Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[horrordude0215]

Hey everyone!

VOTE: Eddie Cane

Because I'm bitter as fuck.

[horrordude0215]

[horrordude0215]

VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Page 1 lynch gogogogogo.

[horrordude0215]

CooLDowN CooLDog. (See what I did there? I'm so punny).

The claim appeared to be pretty obviously false imo... mainly because, as you pointed out, the concept of actually claiming lovers on Page 3 would be terribad. You don't need to run the math there.

[horrordude0215]

The claim appeared to be pretty obviously false imo... mainly because, as you pointed out, the concept of actually claiming lovers on Page 3 would be terribad. You don't need to run the math there.

Completely lost.
What is this referring to?

This one:

Imp, rvs target =\= lynch target.

@drk, 3rd vote always scum.

Don't like boo's soft mason claim.

Booskins is the best wagon right now. More pressure would be god. Although a lot of people will probably try to get onto the cmm wagon for no reason. Lets wait and see for a little bit.

he didn't soft mason, we are lovers.

cmm wagon is good wagon. vote cmm now!

the page 3 fucking dumb claim. Awesome dude. Now with the hypothetical doc we have 1/2 chance of two deaths (assuming they kill one of you) as opposed to the 1/6 chance of two deaths + the 9/12 chance of one. Someone good at game theory do this calculation for me, I'm bad at math. But my gut says this was wrong, particularlly asuming that the scum could wisely choose to not kill one of you and thus secure a free kill. And if you just fake claimed, I will murder you with fire. LAL ftw.

So we know at least one of the roles now: VI goes to eddie this game.

[horrordude0215]

not an omgus, but you literally just said you like the cmm wagon. Seems like fishing for the easiest wagon to be on, as superhans points out in his next post.

Ummmmmm, no she didn't?

[horrordude0215]

UNVOTE:

Will reread today.

[horrordude0215]

Hey everyone I'm in this game too I promise - giving my attention to another game atm, but I'm putting aside some time for you all because I love you. I'm just going to go through the thread from the beginning and see what I can come up with.

Cooldog's reaction to the lover's "claim" seems genuine as someone frustrated with a potential failtown.

VOTE: TwoFace

I dont like those snappy one liners. really abbrassive tone that isnt that helpful.

Is an abrasive tone inherently more scummy than not? I can list probably a dozen people that are assholes when they play, regardless of alignment.

Aaaaaaaand the rest of the thread so far is essentially back and forths over what appear to be differences in playstyles. Hans, quit getting in 1v1s so early on in threads please.

More activity is needed for me to get better reads.

@Mod: V/LA for most weekends.

I'll try to get on and post, but I can't guarantee.

[horrordude0215]

can someone explain the wagon on CoolDog in plain english? like a TLDR, because i havent.

Eddie "claimed" lovers on page 3, CD jumped on him pretty hard for it. People are saying that CoolDog is now scum for that, because the reaction was more likely to come from scum than town? idk... I don't buy it tbh.

Whassup folks.

VOTE: Desully

My vote goes here

Really didn't like Darklyns first couple posts... cmon man you put me in a rough spot

I really don't like this intro to the game.

VOTE: WhemeStar

[horrordude0215]

The site meta for shitposters is more than a little annoying, because it's almost impossible to read them either way. It's the only time I will ever call for a PL - you're either going to be productive to town and make good quality posts, or you're going to be lynched.

[horrordude0215]

The site meta for shitposters is more than a little annoying, because it's almost impossible to read them either way. It's the only time I will ever call for a PL - you're either going to be productive to town and make good quality posts, or you're going to be lynched.

don't necessarily like this, seems like going for an easy lynch.

Not the intent necessarily - I'm just beyond frustrated that site meta is now to allow shitposters to do whatever they want without actually contributing to town. They get a pass for being trolls, essentially, and I'm tired of it.

[horrordude0215]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

That is harsh. I just don't have anything to go off of right now. i have my scumish reads and my town reads. I like keeping thoughts to myself

What motivation would town have for keeping thoughts to themselves? If anything, transparency is our greatest asset, because if we end up lynched/nightkilled/etc., it shows that our thoughts are genuine and can be read in a different perspective going forward.

