Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Imperium]

Almost - does town not chara typically suspect people who suspect it?

[Imperium]

Anybody who gets off this wagon, now that it has consolidated, will be viewed with extreme suspicion after Clumsy flips.

Remember this if we flip.

I actually liked this post from Shapiro. Yes I get that this could come from scum but from what I've experienced with Shaziro (which is only one game offsite), he doesn't seem like that kind of ballsy player.

It feels silly to like it but I do.

[Imperium]

Liked the rest of the post, don't understand what you're saying with this point.
Saying that get scumread frequently is them trying too hard to pretend to be town...?

tbh, looking back at it, I really do not know what I was trying to accomplish with that.

Are you still happy with your vote on them?

There was other stuff I pointed out in that post plus my interactions with them so I'm happy with it, but I could always join you back on NC.

Can you talk about you nc read?

[Imperium]

And I am all caught up. I'm heading out though and will post some of ,y actual thoughts when I'm home and not on my phone.

[Almost50]

Almost - does town not chara typically suspect people who suspect it?

Not necessarily. It depends on how the suspicion is expressed and what the reasoning behind it is. (i.e. NC doesn't automatically suspect everyone who suspects the like -say- Titus/-Grey-/RC do).

[Desperado]

I also dislike motives and things being discussed, because all motives boil down to two things: town lynching scum and scum not getting lynched/mislynching town. It's pretty damn simple.

hahahah what

[Desperado]

Now, if people disagree with clumsy, feel free to discuss with me why. Shading ABP won't do it, because he's one of my strongest TRs. Unless someone can't point out his playstyle as specifically fitting a past scum game, I'm taking it as a definitive TR on D1. Alisae I know the best out of everyone, and I don't see him as scum here. Later posts pretty much solidified my change from slight SR to strong TR, so he's not getting lynched.

maybe i'm misremembering but you think abr is town because he's pushing wagons?

or is there more to it

[Desperado]

If anyone has a case on anyone else, give it. Make it count. I haven't seen a legit NC case yet, but I have seen a lot of useless/naked/sheep votes on the slot. I'll lynch one of those if they don't give a reason. This player list means that everyone knows better than to screw around sheeping and naked voting, so don't do it.

ali is your top townread and she is sheeping socrates' NC case that you don't see as legit

[Desperado]

I'd also like to hear you rephrase our suspicions on Not Chara, as well as Socrates; you note that our cases aren't legitimate, but there's no impetus for me to refine an approach until you show me it's broken.

exactly how i feel about socrates' response to my scumread on him

[Not Chara]

Why does something have to be complete for a push early game?

i'm still reading up, but i want to note this and answer it for good.

it doesn't. Socrates voting me for that tell is valid early game, even if incomplete. what's putting up alarm bells for me is what i perceived as Socrates not committing to that tell with the other players who had exhibited it. it's possible that he did feel that way too, but i happened to ping him more because of my direct response.

either Socrates is scum who's gathered a following, or they're not and scum are the ones following along. i really doubt there are more than 1 or 2 scum either voting me or interested in doing so publicly right now.

i've seen a few players now cite Socrates's 'case' as a reason for voting, but there isn't a case. Socrates themself could get a pass as its a personal tell that's worked for them before, but for everyone else that isn't true. they liked the case. what's the case? that i had an opinion about playing cautiously with the dragonballs. that's all.

thinking about it like this, i'm more inclined to entertain that Socrates as town, and there's scum within the followers. because Socrates's case isn't a case you can actually cite and follow, it's a personal tell about mechanics. do those who like the case also SR Almost and zefiend?

Imperium: i wanted to address you specifically on this due to what you said earlier. that town are more like to go against the grain and protest for their opinion on mechanics, but scum just like to say something functionally correct in lieu of scum hunting.
i can only assume this means you agree with me that my suggested approach (not just mine, zefiend's approach is the best iteration in my opinion) is the best one. yet i received flack for this opinion from players who wanted to try and win for town with the help of the dragonballs.

put together, this is at odds with your behaviour, if you're actually scumreading me based on Socrates's case.

the above about Socrates should hopefully also explain my issues with them and why i thought and still think they could be scum.

i have a lot of strong reads right now and it's a little unusual. nearly caught up, there weren't too many pages.

[Not Chara]

if Imperium is scum, Clumsy is almost certainly town.

[Imperium]

if you're actually scumreading me based on Socrates's case.

Where did you get this impression?

[Not Chara]

i wasn't sure if you were, which is exactly why i said that. i outlined your feelings on scum and town re: mechanics discussions because your opinion of me appears opposite to your feelings on thay matter.

[Not Chara]

i'm aware you've said other things regarding your SR; i'm getting to it.

[Imperium]

if Imperium is scum, Clumsy is almost certainly town.

Any statement that begins with if imperium is scum will lead to a flawed conclusion.

How does suspecting you go counter to our thoughts. You offered a safe suggestion. Keep the balls separate. That's not sticking your neck out, that is the safe thing to argue. It gets you no flack because that sounds like the most protown thing to suggest.

Where do you think you stuck your neck out and offered something that is against the grain?

