[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

[Chronicle]

Oh wow I butchered that quote tag

[WhyMafia]

Why are we debating his alignment when he's not even lurking - he hasn't logged on since the game started. This is wasting time to find scum, unless we're using this to gauge reactions.


But idk I'm bad at mafia

[Chronicle]

Why are we debating his alignment when he's not even lurking - he hasn't logged on since the game started.

Exactly why I can't justify a vote on bjc.

Also, what are your reads so far? Has your read on Loop changed?

[StealthyNoodle]

Why the heck would he go online just to lurk? It would simply weaken his position as scum. Your reasoning makes no sense.

Same if he were town? Him not posting in this thread is therefore not alignment indicative, as you have previously implied.

So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

He entered the game at the moment he accepted his role. He might be flaking, he might be lurking. And hopefully he'll show up to speak his mind about that sooner or later.

Convenient how you just snipped out the whole part about putting words in my mouth while replying to me.

For what reason would I include it? It's not at all relevant to my reply.

Stop shoving people around. Again, if I feel like someone's more fit for the vote, I'll gladly change my mind.

Your vote is wasted on a slot that hasn't even logged in since the game started, and you voting him will not pop him an email telling him to check in on this game and post his thoughts.

And when he does finally catch up, he will post his thoughts accordingly. Your one vote doesn't do anything. It will not spur any sort of reaction, it does not give him any sort of incentive to pay more attention to this game, because he is not ignoring this game. Because he hasn't even logged in yet.

Your vote does not do anything. His inactivity thus far is not alignment indicative.

It doesn't seem like you're reading my posts at all. So let me rephrase:
If bjc0303 is lurking, he sees this. If there's more pressure and he's still lurking, there'll probably be a response as well. To explain further:

He doesn't have to be online to lurk.

I don't get why you keep pushing such an invalid argument.

he hasn't logged on since the game started.

And that goes for you as well.

[StealthyNoodle]

But idk I'm bad at mafia

Sounds like a scummy thing to say.

[StealthyNoodle]

I highly doubt there was a substantial thought process behind that vote. bjc hasn't even posted anything yet.

Not sure if you're trolling, or just trying to be an a-hole.

[Chronicle]

So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

Do you agree that he could also just not have logged in and your actions literally do nothing to encourage content from his slot because he possibly hasn't even checked the site?

I do not deny that lurking is scum indicative, but you have no way of proving that he is lurking and intentionally trying to coast.

If bjc0303 is lurking, he sees this. If there's more pressure and he's still lurking, there'll probably be a response as well. To explain further:

He doesn't have to be online to lurk.

I don't get why you keep pushing such an invalid argument.

My words on you are just as useless as your vote.

[Chronicle]

I highly doubt there was a substantial thought process behind that vote. bjc hasn't even posted anything yet.

Not sure if you're trolling, or just trying to be an a-hole.

I'm just being honest. It was a simple vote, there wasn't much behind it. Which is why I disliked it, because I think it's a real waste of a vote.

[Chronicle]

Even if he was scum lurking he can only lurk for so long before he gets prodded. And that's an actual incentive for him to post.

[Chronicle]

Trying to pushing a pressure wagon on a lurker? Sure.

But you have no proof he is lurking, nor any form of indication that he could be lurkscum.

[Chronicle]

VOTE: Whymafia

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Whymafia

I am in school rn - give me a few hours

[Loopdan]

@Pine-- Talk to me about nancy's play here.

[TesXX]

So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?

I meant to say

ask

, not

answer

. My bad.

[TesXX]

Voting him won't work like a prod would, and will not magically get him back.

I agree with this.

[TesXX]

And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

I definitely do. I'd be very interested to see somebody give me a

good

scum mindset involving lurking.

Scum1:

Cool, we're scum! Okay, let's think of a strategy to get rid of town.

Scum2:

Hmm... Oh, I know! Let's lurk!

Scum1:

But why would you want to lurk? Won't you get replaced?

Scum2:

Then I'll just post useless crap to avoid getting replaced!

Scum1:

But if you have to post eventually then what's the purpose of lurking?

Scum2:

JUST SHUT UP AND LURK

[Chronicle]

Lurking does not mean you do not post entirely. You post minimally, enough to dodge prods. It let's you fly under the radar as scum.

And also scum may not consciously adopt lurking as a strat, but apathy from knowing alignments and fear of getting caught or suspected would result in lurking, hence why it's normally seen as scum indicative.

[Srceenplay]

VOTE: Whymafia

I am in school rn - give me a few hours

I don't know? When you say a few hours and it's been almost eight hours, is that considered lurking?

[WhyMafia]

VOTE: Whymafia

I am in school rn - give me a few hours

I don't know? When you say a few hours and it's been almost eight hours, is that considered lurking?

