Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

[mhsmith0]

^
anyone want to guess what's seriously wrong with the above post, and probably scum-indicative?

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count 1.15

Darklyn

(3): RadiantCowbells, lemonater, mhsmith0

mhsmith0

(2): mastina, DogWatch

mastina

(1): oldwino

-Grey-

(1): Darklyn

Not Voting

: Icy, -Grey-
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-03-15 06:05:00)

[lemonater]

Did you actually think through what he was saying and think it was reasonable, or did you do a "well I guess maybe you were right" just kind of shrug and agree?

Like, thinking from a general POV instead of your own is in fact the correct thing to do here, because it's not like you personally can control the lynch

More bad advice here, townies should be using their votes and influence to control a lynch as much as possible (otherwise scum will do it for them)

They should also nearly always remove themselves out of the equation and avoid being lynched if possible, their own death removes another voice from the town and they can't influence the game anymore

Thinking from the general perspective of the town is something scum is more likely to do, us vs them mentality.

Avoiding getting lynched as town isn't always possible, if it was surely town would just win 100% of the time, so I think it's better to include yourself in the equation

also that bolded part doesn't feel right, it feels more like an excuse to say oldwino is scum than anything

[-Grey-]

^
anyone want to guess what's seriously wrong with the above post, and probably scum-indicative?

*pokes head in*

I see a theory squabble, which doesn't look particularly NAI. What am I missing?

*leaves*

[mhsmith0]

So we have two guesses, which I guess is good enough even though neither hit the mark.

The issue here isn't that it's a theory squabble, it's that he's completely and utterly missed the point of what I was saying, to the point where it looks much more like he was simply looking for something to attack as opposed to trying to understand.

Essentially, what I was saying is that, in the case of oldwino's post 605, it made sense to think from a general POV when trying to make the point about what the odds are of hitting scum if you completely random lynch.
Darklyn completely twists that point around to argue as if somehow I was saying that oldwino should sit back, do nothing and not bother to try and contorl the lynch. It's a nonsensical interpretation of what i was saying, and suggestive of the idea that he simply wanted to attack my point (with the underlying "case" of my giving intentionally bad advice to players as part of some kind of scum strategy), as opposed to caring at all about what I was actually saying.

[mhsmith0]

PS It's especially nonsensical since we'd already had a back and forth where I'd made the point that people shouldn't just dump responsibility for driving the lynch onto a town clear.

[-Grey-]

The issue here isn't that it's a theory squabble, it's that he's completely and utterly missed the point of what I was saying, to the point where it looks much more like he was simply looking for something to attack as opposed to trying to understand.

I get where you're coming from and understand why you feel that way.

Sometimes, people are just argumentative for the sake of it. I know I am.

Is there something you think he stands to accomplish with this argument, if he's scum?

[-Grey-]

Would he being taking a different approach towards you as, say, confbiased town?

[mhsmith0]

The issue here isn't that it's a theory squabble, it's that he's completely and utterly missed the point of what I was saying, to the point where it looks much more like he was simply looking for something to attack as opposed to trying to understand.

I get where you're coming from and understand why you feel that way.

Sometimes, people are just argumentative for the sake of it. I know I am.

Is there something you think he stands to accomplish with this argument, if he's scum?

I think your objection here is reasonable; it's a poor scum strategy, presuming it is one. Best I can think of off the top of my head is that it's a distraction from the earlier point of "that's not a scumslip and it's incredibly obvious that it wasn't one"... but I'm not sure why he'd bother doing that either.

Maybe it's him trying to build back up to re-justifying a vote on me? Maybe it's just empty shade? Discrediting? idk, it's hard to really get in the headspace of him at this point.

Would he being taking a different approach towards you as, say, confbiased town?

Hmm. I feel like as a confbiased townie it'd come across differently? Like, there'd be more energy and emotion behind it, either if it was just a theory disagreement (where you'd see more care out of that, even if it was just a bridge to nowhere), or if he actually thought I was scum for it there'd be something substantive where it looked like he was invested in selling or developing that read.

instead of just comes across kinda like he's trying to figure out how to get back to a scum read on me for a theory disagreement and just awkwardly failing to figure out how to do it (I'm reading "Thinking from the general perspective of the town is something scum is more likely to do, us vs them mentality." in particular as a shading response to the "thinking from a general POV" bit).

[-Grey-]

Alright, I'm comfortable with that logic.

VOTE: Darklyn

L-1

[Darklyn]

Cba to wait for intent, worried oldwino might quickhammer
claiming Tracker

[PenguinPower]

FYI: I've had a family emergency and will be away from site from this afternoon through Thursday afternoon. Huntress will be modding in my absence. Please ensure to PM both myself and Huntress anything game related.

