Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Socrates]

Liked the rest of the post, don't understand what you're saying with this point.
Saying that get scumread frequently is them trying too hard to pretend to be town...?

tbh, looking back at it, I really do not know what I was trying to accomplish with that.

Are you still happy with your vote on them?

There was other stuff I pointed out in that post plus my interactions with them so I'm happy with it, but I could always join you back on NC.

Could you elaborate on what parts of your direct interactions with him furthered your scumread? Or just link me to the correct post, I probably just missed it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

unvote
vote: socrates

[Socrates]

unvote
vote: socrates

Huff and Puff.

But is it fake?

[Desperado]

there's no huff and puff

what reaction did you expect a handwave and discredit to engender?

[Socrates]

MariaR reminds me of UncertainKitten. My intuition is that Scum!Maria would only condescend to me the way she did if she knew I was on the wrong trail, so I'd be surprised if she was scum WITH Not Chara.

I don't disagree with your intuition, but I'm not sure what you're talking about wrt the condescension itself.

When I pointed out that the ABR wagon had no substance to it and she implied the other wagons were bad and the ABR votes were just RVS and I'm clearly not reading the thread.

[Socrates]

there's no huff and puff

what reaction did you expect a handwave and discredit to engender?

Further elaboration.

Or nothing, if it wasn't actually an important read to you.

But it seemingly is, and you seem insulted that I cared little.

Huff and Puff.

[MariaR]

*eats popcorn* this is getting good

[Albert B. Rampage]

yup

[Socrates]

yup

Albert, what do you think of me?

D-Do you like me, Senpai?

[Tywin Lannister]

The last few pages suck. Let me get that out of the way. Nothing worthwhile has been said. It's all talk about motivations for TRs rather than finding scum. Imperium seems to be sorting players somewhat, but going in the wrong direction for it. Enough of why you TR someone. It's worthless. I personally don't care who TRs who. It just means they aren't in your lynch pool for whatever arbitrary reason. I also dislike motives and things being discussed, because all motives boil down to two things: town lynching scum and scum not getting lynched/mislynching town. It's pretty damn simple.

So since you're all here and ready to talk, let's talk. I'm about to go to bed, but when you all wake up, drink your morning coffee, and check the thread, here's what I personally wanna see: Scum reads/lynch pool and specific reasons as to why.

The rest boils down to fluff and makes people look like they're contributing/active while they say nothing. Imperium has done that to a T with their posts. It's all questioning TRs and learning motivation for them rather than saying 'I SR the following player(s) and here's why.'

So give that info and take a stance. Stop walking the fence and discussing everything except who to lynch. It's pinging me due to the constant fluff, and the only reason I'm saying it is A) because it may be your specific way to sort (although I find that it sidesteps the entire point to discuss TRs over SRs) and B) I want to get some meat and potatoes in this game. Currently, its some nouveau artisan food that's arranged all pretty, but it consists of a carrot, two peas, an eggsprout, and some chicken shavings. The game is starving for actual content.

Tl;dr: get to the point and give your SRs. Take a stance and say why. Not doing so is becoming scummy.

[Tywin Lannister]

Since we apparently all want to get TRs out of the way, do it and be done barring significant changes. Here's mine:

Town: Alisae, ABR, zefiend
Probably town, but will never trust them: NC, Almost
Null (more like idgaf about yet pool): Vifam, Majiff, MariaR, Desperado, Imperium
Scum lean but getting better: Socrates
Actual SR: Clumsy Phoenix

My lynch pool is anyone in the null or below slot. My real TRs are listed at the top. I never trust Almost/NC without confirmation, but they aren't getting lynched by me today. I've forgotten about MariaR/Majiff/Vifam for most of the game, but can't pick between them of who is more likely to be scum. Vifam at least I know acts this way as town. Idk Majiff or MariaRs meta well enough to say otherwise. Socrates pinged me early, but latest posts aren't terrible, and I don't have a specific post to point out as scummy, so that still leaves me with Clumsy.

Now, if people disagree with clumsy, feel free to discuss with me why. Shading ABP won't do it, because he's one of my strongest TRs. Unless someone can't point out his playstyle as specifically fitting a past scum game, I'm taking it as a definitive TR on D1. Alisae I know the best out of everyone, and I don't see him as scum here. Later posts pretty much solidified my change from slight SR to strong TR, so he's not getting lynched.

So my pool: Clumsy, Majifd, Vifam, MariaR, Deperado, Imperium, Socrates

I'll lynch any of those with a decent case and the right players on the wagon. I also may change my mind and put some into the 'not lynching yet' column, but that's my starting point. If anyone overlaps with their reads, we should discuss and narrow the lynch pool down further.

