BIOCHEMISTRY - game over, finally, it's only been 5 months

[Ankamius]

Lol?

[Rick and Andrea]

Ank/Moi/Bee/R&R/???
This feels good to me right now on a full catch up
~Andrea

[Ankamius]

Feel free to go into why me scumreading BYF is apparently enough for everyone's scumreads on me to make sense.

[Rick and Andrea]

You're pushing very obv town meta aside it seems like you want to go for easy targets your Moi townread comes out of no where for very bad reasoning that you should've questioned on more if you were town you have been very lackluster my townreads also think you're scum overall I'm feeling really good on you
holy shit a read I didn't have to make up to feel like I knew what I was doing WOO GO MARI-Andrea
~Andreqa

[Ankamius]

I was already town reading MoI and I've only played with BYF once.

Who would you consider easy targets and who not? The amount of active people that aren't widely townread is high enough that its not a very reasonable angle to go on. Plus I have enough outs to go after people that are actually scum reading me and I decided to keep throwing them aside in favor of someone pretty much not on the radar at all.

So...?

[BigYoshiFan]

*cringes*
I want to townread you so bad Maria.... it's such a bad habit I have to townread people who townread me. You sound so sincere though.

[BigYoshiFan]

I was already town reading MoI and I've only played with BYF once.

Who would you consider easy targets and who not? The amount of active people that aren't widely townread is high enough that its not a very reasonable angle to go on. Plus I have enough outs to go after people that are actually scum reading me and I decided to keep throwing them aside in favor of

someone pretty much not on the radar at all.

So...?

I don't like this choice of words. It emphasizes your scumread on me coming from my inactivity. If that is what your scumread on me is for (sorry, just skimming over posts at this points), then I'd like to testify it's validity.

[BigYoshiFan]

BYF isn't scum for being inactive. Don't put words in my mouth.

Ah, nevermind.

[BigYoshiFan]

I haven't figured out why I'm scummy to you, Ank. Care to share? I'm not sure how you expect everyone to subliminally agree with you without elaborating.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

When me and Maria agree this confidently on a read the stars align.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Actually catching up tonight. On page 4, but is Vifam like Not_Mafia because so far his posts are like eating a doughnut but the only thing you bit into was the air inside the ring?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nevermind there's content posting at the bottom of the page

[Vifam]

This feels like PYP Vifam not Smackdown
~Andrea

PYP?

[Vifam]

Actually catching up tonight. On page 4, but is Vifam like Not_Mafia because so far his posts are like eating a doughnut but the only thing you bit into was the air inside the ring?

???????????????????


It was literally the RVS stage

[Vifam]

Ank/Moi/Bee/R&R/???
This feels good to me right now on a full catch up
~Andrea

MoI seems town to me

I do agree that he tends to harp on little things, but he was doing that in Spyro and he flipped town.

[Vifam]

Still feel like R&R is town too but it's starting to decrase over time


There more recent pushes on Creature feel really half baked and almost as if they've reserved themselves into a mode where they can safely tunnel and do nothing else and be ok with it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Vecna is town
Creature is town
Cheetory lean town
Voices by far my strongest scumread

Vote: Voices

Who is Cheetory?

Also what made you produce this list when you were at this point in time because so far I disagree with the Creature read as he coughed up an excuse to lurk(which is a always a red flag for me)

As for Voices, esplain because I didn't see you mention or interact with them before this post.

Tho I gotta give you credit for is your Vecna read because I liked his entrance. caveat to that is I want more from his 196 if he didn't expand on it later on. Looks to be that he had issue; or at least something pinged to him about the word "rhetorical" being used. If it's AI to him, I want to know, if it's not, I want to know why he brought it up.

[Majiffy]

Oh you want mine

Idk yeah I'll get around to it tomorrow or something. Remind me.

Yeah at the time Creature objected.

Majiffy aside from Creature who do you think is scum

You're possible.
Dayne's getting likelier by the minute.
Gork's a maybe.
No idea on Nahdia or Mastina yet.

[mastina]

she would have given me a full page report on the game because she's freaking out someone can read her like a book joined in.

That would require me to have actually read the thread.

My report on the game right now would be:
"...We've had talking. The talking hasn't been productive. We've had LOTS of talking. The talking continues to happen a lot. It also isn't showing signs of being productive. Words have been said. People have reads. Many people have clashing reads. That's about it".

