumreading me 2f?

You are null.

Barleycorn · Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:05 am

boon - ik. i just know i can't put the effort into the game that's required.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #132 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:07 am

In post 122, Cooperative Sheep wrote:So what I'm getting from this is that you disagree with his assessment of the slot.
How does that make what he did a scum action as opposed to a town whose meta read of a given player you disagree with?
Because the only theory I can even see would require both of them to be scum, and the one you didn't vote being the more required of the pair, yeah?

Scum have this little thing call being the informed minority. You might have heard of it. Who is in the best position to talk against what they think can be framed as a bad wagon / action / pressure what have you? Scum. Town don’t know for certain that the player isn’t scum on page 1. Speaking out strongly isn’t going to backfire on Scum (and yes, I’m ignoring Multiball concerns for the moment) and make them look bad. Is it a smoking gun? Of course not. But for page 2 it’s certainly enough to press on.

Also – a single game instance is not meta. Furthermore meta as used on MS is pretty much junk. So framing that as “a Town meta read” is just bad.

In post 122, Cooperative Sheep wrote:It's an emotional reaction, as either town or scum he was feeling the feels.
I, frankly, vibed it as more town than scum, so I can't really judge someone who read it the other way as I think it's probably a gut reaction to read emotion.

Um no. Town losing a member to lynch Day 1 is overall less damaging to their odds of winning the game than it is for Scum. That’s basic Mafia. So that strong of an emotional reaction when he wasn’t anywhere near on the line for lynch is far too overwrought. Unless Barley is just a terrible player but he’s said he isn’t and wasn’t willing to talk about who his main was to shed light on it. The fact that he is still floating around and saying he "can't make the effort" doesn't make me feel too wrong on that count.

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In post 126, TwoFace wrote:I still haven't see anything from him that reads town. Everything reads scum trying to look town. That's why I wanted him to self vote so boon would hammer.
He didn't which leads me to think he's scum also

This is probably scum … either that or just god-awful play. I mean the bolded is basically a ticket back to Road to Rome …

TwoFace · Post Post #133 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:11 am

Somebody give magna some peanut butter to go with all that jelly.

TwoFace · Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:14 am

Had you self voted there you would have proven you aren't afraid of getting lynched and would have basically been near confirmed town in my eyes barring a magna/boon team.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:24 am

In post 134, TwoFace wrote:Had you self voted there you would have proven you aren't afraid of getting lynched and would have basically been near confirmed town in my eyes barring a magna/boon team.

Bullshit.

VOTE: TwoFace

Self-voting is never a reason to Town read someone. Period. The only reason you should ever self-vote is to prevent a no-lynch that hurts Town by robbing them of information if you are not a useful role. Your "I would think you were near confirmed Town" is either a garbage argument from a bad Town player or scum looking to justify their weak scum read. But since you are "so good" I'll just assume scum ...

TwoFace · Post Post #136 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:32 am

In post 132, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Scum have this little thing call being the informed minority. You might have heard of it. Who is in the best position to talk against what they think can be framed as a bad wagon / action / pressure what have you? Scum. Town don’t know for certain that the player isn’t scum on page 1. Speaking out strongly isn’t going to backfire on Scum (and yes, I’m ignoring Multiball concerns for the moment) and make them look bad. Is it a smoking gun? Of course not. But for page 2 it’s certainly enough to press on.

Da fuck is this garbage? Please don't tell people to go back to newbie games if you turnout to be town and posted this crap.

Town talk about bad wagons all the time, even as early as page 1/2. It's a crap reason to push on and you are experienced enough to know that. So you acting like you don't know that is why you need rope. You are near confirmed scum to me now.

TwoFace · Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:35 am

In post 135, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 134, TwoFace wrote:Had you self voted there you would have proven you aren't afraid of getting lynched and would have basically been near confirmed town in my eyes barring a magna/boon team.
Bullshit.

VOTE: TwoFace

Self-voting is never a reason to Town read someone. Period. The only reason you should ever self-vote is to prevent a no-lynch that hurts Town by robbing them of information if you are not a useful role. Your "I would think you were near confirmed Town" is either a garbage argument from a bad Town player or scum looking to justify their weak scum read. But since you are "so good" I'll just assume scum ...

Yeah no way this is town.

