Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Notice if I hypothetically lock you as Town then the PoE on this game just becomes incredibly easy because it locks 3 other slots as Town at the same time and I have 2-3 reads I'm not confident in outside of my scumpool.

I don't care, the rest of your reads are probably shit. There's a reason I have largely given up on this game. Town deserve to lose after ignoring every fucking attempt to right them. Like even after I stpe in to derail the bullshit Creature shit going on people are still questioning if he's mafia and vecna is still throwing obvious shade over that and no one is batting a fucking eyelid at the fact htat he's scum pissed that I've completely eliminated a mislynch from the table.

I dont think I have ever scumread creature btw. Im just giving him more respect than most in that he can pull of pretty convincing scumplay these days, and im not putting him as a complete townlock. I dont wanna lynch creature.

You're throwing shade over ME TOWNREADING CREATURE when I literally fucking gave my reasons and meta, you told me it wasn't recent enough meta, I watied for the game to end to give that, and you go "this is scum because didn't give reasons this is different" like fuck off as town you'd fucking read back to where you asked me for more recent meta.

[Vecna]

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

My point was you were shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the person who scumread you around. You removed that point because you thought you'd be keeping Titus around, then decided you could fucking ego wifom me about it. Guess what? You can't, I'm not falling for it. As soon as you realized that it was "oh hey convenient Notice scumread!" like I literally cannot see why you aren't already fucking swinging. Instead we lost someone I gave reasons for being town based off really fucking strong meta tells. Why was that? OH because they were townreading me.

Why was Frogger killed? Because he was going to tr me if it wasn't multiball
Why was beeboy lynched? To save the Yuri/Notice "associative tells" for later (which are absolute fucking bullshit because you always intended to carry through your sr on me regardless of what yuri flipped, same with whoever else you fucking paired me with)
Why was ABR lynched? Because I thought he might be town and he wasn't actively going me
Why was PV killed? I bet if I go through his ISO we can find he wasn't scumreading me either
Why was there no nightkill last night? because scum tried to kill Alisae to get rid of one of my biggest defenders

You have literally been shading and trying to lynch me since D1 because I've been onto you, scumfuck.

Notice, I made that point because I wanted to sort you.

Dont you see that from my point of view, its a very convenient excuse to suddenly 180 on your read on me after I started townreading you? (the Titus/Mathblade swap that is).

I wanted to see how you'd react if I took that away from you by giving you the truth.

Yes, I couldve done it as an ego thing as scum, but what would be the sense?

[Alisae]

I find mafia enjoyable when we lynch the bussers.

I mean sheep the bussers.
mybad.

[Alisae]

in all seriousness I'm gonna be out for most of the day and I have no idea if I'll have wifi where I'm going and even then I'll mostly be on an Ipad.

[nancy]

Like Notice I am actually willing at this point to just put you as Town because if the scumteam is SOMEHOW you MathBlade and whatever then we're fucked anyway and we're basically fucked as it is so banking on this is probably our best shot at winning.

Gorkington is Town because it makes no fucking sense for scum to come in today and suddenly bus one of their own after the kill getting docced or to let a lynch go through on him when they already have a vice grip on this game. Like basically as soon as we get one scumflip in this game the dominoes just fall.

[Vecna]

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

My point was you were shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the person who scumread you around. You removed that point because you thought you'd be keeping Titus around, then decided you could fucking ego wifom me about it. Guess what? You can't, I'm not falling for it. As soon as you realized that it was "oh hey convenient Notice scumread!" like I literally cannot see why you aren't already fucking swinging. Instead we lost someone I gave reasons for being town based off really fucking strong meta tells. Why was that? OH because they were townreading me.

Why was Frogger killed? Because he was going to tr me if it wasn't multiball
Why was beeboy lynched? To save the Yuri/Notice "associative tells" for later (which are absolute fucking bullshit because you always intended to carry through your sr on me regardless of what yuri flipped, same with whoever else you fucking paired me with)
Why was ABR lynched? Because I thought he might be town and he wasn't actively going me
Why was PV killed? I bet if I go through his ISO we can find he wasn't scumreading me either
Why was there no nightkill last night? because scum tried to kill Alisae to get rid of one of my biggest defenders

You have literally been shading and trying to lynch me since D1 because I've been onto you, scumfuck.

Ok, I honestly havent even considered any of this in the reasoning for the lynches/nightkills.

I have been noting that there have been a lot of random scumreads popping up on your slot. I havent paid those too much mind, since they were in line with my own reads at the time, but im willing to dig into this to actually get somewhere if you think this is whats happening.

