Newbie 1781 - Game over

[Fykus]

I like how you're trying to distance yourself from scumbuddy lemon. I'd like for us townies to lynch rb first today so that newbscum lemon has to decide what to do with his night actions himself, rather than having experiencedscum rb find a good target.

[Tarkus]

I actually like that argument from rb. But why didn't you say that way earlier? I still think you should claim, because we're in too deep and I want to win this, but I agree with your stand philosophically.

[Tarkus]

rb why is sagittarius scummy? And sagittarius what do you think of lemon now?

[Loopdan]

I like how you're trying to distance yourself from scumbuddy lemon. I'd like for us townies to lynch rb first today so that newbscum lemon has to decide what to do with his night actions himself, rather than having experiencedscum rb find a good target.

^Fykus gets it.

[Fykus]

Loopdan (SE) (replaced Accountant)
Tarkus
Aatami
Creature (SE)
Sagittarius (replaced Handsome)
HighKingDestro
EccentricLemon (replaced Ulti)
rb (IC)

[rb]

Tbh I've never seen the BP claim thing Loopdan? In fact, how is this suddenly a thing you're insistent on when all of our previous newbie games together you haven't even suggested it at all?

Because it's a new strategy that was just recently proposed by RC and literally nobody has been able to show how it doesn't benefit town.

Allowing everyone else to claim not BP while you sat there not talking about it

at all

is very scummy. Now refusing to claim BP or not BP is even worse. If you are scum you have the benefit of hearing the claims of others without being forced to limit your own claims. It preserves your ability to fake-claim later.

You have until the end of your next post to either do the claim or satisfactorily explain how refusing to do so benefits town more than you claiming BP/no-BP.

I refuse to teach players that the way to play mafia is to focus their efforts on trying to break down setups as opposed to reading and interacting with other players. It's how a bunch of people on this site play, and they're almost unanimously shit players who have low impact in every game they play and are terrible to be on a team with as either alignment.

RC's an idiot for bringing the strategy up, and obviously matrix6 is now due for an overhaul so that we don't end up with another generation of setup-speccing deadweights to the site. It benefits the players of this game to not rely on it, it benefits the entirety of MafiaScum to not teach newbies to play with these dumb strategies that are specific to specific setups. Any setup specific enough to warrant this type of play will have it known. We don't need to teach players to use gimmicks and the town winrates in newbie games are already fine.

How about you tell me how using and relying on this strategy actually improves a Newbie's learning experience of mafia, since that's the point of these games? How is reducing a bunch of new players to passively observing a strategy play out a better first game experience than to have them focus the bulk of their attentions on learning how to create activity and scumhunt/avoid being found?

[Loopdan]

@Tykus-- You nailed it. rb can disagree with the strategy. That's fine. But it's not ok to watch everyone else claim if you disagree with it and you are town and you say nothing to stop it from progressing. There is no town motivation in that.

[Loopdan]

@rb-- I pretty much agree philosophically with everything you said in 305. But I'm still playing to my wincon.

[Fykus]

These discussions are best left for after the game or in some other discussion topic. Right now we're balls deep into day 1 with the bp claim strat already in place.

[rb]

lmao, you obviously don't understand me if you think I'd bend to some poor strategy just to appease the rest of the town. I've been force-replaced from games for my vitriol when presented with situations like this where I believe that the strategy being followed is just bad form i.e. it's a short-term exploit that no one really benefits from using, and degrades the quality of games overall.

[Loopdan]

And you shoulda brought all this up before you were pressed to claim.

[Tarkus]

Loopdan have you played with him before? Any chance he'd take a stand like this as town?

[Fykus]

I don't necessarily agree that it's right to go after rb for not supporting the BP claim thing. He's the IC, and the IC my last game tried their best to remain neutral and not get in the way of people trying different strategies. So he might not approve but not want to interfere. Idk if it's a universal IC thing or if it's just the one I happened to have. In any case, I want him to comment on it because there isn't much about it in his ISO. Personally, if I were to scumread him, it would be because of his complete certainty of players' alignments. Even being a seasoned player and the ISO doesn't excuse that kind of certainty in my book.

I keep getting confused between Tarkus and Fykus haha, they sound so similar.

What are everyone's thoughts on the tarkus vs Sagittarius debate?

I agree that it's most likely town v. town. Neither of them strike me as scum, really. I think Tarkus' questions are very valid and constructive and Sagittarius' analysis is pretty thought out.

I'd like a claim from you three on your next posts please or I'll start voting as if a non claim is an admission of being scum.