If anyone has a case on anyone else, give it. Make it count. I haven't seen a legit NC case yet, but I have seen a lot of useless/naked/sheep votes on the slot. I'll lynch one of those if they don't give a reason. This player list means that everyone knows better than to screw around sheeping and naked voting, so don't do it.

Also, I'll repeat: anyone with a reason not to vote clumsy, go ahead and tell me why. Otherwise, why aren't you also SRing the slot? If they flip scum, any fence sitter should be the subsequent lynches, and yes, I'm playing pre-flip associations. If you take a hard town stance on them, at least I know you weren't playing both sides in hopes of derailing the lynch but leaving open the bus possibility if necessary.

So again: give your lynch pool and let's see where everyone overlaps. This isn't that difficult.

[Imperium]

The last few pages suck. Let me get that out of the way. Nothing worthwhile has been said. It's all talk about motivations for TRs rather than finding scum. Imperium seems to be sorting players somewhat, but going in the wrong direction for it. Enough of why you TR someone. It's worthless. I personally don't care who TRs who. It just means they aren't in your lynch pool for whatever arbitrary reason. I also dislike motives and things being discussed, because all motives boil down to two things: town lynching scum and scum not getting lynched/mislynching town. It's pretty damn simple.

So since you're all here and ready to talk, let's talk. I'm about to go to bed, but when you all wake up, drink your morning coffee, and check the thread, here's what I personally wanna see: Scum reads/lynch pool and specific reasons as to why.

The rest boils down to fluff and makes people look like they're contributing/active while they say nothing. Imperium has done that to a T with their posts. It's all questioning TRs and learning motivation for them rather than saying 'I SR the following player(s) and here's why.'

So give that info and take a stance. Stop walking the fence and discussing everything except who to lynch. It's pinging me due to the constant fluff, and the only reason I'm saying it is A) because it may be your specific way to sort (although I find that it sidesteps the entire point to discuss TRs over SRs) and B) I want to get some meat and potatoes in this game. Currently, its some nouveau artisan food that's arranged all pretty, but it consists of a carrot, two peas, an eggsprout, and some chicken shavings. The game is starving for actual content.

Tl;dr: get to the point and give your SRs. Take a stance and say why. Not doing so is becoming scummy.

If this is to us you can take your condescending newb ass and shove it. We don't need advice on how to play this game from anyone, least of all you. We have a pretty damn strong town game and will solve the game our own way.

You should learn to understand different styles of play and recognize when town are trying to sort. You might learn something.

(Although the sheeer condescension you just displayed is more tywin-esque so good on you for that, but you don't see me criticizing your methods do you? No, good stand aside and watch how it's actually done.)

[Imperium]

like if i could only have one reason to vote abr it would be how quickly he went from pressure vote to narrative building, which is the only purpose that post served

ABR builds narratives far more frequently than the average player so while I don't disagree with your reasoning I think your conclusion is off.

[Imperium]

Talking with the Shaz head, I liked Socrates' case about Not Chara. Shaz head agrees, so we're going to follow there.

VOTE: Not Chara

What did you think of Not Chara's rebuttal?

[Imperium]

Enough of why you TR someone. It's worthless. I personally don't care who TRs who. It just means they aren't in your lynch pool for whatever arbitrary reason. I also dislike motives and things being discussed, because all motives boil down to two things: town lynching scum and scum not getting lynched/mislynching town. It's pretty damn simple.

Town play, in a tired, half-assed nutshell, is being transparent and determining motivation. I've never understood why some people insist on only scumhunting or only townhunting because you're only playing half of the game when you do so; finding town means narrowing down your scum pool, reducing scum mislynches, finding people to scumhunt with.

Motive is also remarkably more complicated than that; you've correctly noted our win conditions but the path to get there is different for ever player, hence different styles. In addition, not everything a player posts feeds into their wincondition; there are emotional responses and there are things people say regardless of alignment, etc. If you don't take what people are trying to do into account, how can you make the claim you understand them?

[Imperium]

useless/naked/sheep votes on the slot.

Could you call out these votes specifically?
I'd also like to hear you rephrase our suspicions on Not Chara, as well as Socrates; you note that our cases aren't legitimate, but there's no impetus for me to refine an approach until you show me it's broken.

[Almost50]

when you all wake up, drink your morning coffee, and check the thread,

*Pout* I don't drink coffee. Does that mean you don't want to talk to me?

B) I want to get some meat and potatoes in this game. Currently, its some nouveau artisan food that's arranged all pretty, but it consists of a carrot, two peas, an eggsprout, and some chicken shavings. The game is starving for actual content.

O'right Chef .. err.. Chief.

Seriously though, my stances are clear. My lynch pool is currently in Maria/Clumsy/Socrates/Majiffy/ABR. I don't SR read any of them in particular though. It's mainly PoE. You'd notice I haven't been voting anyone for a long time now.. just waiting for someone to do something that would ping me hard enough to merit a vote.