-Grey- · Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:40 am

In post 128, TwoFace wrote:Why would I vendetta vote you? Just cause I don't think you're a good player doesn't mean I'm going to vote you. Besides I'd rather lynch my scum read, which is what I'm trying to do.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69727 - scum win
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69517 - successfully drew the NK with cop crumb as VT
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69360 - on scum lynch d1 (replaced out due to mod error, showing unredacted role pm, which I pointed out to Aero to maintain game integrity)
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69704 - strong-armed a scum lynch d1, on two scum lynches before I died n2
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69960 - won as scum
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=69221 - replaced in, hammered scum based off two pages, and got NK'ed.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69502 - derpclaimed because I thought I was in a different game in the newbie queue (not my best moment for sure)
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69859 - admittedly an off game
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69831 - pulled out a scum win after my entire fucking team suicided
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69833 - just as bad as everybody else
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69882 - bulldozed a townie that pegged me early as scum into backing off for the entire game; won as scum
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69849 - replaced out early, doesn't count for much other than to say my slot wasn't suspected until I was gone
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70094 - I played Judas beautifully, I was pretty much lockdown. My only sin was attributing the only successful werewolf kill in the game to bring a vig shot (had no idea it was multiball)
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69916 - mislynched in 3-way LyLo after being on and pushing to lynches on scum
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=69418 - not great play, I wasn't invested in the game due to the prevalence of mech talk
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69822 - early replace out for reasons, mozamis griped at me in post-game for replacing out because I was the strongest member of the scum team.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69444 - successfully fished the n1 NK as a VT. Again.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69550 - won as scum

VOTE: Two Face

Tell me more about what a bad player I am.

TwoFace · Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:44 am

You're a bad player.

Cooperative Sheep · Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:15 am

In post 132, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Scum have this little thing call being the informed minority. You might have heard of it. Who is in the best position to talk against what they think can be framed as a bad wagon / action / pressure what have you? Scum. Town don’t know for certain that the player isn’t scum on page 1. Speaking out strongly isn’t going to backfire on Scum (and yes, I’m ignoring Multiball concerns for the moment) and make them look bad. Is it a smoking gun? Of course not. But for page 2 it’s certainly enough to press on.

Your concept, if I understand it correctly, is only scum is likely to have been able to assess that the wagon was 'bad' and so he white knighted sorta/revealed his inside information with too strong of a stance?

In post 132, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Also – a single game instance is not meta. Furthermore meta as used on MS is pretty much junk. So framing that as “a Town meta read” is just bad.

I didn't say whether it was quality or non-quality meta, I said he presented a meta read - and that is objectively factual whether or not you agree with it.

In post 132, MagnaofIllusion wrote:The fact that he is still floating around and saying he "can't make the effort" doesn't make me feel too wrong on that count.

I do give you agreement points here.

@Two-Face - I agree with Magna, willingness to die is not actually a good town playstyle. You're supposed to make scum fight for those mislynches, not play along with them.

Boonskiies · Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:20 am

In post 131, Barleycorn wrote:boon - ik. i just know i can't put the effort into the game that's required.

then why wouldn't you out before the game started? sigh...

Barleycorn · Post Post #142 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:31 am

good question and that's my bad. self-imposed ban for at least a couple months.

TwoFace · Post Post #143 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:38 am

In post 140, Cooperative Sheep wrote:@Two-Face - I agree with Magna, willingness to die is not actually a good town playstyle. You're supposed to make scum fight for those mislynches, not play along with them.

It's not willingness to die. It's not being afraid of it.

TwoFace · Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:42 am

Now I disagree with magna' original reasons for his push but he seemed to believe them. His vote change to me is bad because he just flushed that conviction down the toilet for even worse reasoning.

That's why I'm saying without a shadow of a doubt magna is scum. He gave up something he believed in for something non AI. Town just doesn't do that.

TwoFace · Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:43 am

Or at least they shouldn't...

keyenpeydee · Post Post #146 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:03 pm

sigh

TwoFace

-Grey- · Post Post #147 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:07 pm

In post 144, TwoFace wrote:Now I disagree with magna' original reasons for his push but he seemed to believe them. His vote change to me is bad because he just flushed that conviction down the toilet for even worse reasoning.

That's why I'm saying without a shadow of a doubt magna is scum. He gave up something he believed in for something non AI. Town just doesn't do that.

Oh look, a scum post.

Your read on magna is a crock of shit, because scum can't believe their pushes.

TwoFace · Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:31 pm

Well if you're not scum at least you consistently have shitty/wrong opinions

TwoFace · Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:38 pm

In post 147, -Grey- wrote:because scum can't believe their pushes.

Btw this actually confirmed what I'm saying.

If he was town who believed strongly in his push (which his posts imply they did) he wouldn't have abandoned them for something non AI (which he did)

Secondly scum can absolutely believe in their pushes. thats the best way to play as scum, push things that you know are scummy, things you would push as town.

The goal is to get town to think you're being genuine and the best way to do that is to actually be genuine.