Mini 1889: Greatest Idea Mafia (Endgame!)

[-Grey-]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[ThinkBig]

RC I will literally 1v1 you. We lynch you and I will happily be blood sucked tonight.

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Put your vote back on RC

[-Grey-]

No, he had his chance.

I'm only voting RC of he self-vote​s

[JerryArr]

The game is paused temporarily.

[JerryArr]

RadiantCowbells has requested replacement. In addition, 15 minutes have been added to the Day 2 deadline. The game is now unpaused, my apologies for the delay.

[ThinkBig]

Bye RC

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: Star

[-Grey-]

Anywho. Yeah.

Lynch Wheme. Vig RC slot. Find third if necessary tomorrow.

[ThinkBig]

Anywho. Yeah.

Lynch Wheme. Vig RC slot. Find third if necessary tomorrow.

Sounds good.

[boring]

Preface 1: I've been working on this for like 2 hours or so, and I'm not editing out tenses and whatnot for RC.

Preface 2: I will also say this for like the third time: You should be hunting as if there's only one scum left. Why? Because all we can know for sure is that there's at least one. Please, ignore pre-flip associations, and ignore "you're next" arguments. They are distractions. Just hunt for one. If the game isn't over when someone flips red, look for another. We've eliminated 2-3 scum already, and none of them faction-scum. The chances of the remaining scum having a buddy are less than 50/50.

Preface 3: Now, I know I promised something bigger, but the rapid-pace of the conversations has made ISO spelunking difficult. Instead, I'll just make a long reads list. I'm not a scum-hunting genius, and I probably have a lot to learn. In fact, this is my third town game here, and I didn't reach a second day in either of the other two. But I am not the worst analyst in the world, and I'm decent at reading people once I've had time to mull things over (I'm a slow-thinker). So here's how I see the players thus far:

LUV

- If he's scum, it'll shatter my icy heart. Unless he's trying something new, I don't believe he'd choose a scum role. He's playing exactly as he does in town games. If anyone is seeking a townblock, you might as well stick him in it.

RC

- The powers that be may have to change my status from "goon" to "naive twat" after this game, but I believe that RC is town. I think he's genuinely frustrated, and I think he's trying to help steer town in what he thinks is the right direction. I think that people are a little too eager to be on his wagon when they really have no reason to be. It suggests that scum are hopping a ride, and further indicates that he's town.

massive

- Has maintained a genuine feel to his play throughout the game. I see that his time on this site is, well, massive. So I realize this could be faked, but I doubt it.

-Grey-

- He's probably town, but I have two reservations: he's kept the aggression levels up, even though the opposition cooled considerably. If he's scum who's being townread for being explosive, it stands to reason that he'd keep it up for effect. I also don't like the sudden clinging to the "I claimed a unique card, I can't be scum" argument. I mean, that sounds exactly like the kind of thing I'd pull early in a game (because if you can pull it off [and someone else is kind enough to point it out] you've got a small boost). The odds are in favor of the gambit, too. 151 possible cards, and 13 are already flipped. That means about, what, 80% of the remaining cards are going unused/unseen? If you choose a unique card that people are fairly likely to discard (like cop lover), your 1-in-5 odds of being cc'd decrease even more.

Drixx

- I'm still wanting to delay judgement on Drixx. I've seen him use odd reasoning before (I really don't see the 1v1 argument, despite trying to explain it to us like three times). In my first game, he somehow reasoned that since I was least likely to be scum, I was the best lynch choice going into lylo. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm just suggesting that it's NAI for him (or even a town-tell? again, I've never seen a confirmed scum!Drixx). If he's a cop, we'll know more tomorrow.

Keyser Soze

- He's done a lot of busy work. Without votes, I'm having a hard time figuring out what he's thinking and where he's standing. I've seen a lot of neutral statements and game-solving-like questions, but I've not seen what

I

think of as a proportionate level of output. I also think people are demotivated to interact with him because there's no threat. He's not going to vote, so it doesn't matter. I don't think this alone makes him scum, but I don't see this as an effective town-strategy. The choice to continue something that's sub-optimal may indicate non-town motivation. I don't think he's the ideal lynch today, but I don't know if I'll feel that way tomorrow.

Wraith

- His redemption is the underdog cc. Literally everything else (his reads, his off-and-on AtE, the staged feel eminating from his votes) has been screaming "scum" at me on a near-constant basis. Enough people consider him conf-town (or near to it), that he's likely to be a scum NK (if there are any scum with this ability among our numbers). So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

WhemeStar

- It's worrisome to me that Grey pointed out basically all of my concerns with his play. Massive identified the rest. I don't like that his activity is almost exclusively confined to defending himself. I don't think there's been an original thought or motion brought forward by him at all.