If it helps, I'm starting to think the Clumsy slot is a low hanging fruit, and even if Scum they're not going to last long and will definitely be found out soon enough. I'm not liking their hopping between wagons, but it certainly isn't reason enough for me to want them lynched.

I don't like ABR's over aggressiveness, but that's ABR as either alignment. If he starts lurking though I'd be willing to vote there, because it seems that -as Scum- he cannot keep up with the act for too long.

Socrates is meh. Majiffy is a total null and Maria I fear I'm a bit too paranoid about her since I've seen both her Scum and Town games and cannot tell the difference. In a game that has just ended a few hours ago I was SPOILED in the dead thread and still had doubts about her alignment. God! She could have hammered Town for the win and didn't, thus earning her a semi-confirmed status at MyLo.

So, while I don't have any actual case on any of them myself I'd be willing to sheep a GOOD case on either (keyword here being GOOD). Everyone else I TR to varying degrees.

[Imperium]

And I'm sorry for being rude in return, that wasn't nice if me. I'm just really hating mafia lately and that's part of the reason why. I don't understand why mafia can't be about scumhunting and trying to solve the game. Lately it seems it's ,ore about who can demean someone else, condescendingly tell people the way they solve the game is bad, harmful playstyles aside, and wanting people out of the game because their personalities get their personalities in a jimmy when they're not actuallly being beligerent or causing people harm. That's not even counting the antitown behavior that makes it harder to win a game lately.

If you want to excel at this game you're going to have to understand that people have different approaches. If you want to figure out our alignment you're going to have to read our posts and try to understand our reads and approach, anything else is just bluster that does not actually help solve the game.

[Imperium]

My personal experience with abr is that he is aggressive as town, not so much as scum. I do know he's capable of it, especially depending on his scum team. I agree with almost though that if he starts lurking or stops scumhunting that's problematic.

[Imperium]

alright, scratch what i said earlier.
i'm townreading the intent of 121, but i dislike that Socrates's push on me so far is based on this tell that they've said twice isn't complete because i haven't scumread anyone for the dragonballs, just given my opinion.
for one, zefiend has come to exactly the same conclusion, and Socrates hasn't mentioned it. they've caught scum this way before, but 2/3 players with the same opinion haven't even been spoken to. if there was real concern, why isn't the same care being taken? Socrates only mentions Almost after he brings up this exact problem.
and reading 121 again, there's the main issue. Almost is fine because Socrate's agrees that Almost's reasoning is towny. therefore, the mechanics tell isn't that important. zefiend gets a side-eye for stalling in 217, but no mention of the mechanics tell. the reply to Almost sounds like a retroactive excuse.
so in the end it just looks like my post caught Socrates's attention as something they could push safely, instead of the tell being the cause.

Why does something have to be complete for a push early game?

[Imperium]

3 townies alive, 2 scum alive. Scum resurrect a member, scum win the game.

All that means is its Lylo earlier than normal IF we don't manage to lynch any scum by then. If there are 5 players left and only one scum dead, then I'd already call it a loss. That would be terrible town play IMO. So again, I don't see any legitimate reason for scum to have the exact same wish as town. It helps only in that one specific scenerio, and if that scenerio happened, town were already losing. There's gotta be something else they have. Why are you assuming otherwise? You really think it's not possible that scum don't have seperate wishes than town that we don't know about?

Scum and some town could have other wishes. All we know is what we've been told is that the one wish common to all is resurrection.

If we haven't put thought into what scum have it's because we're town and don't know shit and it's not going to get anywhere. I don't really care what scum might have; I just care to keep them out of their hands.

[Imperium]

I really would like to see more tbh.
We have the Shaz head saying Zef is scum for hypocrisy but doesn't vote them (Meh scumtell at best).
Saying they get SR'd real hard looks LAMIST.
Shaz doesn't really comment on anything else that's going on in the gamestate.
Don't really get how they said Zef dropped a scumtell to Zef being town but ok.

I would really like Shaz to talk more about Maria.
Shaz can you talk more about Maria?

So I really don't have a good grasp on it? Like, I would sorta like to see them post more if anything. Does that make sense?

I think Shapiro was just answering the question z asked, not accusing them of hypocrisy?

[Imperium]

Yeaaaaaaaaah...
She's gonna post that way as either alignment.
VOTE: Clums

I don't get this vote. Do you expect clumsy to have meta knowledge of Maria? Why the vote there and why for that reason?

[Imperium]

@All: Thoughts on Imperium? Who all town/scum reads them?

I think they're pretty swell and obviously town. You wanna know how you can tell? I'm posting. It really is that easy.

If you wanna talk to us though, you can talk

[Imperium]

I actually like the "I always get scum read" thing from Shaziro.