I'm sorry but I am in the school pit band and we are having a show this weekend so I had a long rehearsal. Normal school ended five hours and a half ago, then I had rehearsal for another three and a half hours. I just finished most of my hw as well so I have a bit of time rn. I love how you're calling me out for lurking yet there are more players who have posted less than me. Are you trying to get an easy bandwagon started on me lol. Anyway, I'll post a reads list

Note - idk what a standard reads list looks like on ms. I'm sorry of it's horrible, I'm a tad overwhelmed rn

[WhyMafia]

Reads list
Tes - Not certain, apart from suggesting Bp strat, he hasn't done much. Could be a gamble as he looks Town by suggesting it, but it's becoming fairly common (from what I can tell by what others said), so if he was scum, he might as well look as best as possible.
Chronicle - Neutral. Similar to Tes he defended the bp strat quite vigorously as well as the inactive. He hasn't really done anything that screams "TOWN", but seems to be trying to help find scum (pressuring others into participating with the strat that usually finds scum).
Loop - Town, didn't work against the strat and also helped pressure others. This is more of a vibe I guess
Nancy - Scum lean. Starts out with going out for an aggressive counter to the strat. Proceeds to say it won't help new players learn. However most of the new players seem to not mind using this strategy. If there's a cop, look into her please.
Pine - Not enough posts to judge with, but made a valid point
Screenplay - Neutral, slightly miffed he's pushing me, but it's my fault for missing loopdens post. I want his reads before saying anything conclusive. Idk how it's considered lurking, we all have outside lives. If I wanted to lurk, I wouldn't have replied "a few hours" in the first place. Seems to be aggressive against the new player, some of it deserved, but I don't trust him fully. Maybe I'm just biased.
Stealthy - Scum lean - I'm having trouble with quotes, so I'll refer to post numbers
79/89 - Says that he agrees with Nancy that the strat isn't good for new players, but proceeds to say by not supporting it, she has a higher possibility of scum. It seems to me that she's braver than you and posted her opinion while you just want to look good to town. You're a hypocrite. Stating that you agree with what she said, but those words make her a scum read to you makes no sense. Even tho she didn't cooperate, you should've stuck to what you believed in lol. While I don't necessarily consider her as pro town, you make her seem so much better. You could be bussing her idk.
94 - Again, you agree with her ... what makes you vs her different? That she took a more direct stance? If the majority of the players said that this strat was bad and she was the only who argued it was good, I think you wouldn't have gone along with this strategy xd

I hope what I just said made sense, it probably didn't knowing me. Anyways, go analyze this now

[Srceenplay]

VOTE: Whymafia

I am in school rn - give me a few hours

I don't know? When you say a few hours and it's been almost eight hours, is that considered lurking?

I'm sorry but I am in the school pit band and we are having a show this weekend so I had a long rehearsal. Normal school ended five hours and a half ago, then I had rehearsal for another three and a half hours. I just finished most of my hw as well so I have a bit of time rn. I love how you're calling me out for lurking yet there are more players who have posted less than me. Are you trying to get an easy bandwagon started on me lol. Anyway, I'll post a reads list

Note - idk what a standard reads list looks like on ms. I'm sorry of it's horrible, I'm a tad overwhelmed rn

Yup. I'm looking for the easy wagon.

[StealthyNoodle]

Even if he was scum lurking he can only lurk for so long before he gets prodded. And that's an actual incentive for him to post.

Lurking does not mean you do not post entirely. You post minimally, enough to dodge prods.

I admit a huge flaw from my side, not taking prodding into consideration.

I highly doubt there was a substantial thought process behind that vote. bjc hasn't even posted anything yet.

Not sure if you're trolling, or just trying to be an a-hole.

I'm just being honest. It was a simple vote, there wasn't much behind it. Which is why I disliked it, because I think it's a real waste of a vote.

Still, simply assuming that I didn't put any thought into my vote just doesn't help in any way, nor does it make me want to change my vote. In the aftermath it seems like you're at least trying to hear me out, as well as change my opinion.

So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

Do you agree that he could also just not have logged in and your actions literally do nothing to encourage content from his slot because he possibly hasn't even checked the site?

Both are entirely possible.

And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

I definitely do. I'd be very interested to see somebody give me a

good

scum mindset involving lurking.

Scum1:

Cool, we're scum! Okay, let's think of a strategy to get rid of town.

Scum2:

Hmm... Oh, I know! Let's lurk!

Scum1:

But why would you want to lurk? Won't you get replaced?

Scum2:

Then I'll just post useless crap to avoid getting replaced!

Scum1:

But if you have to post eventually then what's the purpose of lurking?

Scum2:

JUST SHUT UP AND LURK

Lurkers won't reveal information about themselves, nor assist in identifying other players. They'd "shut up and lurk", as you phrased it, while we'd vote each other out. It might not be much of a strategy in itself, but it certainly doesn't help town.

[StealthyNoodle]

79/89 - Says that he agrees with Nancy that the strat isn't good for new players, but proceeds to say by not supporting it, she has a higher possibility of scum.

[...]

You're a hypocrite. Stating that you agree with what she said, but those words make her a scum read to you makes no sense.

94 - Again, you agree with her ... what makes you vs her different? That she took a more direct stance?

For clarity's sake, I presume this is what you're referring to:

First game and I'm already overwhelmed. I do get that this strategy puts town in a better spot, but I agree with Nancy that it seems like a rather bad way to start out a game for newbies, and not much fun at all.

