Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[WhemeStar]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

That is harsh. I just don't have anything to go off of right now. i have my scumish reads and my town reads. I like keeping thoughts to myself

[WhemeStar]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

That is harsh. I just don't have anything to go off of right now. i have my scumish reads and my town reads. I like keeping thoughts to myself

[TwoFace]

There's plenty to go off actually

[horrordude0215]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

That is harsh. I just don't have anything to go off of right now. i have my scumish reads and my town reads. I like keeping thoughts to myself

What motivation would town have for keeping thoughts to themselves? If anything, transparency is our greatest asset, because if we end up lynched/nightkilled/etc., it shows that our thoughts are genuine and can be read in a different perspective going forward.

I understand not outing townreads - I dont believe that's a good idea unless I feel a scenario is tvt and everyone is focusing on those two players. But not giving justification for a vote and claiming "that's just how you play" benefits nobody. And I looked through your ISO for some of your completed games... yes, your playstyle is normally a bunch of one liners and shitposting, but I can see actual attempts at scumhunting and building cases on people. That isn't happening in this game so far, and that's why my vote is staying where it is.

[Boonskiies]

@Having - Hey. We haven't had much, if any experience with each other. I'm Boon. I'm known as trolly and seemingly always scum, but people with experience with me know me as a late game town powerhouse or a sneaky scum of a bitch. I like to play. I like emotion. Take a journey to the boon and back, and then you will realize...man, fuck early game.

I'm pretty sure nobody has referred to you as a powerhouse

Not at first. I've been told that I deliberately play town to make my scum game better. Which I do win the majority of my scum games, and late game I nail scum as town, if not become the closest one to doing it. Which is why the TSO quote is in my sig. I do deiberately play badly in a lot of my town games, but I still always play to win. I like seeing and reading people's reactions based directly towards me, as i read much better if I interact with people. Before I left site, people brought up that I purposefully play the village idiot when I'm not, and in my scum games, you can usually see that. Which is a big reason I tend not to get lynched very often, even though I'm usually prime mislynch bait. It does help me find scum, and it keeps me from getting night killed. I do tend to be night killed more often with players who are familiar with me rather than those who are just basing it off the game.

[Boonskiies]

I honestly just don't care much about Day 1 or 2 in games. It's just a lot of what if's and bad pushes.

[Boonskiies]

Especially in normal games, which is sad because I really enjoy normals.

[TwoFace]

Playing badly on purpose and playing to your win condition doesn't compute for me but whatever. That's not a conversation I care to have. But thanks for admitting that. Makes things easy for me going forward

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

VOTE: Whemestar

The way he is playing comes off as scum trying to act all trolly and aggressive, but it really doesn't come off as genuine to me.

Also to respond to @havingfitz, I said that I was having issues posting which is why I didn't post until a few days into the game.

[Boonskiies]

I do whatever it takes to find scum. Simple as that. You can tell by the games I mod that I am overly capable of doing things in an orderly manner, and I can be one of those once or twice a day phase make a huge actual wall that the rest of the players see as obviously town and sheep reads on. Those don't work for me. That gets me night killed, and then town loses. I win more games when I'm being my loud, obnoxious self and actually live.

[Superhans]

Not at first. I've been told that I deliberately play town to make my scum game better. Which I do win the majority of my scum games, and late game I nail scum as town, if not become the closest one to doing it. Which is why the TSO quote is in my sig. I do deiberately play badly in a lot of my town games, but I still always play to win. I like seeing and reading people's reactions based directly towards me, as i read much better if I interact with people. Before I left site, people brought up that I purposefully play the village idiot when I'm not, and in my scum games, you can usually see that. Which is a big reason I tend not to get lynched very often, even though I'm usually prime mislynch bait. It does help me find scum, and it keeps me from getting night killed. I do tend to be night killed more often with players who are familiar with me rather than those who are just basing it off the game.

Ohhh shit you're doing what i always try to do when scum. Be super transparent when talking about my mafia.
It actually worked a little bit until i was lynched D1, lol.
Anyway I'm not.accusing u of being scum, just please don't expect me to read this as you being open like a book because there definitely is a scum motivation to making posts like these.

[WhemeStar]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

That is harsh. I just don't have anything to go off of right now. i have my scumish reads and my town reads. I like keeping thoughts to myself

What motivation would town have for keeping thoughts to themselves? If anything, transparency is our greatest asset, because if we end up lynched/nightkilled/etc., it shows that our thoughts are genuine and can be read in a different perspective going forward.

I understand not outing townreads - I dont believe that's a good idea unless I feel a scenario is tvt and everyone is focusing on those two players. But not giving justification for a vote and claiming "that's just how you play" benefits nobody. And I looked through your ISO for some of your completed games... yes, your playstyle is normally a bunch of one liners and shitposting, but I can see actual attempts at scumhunting and building cases on people. That isn't happening in this game so far, and that's why my vote is staying where it is.