Yes im willing to give you an olive branch. My suspicion is not gonna leave entirely, since you do appear to be VERY VERY aware of exactly whats going on in this game, but im definately interested in exploring this since it points to a rather devilishly clever scum-brain if your suspicions are accurate.

At any rate, its not me.

(also, I didnt want beeboy but ABR lynched D1, and it had nothing to do with you. Also I think you mightve just given me a hint I was supposed to pick up much earlier)

[Vecna]

Like Notice I am actually willing at this point to just put you as Town because if the scumteam is SOMEHOW you MathBlade and whatever then we're fucked anyway and we're basically fucked as it is so banking on this is probably our best shot at winning.

Gorkington is Town because it makes no fucking sense for scum to come in today and suddenly bus one of their own after the kill getting docced or to let a lynch go through on him when they already have a vice grip on this game. Like basically as soon as we get one scumflip in this game the dominoes just fall.

It wouldve made a lot of sense if Gork was roleblocked and that prevented the kill, but apparently its not at all what happened.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

{Aslan, Brian, Creature, MathBlade, Notice}
{Caesar, Gorkington, LUV}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}
{}
{CK, KidAmn, Leonshade}

If my reads are shit then work with me to fix them. The last time I asked for that you said no so what do you want from me? I've been trying all day to fix my reads and basically no one's done anything to help me figure shit out.

Is your read on Cloud based on Cloud or ssbm?

There's also very likely more than 3 mafia. I'm pretty sure Vecna is mafia which would make Maxous town because I don't think the back and forth with them was SvS. I thought Maxous was scum because of thinking Vecna had to be town but it's very likely I just fucked up on my read there. dave is town, just trust me on that one if you're town. I can't figure out if Nero is just bad and only hunting off "anti-town" stuff because of that or mafia hiding behind it. I have issues reading Nero but I think Alisae townreads him so... ehn.. not an avenue I would pursue unless through associations given that I think because I keep not being able to read him when I follow games as well.

Can you expand on Yurislot/Kid? You had them as obvtown for the D1 wagon earlier?

[Vecna]

At any rate Notice - It is not my intention to shade/agitate or ruin the game for you in any way. I think this little live debate has put a lot of stuff in a sensible place for me and im gonna try and work with these new pieces.

[nancy]

And btw with these wagons

Lynch Vote 4.12

Gorkington (7): Leonshade, Vecna, MathBlade, davesaz, Nero Cain, CloudKicker, Lil Uzi Vert
Leonshade (5): Brian Skies, NoticeMeSenpai, Gorkington, Alisae, nancy
davesaz (1): Maxous

Not Voting (3): KidAmn, Caesar Wills It, Creature


Scum have basically nowhere to hide.

If there are 2 scum off the Gork wagon then they have to move both onto it to get the hammer. Which they won't do just to lynch this. I know that town!Caesar won't hammer Gork, and I hope to god that Creature doesn't make the mistake of voting Gork.

pedit based on Cloud. He didn't defend someone via meta that I know he's capable of easily defending.

[Vecna]

{Aslan, Brian, Creature, MathBlade, Notice}
{Caesar, Gorkington, LUV}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}
{}
{CK, KidAmn, Leonshade}

If my reads are shit then work with me to fix them. The last time I asked for that you said no so what do you want from me? I've been trying all day to fix my reads and basically no one's done anything to help me figure shit out.

Is your read on Cloud based on Cloud or ssbm?

There's also very likely more than 3 mafia. I'm pretty sure Vecna is mafia which would make Maxous town because I don't think the back and forth with them was SvS. I thought Maxous was scum because of thinking Vecna had to be town but it's very likely I just fucked up on my read there. dave is town, just trust me on that one if you're town. I can't figure out if Nero is just bad and only hunting off "anti-town" stuff because of that or mafia hiding behind it. I have issues reading Nero but I think Alisae townreads him so... ehn.. not an avenue I would pursue unless through associations given that I think because I keep not being able to read him when I follow games as well.

Can you expand on Yurislot/Kid? You had them as obvtown for the D1 wagon earlier?

Are you willing to exchange me the same courtesy, put me as town for now, and willing to solve the puzzle in such a way where we both trust eachothers reads? Because I think that would put us in a pretty good spot here to get somewhere.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

My point was you were shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the person who scumread you around. You removed that point because you thought you'd be keeping Titus around, then decided you could fucking ego wifom me about it. Guess what? You can't, I'm not falling for it. As soon as you realized that it was "oh hey convenient Notice scumread!" like I literally cannot see why you aren't already fucking swinging. Instead we lost someone I gave reasons for being town based off really fucking strong meta tells. Why was that? OH because they were townreading me.