Why vote Nancy if you feel bad about it?

She still wants to boycott a town-winning strategy. Even though I agree with her that the strat is more frightening than helpful in a newbie-game, I'd still say there's a higher probability she's scum.

VOTE: StealthyNoodle

Trumping up the charges against nancy and gross exaggeration are pretty classic scum tactics.

I have nothing to hide; my vote is solely based on supposed probability. If some other good theories come around, I'll surely listen.

To elaborate:
I don't know much about the BP-strat, but I've come to understand that it's generally considered a strat that puts town in a considerably better position than scum. All over, it seems like a strat that would make it difficult for a newbscum to do much at all, thus I believe it would be wise not to include it in a newbie game.

I mentioned this here:

The mechanics play a big role in the game, and the newbies

should

learn to use them to their advantage.

I'm not really that eager to discuss this subject(and I know far too little about it), but doesn't this strat put a scummy newb in a really tough spot?
I mean the main reason I dislike this strat, is because it seems to bring unbalance to the game.

Concidering this is my first game online, it seems pretty ridiculous to go against the majority, refuse to claim, risk being lynched only to enforce my incomplete views. I shared my opinion on the matter, and that's that. If I wanted the use of this strat in newbie-games to cease, I'd probably discuss that in a non-game thread.

I was also confronted by Nancy on this matter:

If you agree that the strat should not be used, you have every reason not to go along with it.

I didn't go along with it, because I didn't want to end up in your position. Seems like I dug my own grave instead.

Correction: I should've been "I went along with it", not "I didn't go along with it"

It seems to me that she's braver than you and posted her opinion while you just want to look good to town.

Yes. Or it could be a great excuse to stop the strat from taking effect. Later on though, she did claim(in a way) that she wasn't BP.

Even tho she didn't cooperate, you should've stuck to what you believed in lol. While I don't necessarily consider her as pro town, you make her seem so much better. You could be bussing her idk.

Well, I explained this further up in the post, so.

If the majority of the players said that this strat was bad and she was the only who argued it was good, I think you wouldn't have gone along with this strategy xd

Sure. And?

[nancy]

What's the difference between the vote and the post?

The vote as I referenced it is the policy of voting to demand activity. The post is the content (including the vote) created in the context of the gamestate.

But idk I'm bad at mafia

Gotta start somewhere! I don't think you're bad at all. Try not to think about your performance too much and just relax! Have fun!

So, do you agree that he might very well be lurking then? And do you deny that lurking is a pro-scum strat?

Lurking is most certainly not an explicitly pro-scum strat. As with everything, you have to look at context to parse whether or not the lurking is scum- or Town-motivated. Lurking is not a good playstyle at all imo, but it's generally just considered anti-town. Look at the "why". Why is a slot lurking? Is it lurking off pressure? Is it lurking because it has nothing to contribute? Is it lurking because the gamestate benefits it? Find the motivation and you find the alignment.

VOTE: Whymafia

Why this naked vote?

So if I'm scum, make a post with how a town player would answer it.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking of me. What is the connection between you being scum and how a Town slot would answer? Answer what? Could you try rephrasing maybe?

I meant to say

ask

, not

answer

. My bad.

I still don't follow, unfortunately. Let's go back to 146. What were you trying achieve there?

Note - idk what a standard reads list looks like on ms. I'm sorry of it's horrible, I'm a tad overwhelmed rn

Spoiler: Rant on readslists

A readslist can look like anything you want it to. Most players have a particular preference for one way of listing reads and there's no "correct" way to go about it. The only important thing is that you convey the information you want to convey in a clear and easily understandable way. Formatting is important. You generally want people to

want

to read your posts, unless you're going for a particular style of scum play involving blending in and being forgettable. There's a pretty commonly used style of listing reads by name that was popularized by a player called Ranger, where you place each slot in tiered brackets to signify your read on them, and it's useful and compact, but my preferred way is to make a list of each slot in the game and order it accordingly. I prefer this way because it's more precise and offers more nuance than bracketed tiers. See below.

Pine
Screenplay
WhyMafia
Chronicle
Loopdan
bjc (this slot is null, anything at this line or below I would be happy with lynching)
Noodle
Tes

The same reads in a Ranger-style readslist:
{Pine, Screenplay, WhyMafia}
{Chronicle, Loopdan}
{bjc}
{Noodle}
{Tes}

Day 1 play for Town is all about developing your reads and sorting players. Early on in Day 1 you're rarely going to have any reads outside the middle tiers. By the end of the day you'll probably have a scumread that you strongly feel you want to wagon. You reassess and consolidate those reads in Day 2, especially your TRs, in the effort to go into the lategame as a cohesive Town. I probably shouldn't be doing this much teachery talk though, so I'll leave it at that.

Anything I can do to help you be less overwhelmed, or is it a RL thing?

[Srceenplay]

#1 like the read list rant
#2 Don't think whymafia deserves townish. You know something I don't?
#3 Can everyone stop with the wall post of quotes. Pain in the ass for mobile guys like me. Especially when it's time to quote things.