Which I suppose from a certain point of view would be technically true?

[Majiffy]

Mastina hold still

[Majiffy]

Read this then vote Creature. TIA

[mastina]

GT, how DO you read Mastina as a book?

It's really not that hard. I win when scum not by keeping people from scumreading me--but by keeping people from lynching me even when they scumread me. For further details, refer to the flowchart.

Here, for your reading pleasure, might as well quote this.

I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.

Actually...I have.

I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".

Spoiler: Stuff about it

The flowchart, while half a year old in its latest version, still applies more than it doesn't, by the way.
I'll condense it down for you, though:
If Mastin is scum, accept the loss; she's going to win regardless of what you do. So treat her like town.
If Mastin is town, then she is town. Treat her as town. If she wants to be listened to, listen to her and trust her instincts. If she doesn't tell you to listen to her, take her words with a grain of salt; they're reads but not solid ones.
BAM.
You now know how to treat Mastin.
Will work out for you nearly every single game.

Summary. I think I realized my problem with Mastin. Her reads are changing very quickly and they're moving on a very, very wide scale.

Helpful hint, you have absolutely no reason to trust me on this right now, but this is a MASSIVE towntell for me. On the "how to read Mastin: the flowchart" I made (I need to track down the most up-to-date version), it's one of the primary items, in fact. The reason? Town Mastin doesn't have a clue what's going on. Her reads are in a state of constant flux, specifically because of that, and her own self-doubt, paranoia, and whatnot betrays her, as she constantly second-guesses herself and reevaluates, rethinks, and redoes stuff. In contrast, scuMastin has absolute control of the game. Whereas town-Mastin is defined by inconsistency, scuMastin is defined by consistent, solid, controlled, calculated play. She keeps the same reads as much as possible, because it serves to antagonize the least number of players. She is calm, collected, and cool. She is strategic. She is focused. Her thoughts are logical and precise, because she has a good handle on the game, and thus, her mind does not betray her.

Or in short, the difference between town and scum is the difference between chaos and order. Now, obviously, this isn't absolute. There have been towngames where I've felt in control, rare as they may be. There have been scumgames where I was chaotic, either by circumstances or in one or two cases me faking my town chaos convincingly. But it IS a fairly solid general guideline. I know what I'm doing as scum; I'm just taking my best guess and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks as town.

I bet she has quite a few "playstyles" (and she knows, I think, why I'm saying this.)

Indeed I do. Fairly certain I said so already in this game, too, the reason why: because my play in games is fluid, thanks to situational awareness. While I might not know what's going on as town, I can generally feel out the game and have an idea for what will work best, adapting to have a playstyle specific to that game. It's mildly helpful, since it lets me hone in on scum better, but situational awareness mostly helps me as scum, because as scum, adapting my play to the game when I have more info than my town self does is

lethally

effective.

Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.

I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.

Right, that's another one I need to add in.

How To Read Mastin

:

Are you zMuffinman?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you AngryPidgeon?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?

Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.

Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?

Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.

THE FLOWCHART:

Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.

Does Mastin look town?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.

Trust her as town.

What does she do?

Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.

Suddenly pressure her.

What does she do?

Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.

Is she posting up a storm?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she waffling...
...A lot?

Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she antagonizing everyone?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she irrational?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she spewing random illogical theories?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does her posting look intentional?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.

Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is her tone flat?

No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

(BONUS:

If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of the

current

gamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?

No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)

And finally...

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.

Is Mastin's posting wildly inconsistent?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
No-->Proceed.)

(Oh, and I think rambling in-thread's already there*, but if not, it should be.)
*Relies on scum having daychat. Scum have daychat, in-thread rambling = decent towntell. Scum don't have daychat, rambling = prob-null, maybe slight townlean. Scum daychat ambiguous, assume slight townlean.

(Oh, should be noted. Last scum, rambling in-thread gets upgraded to major towntell, since scuMastin typically keeps rambles to the scum QT about why she's screwed.)

Totally should just, in general, take this policy about me.
There's a flowchart that I plan to publish that will give better tells for reading me in general, some of which are timeless, others which are in contemporary site meta, but valuable all the same. Until it's actually published, though, the general policy I have on reading me is, increasingly, becoming:

Just assume I'm town until you have a REALLY solid reason not to. You'll be right the VAST majority of the time, by sheer probability alone.