Not really a fan of this take-charge attitude or the missed statement in my post. Even if Fykus just skimmed my post, my not BP claim was the last thing in the post, so it wasn't hard to miss. I agree it was a bit long and dreary, but especially if he's so concerned with the whole BP claim thing he should at least be skimming posts for that. What I'm trying to say is I don't like how this means or at least makes it seem that Fykus didn't read that post, which he should have expected was going to answer to a lot of statements made toward me at a time when my play was under scrutiny.

This whole post basically outs lemons and rb as scum buddies and I don't think anything rb can do can seperate himself from it now. I could be wrong though, and lemons might actually be town (I'll know for sure tomorrow) but the way rb is acting at the moment makes me pretty certain we've nailed scum here. We still have 2 mislynches until LyLo so I think its a safe bet to get rid of rb today.

[Loopdan]

Sure there's a chance. But the most damning thing is rb's failure to speak up when others were claiming prior. Often in Newbie games the experienced players go out of their way to make sure the ne'er players don't claim unnecessarily. If he was really unfamiliar with this new day1 claiming strategy, and he was town, I would expect town!rb to make a ruckus about this much easier in the game when everyone was dropping their BP claims.

[Loopdan]

That's a reply to 311

[Loopdan]

@Fykus-- I am 100% on board with your thinking here.

[Tarkus]

You're both making a lot of sense right now, I like this theory.

[rb]

These discussions are best left for after the game or in some other discussion topic. Right now we're balls deep into day 1 with the bp claim strat already in place.

At the point the BP claim strat was first mentioned by me, only 2 people had claimed (that I saw).

It's false to say I ignored it - it's a strat I disliked, and that a lot of people were NOT following. I disagreed with it, and it seemed that it wasn't really going ahead.

The strat picked up again and was assigned an arbitrary value of importance by Loopdan when he first replaced in. We're 'balls deep' in it because the strategy is being pushed, when previously I thought it had just fizzled out.

This shifting of focus by Loopdan onto the 'nonclaimers' as if they've been deliberately avoiding it, is fake and contrived. If not for the fact that I'm pretty sure the scum is in Lemons/Destro/Sag, I'd probably just vote at him. But realistically I really doubt that we don't hit 1 scum in those 3, and if the 2nd is still alive, we know where it is.

This is how I've always solved games, by finding a lynch order based on scumteams that I find unbelievable/impossible, and narrowing it down to the remaining. It's unconventional, but in games with 9-14 players I'm uncannily accurate and have found entire scumteams in all but 1 micro that I've played (i have 14 games with 9-14 players).

Call me anti-wincon, but this is a strategy that I know can be emulated and learned by newer players, that will actually improve them as players. Not a dud gimmick that helps propel them to a meaningless win in their first game.

[rb]

Sure there's a chance. But the most damning thing is rb's failure to speak up when others were claiming prior. Often in Newbie games the experienced players go out of their way to make sure the ne'er players don't claim unnecessarily. If he was really unfamiliar with this new day1 claiming strategy, and he was town, I would expect town!rb to make a ruckus about this much easier in the game when everyone was dropping their BP claims.

No one was actually claiming when I first brought it up. 2 people had done it. This became a 'thing' only after your replace in, and this is the first chance I've had to reply to the game since that.

Again this is fake and contrived, and a misrepresentation of how the game's actually progressed.

[Loopdan]

7/9 slots had claimed before I ever showed up.
Try again.

[rb]

@Tykus-- You nailed it. rb can disagree with the strategy. That's fine. But it's not ok to watch everyone else claim if you disagree with it and you are town and you say nothing to stop it from progressing. There is no town motivation in that.

Haha ye ill post from my telepathic link that allows me to know whats happening in the game without actually having had time to read because I've had to either work or study.

ca$h me ousside howbow dat

[rb]

7/9 slots had claimed before I ever showed up.
Try again.

lolno

[Fykus]

I like your thinking rb and I'm intrigued to learn more about your strategy because in the only mini normal I played I failed horribly (as scum). Unfortunately me and you aren't batting on the same team this game so hopefully in the future I'll be able to play another game with you on your side. This isn't it though.

After the game I'll explain my reasoning for "pushing" the BP strat in the first place.

[Loopdan]

7/9 slots had claimed before I ever showed up.
Try again.

lolno

243
253
255

lolyes

[rb]

Kinda wish id just claimed BP to fuck with the game, but i know if i got lynched as town it sets a pretty shitty example as IC to lie as town and would be pretty demoralizing for the rest of the players and from a certain POV, anti-wincon.