[oldwino]

@PP - Thoughts are with you and your family.


@ all - Sorry to see Dark had to claim. Damn. Hate to expose a second PR this early in the game.

I wouldn't quickhammer on D1. I may be naive, but not that naive. I would probably quickhammer to end a game when I am at least 50% sure hammering would fill my wincondition, but I can't envision any other time I'd quickhammer. If town, why not wait and see what else unfolds rather than make a mistake, which is likely? If scum, quickhammering would be a giveaway when the victim flipped town. Right? I'm looking to learn. Educate me, please.

If Dark had checked my only other game, I hammered on D1,

hammered Darkoz360 btw, weird, huh

? But I hammered only after giving everyone fair notice, hours and hours, to comment, to hammer themselves, or to withdraw their vote to avoid a lynch. He was at L1 a long time and the end of D1 was only a couple of hours away and it was late in my time zone. And that 'other Dark' was clearly suspicious with almost a consensus he was scum. He wasn't, of course, which is one reason I am so cautious and fence sit more than some players think is townlike.

BTW, what does cba mean? It's not in the mafia scum glossary.

I will be out most of today but will check in later in the afternoon and provide my best and latest thinking, and change my vote if there is good reason. Will come back early evening if we haven't lynched yet.

Still strongly suspect Mastina but also realize any of the unclaimed (except me, yes, LAMIST) could be scum. I could build a case for any of those six, but which case is strongest? I'll run through my logic when I have time later, if we aren't in N1 yet.

[Darklyn]

Cba: can't be asked

Most likely to least likely scum imo, might change when I do re-read
mhsmith0 > Radiant Cowbells > Dogwatch > lemonater > oldwino > mastina > Grey

[Darklyn]

UNVOTE:

Just a heads up we don't have too much time left, I'm a little worried because a lot of players are away

[mhsmith0]

Cba to wait for intent, worried oldwino might quickhammer
claiming Tracker

Not CC'ing. Ill unvote just to avoid a quickhammer I guess.
UNVOTE:

[mhsmith0]

I will note, fwiw, that tracker is the traditional scum fake claim in this setup on day one under pressure. That said we're not lynching there barring a cc.

[mhsmith0]

Mechanics note: if there's a cc of jailkeeper, then they need to tell us who they're jailing given a Roleblocker flip (if they die tonight, whoever they jailed is hard clear because they couldn't have shot - obviously don't jail icy in that event because a Roleblocker flip hard clears him). If there's a goon flip, then the bp claim gets jailed just in case it was a super ballsy fake claim.

[Icy]

VOTE: -Grey- stop being a baby

Cba: can't be asked

Most likely to least likely scum imo, might change when I do re-read
mhsmith0 > Radiant Cowbells > Dogwatch > lemonater > oldwino > mastina > Grey

Darllyn, I'm starting to have a problem with you. You vote Grey, his only posts sense are some back and forth with Smith, after which he brings you to L-1....you claim.... and then post that he is your most likely town !!!

[Darklyn]

3D chess

[Darklyn]

@Icy: you haven't even voted or done anything all game, you've got bigger problems than me

@mhsmith0: who do you want to lynch apart from me?

[-Grey-]

Cba: can't be asked

Actually, it's "can't be assed" (can't be bothered)

UNVOTE:

[-Grey-]

I will note, fwiw, that tracker is the traditional scum fake claim in this setup on day one under pressure. That said we're not lynching there barring a cc.

I'll go one step father and suggest the real tracker not cc until d2 if applicable.

[-Grey-]

Mechanics note: if there's a cc of jailkeeper, then they need to tell us who they're jailing given a Roleblocker flip (if they die tonight, whoever they jailed is hard clear because they couldn't have shot - obviously don't jail icy in that event because a Roleblocker flip hard clears him). If there's a goon flip, then the bp claim gets jailed just in case it was a super ballsy fake claim.

Again, day 2 cc is ideal.

Crumbing a target would be good, but it could also out the jailer if done clumsily.

[mhsmith0]

Mechanics note: if there's a cc of jailkeeper, then they need to tell us who they're jailing given a Roleblocker flip (if they die tonight, whoever they jailed is hard clear because they couldn't have shot - obviously don't jail icy in that event because a Roleblocker flip hard clears him). If there's a goon flip, then the bp claim gets jailed just in case it was a super ballsy fake claim.

Again, day 2 cc is ideal.

Crumbing a target would be good, but it could also out the jailer if done clumsily.

Nope. Day one mislynch plus day two fakeclaim = easy LYLO. We're not playing that game. Day one cc or he's cleared town.