[Imperium]

early assessment of Almost here suggests he's leaning town. i like Desperado's assessment of that one Almost post coming from town (meaning i like Desperado), but Almost is a self-aware scum and is perfectly capable of forming such a thought. he remembers things and uses them, his alignment has little to do with it. that would be why Almost is only lean town. i certainly don't want him lynched, however. i haven't seen anything from him i don't like yet.

Why do you like desperado for liking almost's post as coming from town and ignoring that we had already discussed liking almost's approach there?

I want this question answered as your going through things. This one matters more to me than the ball stuff, which this head cares little about.

[Imperium]

i perceived as Socrates not committing to that tell with the other players who had exhibited it.

And this is the problematic point for me. You imply that he should have treated all three people the same because he had a tell he was pushing on, which isn't exactly true; the approach he laid out of townreading the other two while not really feeling anything positive towards you seemed completely reasonable to me which is why the "he didn't commit hard enough" argument falls flat.

[Imperium]

scum just like to say something functionally correct in lieu of scum hunting.
i can only assume this means you agree with me

When I say "correct", I don't necessarily mean that it's the proper play for town to make, only that it's the position with the most easily accessible logic.

Does that make any sense at all?

[Imperium]

Tells in and of themselves do not mean the person thinks oh everyone who does this one thing is definite scum. They do not exist in a vacuum. If someone commits one tell you find scummy, and they haven't done anything else you find town, pushing them for it is what mafia is all about. Selective scumhunting exists, sure, but I don't see it playing out in this case.

Also and not related here, asking questions is not throwing shade, it's trying to figure out the game.

[Not Chara]

i suggested playing it safe, that does not mean it was a'safe' suggestion.
now i say this, keeping in mind that at the time i didn't expect to receive any flack for a mechanics opinion advocating caution.

but evidently, i did. what exactly would be an unsafe thing to argue? that we should work together to gather the balls and give them to a townread?
if suggesting that we avoid a central mechanic to this game, including that i would actively work against any players (including town ones) attempting to group the balls, is a safe suggestion that scum would go for to look towny, then what isn't a safe suggestion regarding rhe dragonballs?

pedit: alright, you have more posts. i'll get my laptop.

[Imperium]

i suggested playing it safe, that does not mean it was a'safe' suggestion.

Disagree with this. You saying you would work against attempts to group them wasn't a risk; it would be a risk if we established we were grouping and you had a means of sabotaging it, but that's not what was going on.

Unsafe positions look like Socrates's; zefiend's position was also safe, but he stuck his neck out pretty far for it. It would also be an unsafe position to suggest we send it out to a group of townreads, yes.

[Not Chara]

early assessment of Almost here suggests he's leaning town. i like Desperado's assessment of that one Almost post coming from town (meaning i like Desperado), but Almost is a self-aware scum and is perfectly capable of forming such a thought. he remembers things and uses them, his alignment has little to do with it. that would be why Almost is only lean town. i certainly don't want him lynched, however. i haven't seen anything from him i don't like yet.

Why do you like desperado for liking almost's post as coming from town and ignoring that we had already discussed liking almost's approach there?

I want this question answered as your going through things. This one matters more to me than the ball stuff, which this head cares little about.

i liked the way Desperado explained his thought process surrounding the read after being questioned, it looked very genuine to me. simply thinking Almost is town for that posting isn't really enough for me. unless i missed it somewhere, you didn't really go in depth about it. essentially, Desperado caught my attention there while i just forgot that you had that opinion. i happened to mention Desperado there because i was reminded of the townread while talking about Almost.

pedit: i don't see a point arguing about that further then, we're not going to agree and if you believe this then i don't have a problem with that stance.

[Imperium]

I think you'd probably not gotten the flak that you did for the mechanic discussion if you'd had something else also. It's a very safe thing to enter a game with and when people do that and they don't have other townie sounding posts it becomes the crux of the suspicion, and right now it's becoming too much of the discussion concerning you which doesn't help this head actually sort you.

I have a theory forming of getting the balls, or letting people hammer, who are sort of in the Poe but probably town to keep the stronger/more widely town read players alive, but I'm not sure how to get it into play.

Well but playing it safe is a safe suggestion precisely because it sounds so protown, but I don't really care about the balls or any of that because it doesn't help me sort you. Your entrance gave good enough reason for an early push to sort, and your Socrates position came across puzzling.

[Not Chara]

Tells in and of themselves do not mean the person thinks oh everyone who does this one thing is definite scum. They do not exist in a vacuum. If someone commits one tell you find scummy, and they haven't done anything else you find town, pushing them for it is what mafia is all about. Selective scumhunting exists, sure, but I don't see it playing out in this case.

Also and not related here, asking questions is not throwing shade, it's trying to figure out the game.

you may have noticed in my first post today, but i am considering that to Socrates, my position and zefiend/Almost's were different. at the time when i scumread Socrates for that point, i still felt that calling that one tell a 'case' for other players to sheep was going overboard when other players had expressed the same opinions.

if Imperium is scum, Clumsy is almost certainly town.

Any statement that begins with if imperium is scum will lead to a flawed conclusion.

was there any point in saying this? it isn't as though it will matter if you end up flipping town.

[Not Chara]

and you aren't scumreading Clumsy.