(In fact, beyond probability. Probability says I should be scum a minimum of 25% of the time. 2014's been something like half that overall.)

It'll save you a BUNDLELOADS of headaches.

(Should be noted that my record was 34 games IN A ROW as town and my scumgame remains STILL below statistical probability in numbers.)

"If you're townreading Mastin, lynch her. She's scum, having successfully predicted your movements and is manipulating you. You fell into her trap, hook, line, and sinker.
If you're scumreading Mastin, she's town; save her from the lynch. She's probably either really onto something or really lost. In either case, she needs your help, either to sheep her or help her develop more accurate reads."

Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.

(Note of course that the flowchart is never 100% accurate. It's impossible, literally impossible, to display all of them in a single game since many of them are in fact slightly contradictory, but the point is to see as many as possible and if the majority matches town or scum. This chart has been in play for quite a while, now, and to this date, in spite of no active attempts to uphold it and some attempts as scum to subvert it, remains highly relevant to my play. It goes to prove my point, though: scuMastin always has this laser-like focus. Anything Goes in particular, until I faked having my confidence shattered, I was pushing for a specific lynch. In games like Resistance where I was the last living scum in lylo, I wove a narrative specific to one player being scum because I held focus. In my entire scumgame career, holding focus has done nothing but serve me well. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. Because guess what? People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a lynch. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to mislynch anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. So damn fucking straight. Maybe someday I'll flail as scum. It could in theory be this game. But in practice? Fuck no. As scum I'd push a lynch through; as town, here I am without a clue.)

(I really need to also add a section in there about explicitly blowing up.
I don't think I've ever thrown f-bombs around as scum freely, aside from some trolling in L4D when I literally claimed scum in-thread once I realized Molla had a guilty on me.
As town, you'll note, I go absolutely ballistic, and for damn fucking good reason. Lynching me has never done a town favors, ESPECIALLY not in the lategame.)

^That's how. ('Course, the flowchart was developed for single-ball games. I actually have no clue myself how well it does or doesn't hold up in multiball.)

(I just realized that an item not on the flowchart but which should be is how I explain my reads:
"Does she explain her reads in crystal clarity?
No-->Almost certainly town, though you can proceed as a precaution just in case.
...Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
Yes-->Proceed.")

Not included: "Is she doing anything?"
Yes-->Well, go read what she's doing, dummy!
No-->She's probably fighting a flake.

Doesn't tell you alignment, but is useful to have on there anyway.

Frankly this game is probably the closest game I've had all year to textbook traditional mastina play.

[Majiffy]

My flowchart's better.

And it's less reading.




I love the poorly educated

[mastina]

No, but I am a replacement in a game with Firebringer AND MagnaofIllusion, both players who tend to take issue with me and would rather not have had me replace in--so it's treading on eggshells for me to try to be on my best behavior and yet still function as a player.

There's a grand total of seven players who so much as could be scum--MoI/Creature/Marquis/Rick/Majiffy/VoT/Yoshi; everyone else is town.
This, not even going into whether the players actually are scum. (For instance, you I heavily lean against.)

Look – more mastin bullshit. Oh I’m worried about how Rick and Andrea / MoI will react to me so I’m being careful. Meanwhile both these players are in the pool of fucking 7 players who could only be scum. Yes that’s right … mastin has a pool that is 4/7 scum and is worried about offending two of the players in that fucking pool.

It is specifically

because

you are in the pool that I need to tread carefully, MoI.

If I was townreading you, there would be no issue. If you townread me and I townread you we could effectively leave it at that and ignore each other entirely. It's day one, so it's not like we'd be likely to ever need to work together, so no repeat of Steven Universe 2. No treading on eggshells, no special measures needed, because nothing I say matters/would be relevant to you, and likely vice-versa too.

...But because I'm

not

townreading you (though you apparently are townreading me), there IS the issue. Because I'm not townreading you, there's treading on eggshells because there's the whole awkwardness of the situation. It's unpleasant, but also my fault, and something that therefore warrants caution.

[Titus]

Oh you want mine

Idk yeah I'll get around to it tomorrow or something. Remind me.

Yeah at the time Creature objected.

Majiffy aside from Creature who do you think is scum

You're possible.
Dayne's getting likelier by the minute.
Gork's a maybe.
No idea on Nahdia or Mastina yet.

If you're correct on Creature, I'd expect two scum in here.