I play town how I play town.

[WhemeStar]

Lol your scum trying to hop on a easy wagon aren't you

VOTE: IalwaysWinSometimes

[implosion]

Wheme is probably town.

Not a fan of Imp's Post 47. IAWS has done virtually nothing (i.e. most of his wagon at this point is RVS I assume) and yet Imp is giving CMM some shit for moving off IAWS.

@ Imp...Why are IAWS and Boon scum?

I've been known to be facetious at times.

Imp shines a little shade (IMO) on Hans...

Believe me I have been tempted to shine quite a bit more.

OK...so imp is probably calling Boon scum for OMGUS (yes?)...but decides to get off his scum!IAWS wagon and hop on the wagon scum!Boon just exited. Also happens to be the largest wagon.

I don't actually think boon is scum (nor did I then). He's null for me atm.

implosion makes nice well-reasoned posts but I'm not sure that they are getting anywhere. Kind of like a butterfly just flittering around looking for a good spot to land.

This is frankly accurate. I feel like I've accomplished relatively little with my posting overall.

I hope to change that in the near future.

why does having nothing to do with your vote make you happy?

This is a misinterpretation. I said the opposite.

If I'm being "opaque" ask me a question.

What a coincedence! I asked you two literally immediately after calling you opaque... did you like, not notice that those were questions? ?????

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Whemestar

The way he is playing comes off as scum trying to act all trolly and aggressive, but it really doesn't come off as genuine to me.

Also to respond to @havingfitz, I said that I was having issues posting which is why I didn't post until a few days into the game.

You have 5 posts and that's all you have to offer? Looks like cruising scum

[WhemeStar]

Implosion gets me

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: Twoface

DRK said it was the next wagon

His push on cooldog in particular (compared to other peoples') feels really one-dimensional. It feels like scum who has latched on to what they believe is an easy-to-justify tunnel. It seems like essentially every single thing that cooldog posts, he finds some scum motivation for. That doesn't look to me like a townie who is objectively trying to evaluate individual posts for which alignment they're indicative of; it looks like scum who thinks that they have found someone that they can list good logical reasons for voting, and so has decided to latch onto the read and push it because they know that they'll be able to look accurately logical in pushing it.

It conceivably could be town tunneling really badly but cooldog in particular in this game is, IMO, the kind of "easy mislynch" that is very attractive to scum (assuming that I'm right that he's town, which is of course not a given, but bear with me). Cooldog has posted a lot of very at-face-value jarring things, like calling out the claim early and criticizing the cmm wagon that he was on. These things are, IMO, really not alignment-indicative when you look past the surface of them (in the former case, as I've argued, scum empirically don't lie about things like thinking that a claim like that is a real claim, and this is further supported by fitz's thinking that it might have been real; in the latter case, his cmm vote was purely rvs while at least mine wasn't).

It's also not alignment-indicative but I absolutely despise this attitude:

everyone says that, yet I never have a crazy reaction when people I think are scum flip. most of the time I am right and when I am wrong, i don't really care because it was them that played like scum, so they deserved it.

Saying that everyone you vote for deserved it is a surefire way to never improving your ability to read people. A mislynch is everyone's fault in different proportions that can never really be objectively evaluated. If you think someone is scummy and other people think they're towntelling and you were wrong it's your own damn fault for being wrong and not seeing the towntells for what they were, not that person's fault for being scummy.

[implosion]

IAWS is also a good candidate for scum right now; the trepidation in 239 feels a bit off to me. If you feel like other people are going off flimsy evidence, you should be able to cite cases where you think that they're going off of evidence that is so flimsy that they probably don't believe what they're saying. It feels a little bit more like scum-out-of-their-element than the other way around. Not drastically though. I don't make a ton of their wheme vote.

[implosion]

also @boon my only memory of you is lynching you when you were scum so

[Eddie Cane]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

[TwoFace]

Go ahead and vote me. I'm not changing my vote off caught scum who again has LIED multiple times already in a deliberate attempt to deceive people. If that's a one dimensional push, so be it. I'd rather be one dimensional and do what's right than be muti-dimensional and allow lying and scummy play to become acceptable behavior

Also, I don't have any desire to improve my ability to read people. My ability to read people is just fine. If I misread somebody cause they did something they shouldn't have done, that's not my fault and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

If you get voted by me, you've done something you shouldn't have. If you intentionally deceive town, and you are town, it's not my fault.

Anyone who thinks lying to intentionally deceive people is acceptable please quit playing mafia now. You don't belong here.

[WhemeStar]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

Have my votes been bad votes

[implosion]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

Unfortunately this is not how you win games as town!

[TwoFace]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

But when you have a player who has intentionally deceived people, you don't ignore that cause that's legitimately scummy.

[Eddie Cane]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

Have my votes been bad votes

I was more speaking to how easy it was to mislynch you when I was scum