Why was Frogger killed? Because he was going to tr me if it wasn't multiball
Why was beeboy lynched? To save the Yuri/Notice "associative tells" for later (which are absolute fucking bullshit because you always intended to carry through your sr on me regardless of what yuri flipped, same with whoever else you fucking paired me with)
Why was ABR lynched? Because I thought he might be town and he wasn't actively going me
Why was PV killed? I bet if I go through his ISO we can find he wasn't scumreading me either
Why was there no nightkill last night? because scum tried to kill Alisae to get rid of one of my biggest defenders

You have literally been shading and trying to lynch me since D1 because I've been onto you, scumfuck.

Notice, I made that point because I wanted to sort you.

Dont you see that from my point of view, its a very convenient excuse to suddenly 180 on your read on me after I started townreading you? (the Titus/Mathblade swap that is).

I wanted to see how you'd react if I took that away from you by giving you the truth.

Yes, I couldve done it as an ego thing as scum, but what would be the sense?

I took a night phase thinking it over and processing how I thought you were posturing on my slot given that... so I can't see your point in the whole "oh it's gotta be scum for reversing the townread" because I clearly did take the fucking time to think it through and I'm insulted that it's implied that I didn't when it's clearly not true.

And it's hardly convenient when I and others were struggling to keep up with the thread pace at the time, but ok, sure I can see the pov there.

Ego doesn't have a point. It is what it is. The same as shooting as soon as possible as a vig, it's the ego of thinking you're better than everyone else and can pull off pro plays and will be nightkilled if you don't take the shot asap. I can't really explain it right now but it's something where I don't think ego needs a purpose beyond "I am so much better than everyone else that I can do this", especially when you're already winning in a game.

[Vecna]

Ok im gonna go on the cocky train again, and put up the people that I think would be able to think this through to the level that Notice just portrayed. From what I know about these people (and it might not be enough, but alas) - theres only 5/6 people here that id think were gonna orchestrate such a plan.

Vecna
Mastina
Titus (probably gone too early though)
Leonshade
Nero Cain
Pine (I guess? his portrayal of Caesar shows quite the hidden intellect id say)

I know it isnt me. Notice trying to frame himself only to later be able to fall back on it by outing it, is a very small possibility - but unlikely.

Nero Cain is a possibility. He's been hard on the attack on certain people that are widely townread. Ive stated earlier I think it could be possible he's scum since he reminds me of DeathNote Nero - but his current posting is going way beyond that. His posts are very well thought out generally - so if its him he's really trying to make this his scum magnum opus or some shit.

Leonshade - A real contender. Ive seen in Code Geass this guy is very smart when he wants to. The only thing that gives me doubts here is that id suspect he wouldnt have trouble to keep up appearances going into today, but he's just fallen off so much.

Pine: Insufficient information to judge the likelyhood.

[Vecna]

Ego doesn't have a point. It is what it is. The same as shooting as soon as possible as a vig, it's the ego of thinking you're better than everyone else and can pull off pro plays and will be nightkilled if you don't take the shot asap. I can't really explain it right now but it's something where I don't think ego needs a purpose beyond "I am so much better than everyone else that I can do this", especially when you're already winning in a game.

True, but let me tell you one thing: I had a massive moment of weakness this game where I nearly replaced out. If I was scum, I wouldnt be proud of having to resort to such cheap tactics, not at all (and I really dont think id ever use them either). And I certaintly wouldnt go on a huge ego-spree in such a needless way, when its not needed. As scum I use my ego when it helps further my wincondition, not to just show off. Not sure if the people in PYP can confirm that or not, but thats how I view it at least.

[nancy]

There's also very likely more than 3 mafia. I'm pretty sure Vecna is mafia which would make Maxous town because I don't think the back and forth with them was SvS. I thought Maxous was scum because of thinking Vecna had to be town but it's very likely I just fucked up on my read there. dave is town, just trust me on that one if you're town. I can't figure out if Nero is just bad and only hunting off "anti-town" stuff because of that or mafia hiding behind it. I have issues reading Nero but I think Alisae townreads him so... ehn.. not an avenue I would pursue unless through associations given that I think because I keep not being able to read him when I follow games as well.

Can you expand on Yurislot/Kid? You had them as obvtown for the D1 wagon earlier?

I've been assuming 5. Probably 4 + 1 traitor? dave Town isn't at all hard to believe. Yuri is more based on KidAmn and PoE than Yuri. There were also some sketchy interactions I had with LUV where LUV was constantly making fun of me for clearing Yuri based on that wagon and from past experience I felt like that was scum!LUV saying you're dumb. With town!LUV that's obviously weakened. I don't want to clear the slot purely because of that Day 1 wagon no matter how obvious a Town lynching Town wagon it looked like. I half don't want to believe Nero is Town because it'd be kind of depressing if he was. I was never TRing him but I sheeped Caesar's read there, although I later learned that Caesar's read was based on out-dated meta. There's still the remote possibility of scum!Caesar, also.