I understand not outing townreads - I dont believe that's a good idea unless I feel a scenario is tvt and everyone is focusing on those two players. But not giving justification for a vote and claiming "that's just how you play" benefits nobody. And I looked through your ISO for some of your completed games... yes, your playstyle is normally a bunch of one liners and shitposting, but I can see actual attempts at scumhunting and building cases on people. That isn't happening in this game so far, and that's why my vote is staying where it is.

[horrordude0215]

He's confirmed scum because he's done those things. Cause that's what scum does. Townies don't do those things,

or at least they shouldn't

TwoFace, the bolded part of this quote seems to indicate that you're at least pushing a PL on CoolDog based on LaL, because he lied about not joking in games and because of his comment that Wheme only rears his head when he was voted

for

, not only when he was voting as you said in your 387

You would rather policy lynch him and hope he is scum rather than actually scum hunt

You've spent a vast majority of the day tunneling on CD, mainly by what I feel is blowing things out of proportion. Come on.

[horrordude0215]

anyone wanna buy some fruit

I believe the fruit vendor claim for now. Wheme, please get to work though.

UNVOTE:

Will have to do some more reading to get other reads. I don't want CooLDog today though.

[horrordude0215]

I've stated a few times that I think the case on him has been based almost entirely of people (TwoFace mainly) blowing his posts way out of proportion.

[horrordude0215]

Gimme a sec to look at it

[horrordude0215]

I think you, like several others, have been tunneling on CD all day.

Your vote appears to have justification to it, but I don't agree with the case, and I think confbias has been coming into play because it's as if every single one of his posts have some sort of scumslip/tell in it.

[horrordude0215]

CD has had to spend most of the day defending himself from a Lynch All Liars case. I would like to see more scumhunting from him, but I'm just honestly not reading him as scum at the moment.

Regarding wheme's votes, they've all been terrible. He voted fitz to sheep implosion and then a terrible OMGUS-like vote on IAWS. He deserves the pressure that has been placed on him.

[horrordude0215]

I'm down to switch to a boon wagon for the time being if anyone cares to join me. I see a whole lot of nothing from the slot so far.

VOTE: Boon

Come join me Hans.

[horrordude0215]

You cant prove that he lied tho

You can only assume

I've already proven he's lied. When a person says things that aren't true, that's a lie.

He reacted poorly to the whole fake claim. Multiple people said it was a joke he said he doesn't have a sense of humor. So I search his posts and find multiple games where he makes jokes in games. For example he accuses somebody of being mafia cause they were 3rd to vote. Then said it was a joke.

Clearly he gets jokes, so he should have picked up on the fake claim joke. Which means his reaction WAS over the top and imo fake.

That's a deliberate attempt to mislead us into thinking something that just isn't true.

He also claimed WhemeStar only posts when voted, despite having posted multiple times in the game thread, even 2 hours before the first vote on him. As soon as he gets that vote, CD tips his hand and lets everyone know he's going to falsely accuse WhemeStar of only posting when voted.

Pretty sure there was a 3rd lie but can't remember without going back, but those 2 are more than enough to confirm to me that he isn't town. He can't be. Those are outright deceitful lies that should not be made by someone with a town role pm.

This is what I'm getting is the majority of your case.

Shit sorry forgot I was being quiet

TwoFace, please go back to this. If you want to talk about someone other than CoolDog, we can do that. But please for the love of God take of the tunnel vision goggles.

[horrordude0215]

If you want to talk about someone other than CoolDog, we can do that.

[horrordude0215]

Day 1 Tunneling is bad.

[horrordude0215]

Look at boon's ISO. I understand this game being slow paced with not a whole lot of discussion, but there has been absolutely no

attempts

at scumhunting. It's been more than inactivity.

[horrordude0215]

Scum fruit vendor claim only really comes into play when there's only one mafia left. Fruit vendor is usually used as a confirmable night action that proves they aren't the one that made the night kill. Until then, it's NAI.

[horrordude0215]

If you direct the fruit vendor shot, it can become an obvious NK chance for scum if Wheme is town which just leads to WIFOM galore. Comprehension is cool.

[horrordude0215]

Boon provided enough content that I'm comfortable removing my vote from him for now.