ThinkBig

- He's been very shady. He jumped straight into the Grey v. RC dynamic, insisted that one had to be scum, and kept his vote on the underdog. He swung back and forth between calling them toxic, and acting like a crony. He made the right scum choice to agree with Grey, because Grey won't turn on him as long as he's obeying.

[-Grey-]

He made the right scum choice to agree with Grey, because Grey won't turn on him as long as he's obeying.

Not entirely true.

I'll get my utility out of the slot, and then read it objectively.

That's just good play.

[-Grey-]

I also don't like the sudden clinging to the "I claimed a unique card, I can't be scum" argument.

You weren't around when the RC vs. Grey was at it's apex, so don't judge what you don't know.

When you're facing off against someone like RC, that is potent ammunition because he can't really argue the validity of it regardless of his alignment due to the sheer mechanical truth involved.

Ever hear the old saying, "any port in a storm"? Unique alignment card + first to claim = one hell of a port when one is in an RC scumread storm because even scum!RC can't ignore it without jeopardizing his own neck.

[boring]

You weren't around when the RC vs. Grey was at it's apex, so don't judge what you don't know

I was, in fact, reading it in real time. I just didn't see the point in throwing myself in it (plus, I'm clearly a much slower poster than the youth). I regret my decision now because I would have preferred that RC stayed.

Regardless, that was a schoolyard argument. The whole conversation is on record for everyone to judge, and we can all read timestamps.

You simply aren't cleared by your "I claimed a unique card first" argument.

[-Grey-]

You simply aren't cleared by your "I claimed a unique card first" argument.

If that were true, RC would have been the first to point it out. He had plenty of incentive to do so, considering he was supposedly scumreading me.

It's an inarguable fact that being the first player to claim, period, makes it suicidal for me to lie about my alignment card when there are no other cards like it because if somebody else had ACTUALLY drawn that card, OH NOEZ I'M DEAD!

This logic is fairly basic. You just don't want to write me off as town because I'm not the Mr. Rogers type that plays the stereotypical town game and I get that, but don't talk theory when you don't know wtf you're talking about.

Even RC didn't contradict me. And he had all the reason in the world to. And he has tons of theory knowledge.

[Drixx]

Drixx

- I'm still wanting to delay judgement on Drixx. I've seen him use odd reasoning before (I really don't see the 1v1 argument, despite trying to explain it to us like three times). In my first game, he somehow

CORRECTLY

reasoned that since I was least likely to be scum, I was the best lynch choice going into lylo. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm just suggesting that it's NAI for him (or even a town-tell? again, I've never seen a confirmed scum!Drixx). If he's a cop, we'll know more tomorrow.

FTFY. I'm totally fine with people underestimating me

[Drixx]

By the way... RC has not, to my knowledge, ever tactically replaced out of a game as scum. That kind of makes the replace out harmful to the game, imo.

[-Grey-]

If you choose a unique card that people are fairly likely to discard (like cop lover), your 1-in-5 odds of being cc'd decrease even more.

By the by, this is just horrible reasoning, lol.

Cop Lover not being discarded only means there's a dozen players than can possibly counterclaim my unique alignment card.

[-Grey-]

By the way... RC has not, to my knowledge, ever tactically replaced out of a game as scum. That kind of makes the replace out harmful to the game, imo.

I just view the replace out as NAI and play accordingly.

[-Grey-]

Does scum claim unique alignment cards? Sure... LAST! NOT FIRST!

[Drixx]

The Cop Lover claim

could

have been a gambit. God knows you're crazy enough to try that -Grey-. There's a wide difference between crazy like a fox and self-destructive crazy, and you strike me as a fox.

I get what you're saying about treating the replace out as NAI, but my brain won't let me dismiss the fact that RC doesn't tactically replace out as scum. That basically makes that slot almost as safe as yours.

[JerryArr]

boring has requested replacement.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

boring has requested replacement.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Now I really have no incentive to continue playing.

[-Grey-]

The Cop Lover claim

could

have been a gambit. God knows you're crazy enough to try that -Grey-. There's a wide difference between crazy like a fox and self-destructive crazy, and you strike me as a fox.

If I was one of the last to claim alignment cards,

maybe

. It's just plain suicide as the first.

I get what you're saying about treating the replace out as NAI, but my brain won't let me dismiss the fact that RC doesn't tactically replace out as scum. That basically makes that slot almost as safe as yours.

Treating that slot any differently DUE to the replace out

makes

it tactical regardless of the intentions behind it.

If, for example, you and RC we SCUM together (not saying you are, it's just an example), you using his replacing out to soft clear him would give your faction an advantage.

The only fair way to treat the slot is as if there had been no replace out at all.