[nancy]

But if we assume Gork and Kid are Town solely by VCA/gamestate then by PoE scum is in {Caesar, CK, Leonshade, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}. That's a narrow pool, all things considered. The frustrating thing is that I don't have strong SRs on any of those slots, Caesar is a townlean, and Vecna/Maxous are null.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Vecna in the interest of if you're town not being a dumbfuck and causing the game losing mislynch I'll try. I can't see it right now, though, and I don't know if that's just my emotional/drunk state or the tunnel I've been flirting with all game with you. I know there's more to it in that I definitely dislike your playstyle which could contribute to that. It clashes with me (too many egos? idunno). One thing that you could do to help is not to accuse me of lying about RL. Lying about emotional appeals I can handle to some extent, but I will usually not lie about my inebriated state or about my reasons for being absent (when I do it's generally through omission or for family related reasons, which ends up being more a "skirt around the issue" thing than a lie).

[nancy]

Are you familiar with Vecna's meta Notice?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

shit I really need to go to bed, one more thing then

Vecna, mastina would not try to frame me without actively being a poster i htink. I've literally played like 2 games as scum and one I was force replaced from early on. Even if mastina made that plan I'd probably beg for it to not go through but I don't think she would ever drop me in the deep end like that. I'm sorry you wanted to replace out, I think all of us have been there this game tbh.

nancy can you tell me what about kid you find scummy enough to drop him that far if you thought yuri was town?

pedit: not at all, I'm too lazy to dive tbh, most I'll do these days is a skim in rvs for early tone to see if my rvs tone based reads are warranted. I missed that this game so didn't bohter.

[CloudKicker]

{Aslan, Brian, Creature, MathBlade, Notice}
{Caesar, Gorkington, LUV}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}
{}
{CK, KidAmn, Leonshade}

If my reads are shit then work with me to fix them. The last time I asked for that you said no so what do you want from me? I've been trying all day to fix my reads and basically no one's done anything to help me figure shit out.

your reads ended up disastrous but i appreciate the reset exercise

[CloudKicker]

And btw with these wagons

Lynch Vote 4.12

Gorkington (7): Leonshade, Vecna, MathBlade, davesaz, Nero Cain, CloudKicker, Lil Uzi Vert
Leonshade (5): Brian Skies, NoticeMeSenpai, Gorkington, Alisae, nancy
davesaz (1): Maxous

Not Voting (3): KidAmn, Caesar Wills It, Creature


Scum have basically nowhere to hide.

If there are 2 scum off the Gork wagon then they have to move both onto it to get the hammer. Which they won't do just to lynch this. I know that town!Caesar won't hammer Gork, and I hope to god that Creature doesn't make the mistake of voting Gork.

pedit based on Cloud. He didn't defend someone via meta that I know he's capable of easily defending.

Whomm, luv?

[CloudKicker]

or alisae?

[CloudKicker]

Ok im gonna go on the cocky train again, and put up the people that I think would be able to think this through to the level that Notice just portrayed. From what I know about these people (and it might not be enough, but alas) - theres only 5/6 people here that id think were gonna orchestrate such a plan.

Vecna
Mastina
Titus (probably gone too early though)
Leonshade
Nero Cain
Pine (I guess? his portrayal of Caesar shows quite the hidden intellect id say)

I know it isnt me. Notice trying to frame himself only to later be able to fall back on it by outing it, is a very small possibility - but unlikely.

Nero Cain is a possibility. He's been hard on the attack on certain people that are widely townread. Ive stated earlier I think it could be possible he's scum since he reminds me of DeathNote Nero - but his current posting is going way beyond that. His posts are very well thought out generally - so if its him he's really trying to make this his scum magnum opus or some shit.

Leonshade - A real contender. Ive seen in Code Geass this guy is very smart when he wants to. The only thing that gives me doubts here is that id suspect he wouldnt have trouble to keep up appearances going into today, but he's just fallen off so much.

Pine: Insufficient information to judge the likelyhood.

proof im still being underestimated

[nancy]

Yuri was only ever Town based on that Day 1 wagon. I was scumreading them before that based on content, don't really remember why. Looking back now it's eh, dunno. KidAmn's ISO is really lifeless though.

[CloudKicker]

If its about alisae, he recently got harder to read generally and im less inclined to have gut reads on him, theres also some of his play that im still really unsure of. If its about luv i scumread him earlier but havent been really pushing him since then and im pretty indifferent about his play atm