UNVOTE:

[horrordude0215]

Hey all, just a reminder that I'm V/LA on weekends. Will be back on Monday.

[horrordude0215]

@Mod: Vote count please?

I'll be reading more soon. But deadline is tomorrow and we need a lynch.

[horrordude0215]

I've already stated I don't like the CD lynch.

VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Next wagon, and looking through their ISO shows nothing except "My wagon is an easy mislynch so don't vote me"

[horrordude0215]

Do you guys think claims are good tho? I feel like a nice scum wagon with a vt claim is the ideal sitch

Elaborate? You claim at L-1. That's what you do...

[horrordude0215]

I do not want the CoolDog lynch whatsoever, but deadline is in 4 hours, and this thread has been dead between yesterday and today. I don't see this town getting off its ass and finding another wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CoolDog

L-1.

[horrordude0215]

This game has been a nonstop tunnel fest on CoolDog, and I don't buy any of the arguments for it. The only benefit to his lynch is that the distraction will be out of the way, but I am still vehemently opposed to his lynch.

[horrordude0215]

This game has been a nonstop tunnel fest on CoolDog, and I don't buy any of the arguments for it. The only benefit to his lynch is that the distraction will be out of the way, but I am still vehemently opposed to his lynch.

Complaining yet did nothing to try and get a wagon going on anybody else.

I started the Whemestar wagon before he claimed. I tried going for a different wagon. The fact is, reads in this game are hard as hell to gather because nothing has happened all game except discussion on whether one player's reaction to something that happened in RVS was legitimate.

You voted CoolDog on Page 3 and turned off the rest of the game. GTFO.

[horrordude0215]

I'm done with this for now.

See you all Day 2.

[horrordude0215]

I'm done with this for now.

See you all Day 2.

CD scum flip means you're next

Cool, town flip means you're next.

[horrordude0215]

Cool story bro.

[horrordude0215]

You cant prove that he lied tho

You can only assume

I've already proven he's lied. When a person says things that aren't true, that's a lie.

He reacted poorly to the whole fake claim. Multiple people said it was a joke he said he doesn't have a sense of humor. So I search his posts and find multiple games where he makes jokes in games. For example he accuses somebody of being mafia cause they were 3rd to vote. Then said it was a joke.

Clearly he gets jokes, so he should have picked up on the fake claim joke. Which means his reaction WAS over the top and imo fake.

That's a deliberate attempt to mislead us into thinking something that just isn't true.

He also claimed WhemeStar only posts when voted, despite having posted multiple times in the game thread, even 2 hours before the first vote on him. As soon as he gets that vote, CD tips his hand and lets everyone know he's going to falsely accuse WhemeStar of only posting when voted.

Pretty sure there was a 3rd lie but can't remember without going back, but those 2 are more than enough to confirm to me that he isn't town. He can't be. Those are outright deceitful lies that should not be made by someone with a town role pm.

This is your case. You stated that he lied about not having a sense of humor.

[horrordude0215]

And please attempt to justify why I would so blatantly and publicly try and defend CoolDog if we were scumbuddies together. Yes, it's WIFOM. No, I don't give a shit.

[horrordude0215]

I'm done with this for now.

See you all Day 2.

[horrordude0215]

Hey remember that time HorrorDude made a bad vote

Hey remember that time when you did literally anything worthwhile in this game?

[horrordude0215]

Fuck this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

I'm not going to be part of the CoolDog lynch. If you want him dead, find other people to join you.

[horrordude0215]

Fuck this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

I'm not going to be part of the CoolDog lynch. If you want him dead, find other people to join you.

Antitown as fuck. Even if you don't agree at this point a NL is worse.

Calm your tits. I'll be online until deadline, but I'm not voting CoolDog unless it's absolutely necessary.

[horrordude0215]

IAWS has literally only posted in the Queue Thread and this game. Are we sure it's a noob and not an alt? (Also forgive me if there's some magic way of telling this fact bc I don't deal with alts a lot)

[horrordude0215]

I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog again.

This is literally the only reason why I'm doing this.

VOTE: CoolDog

End my misery, Shaz.

[horrordude0215]

I'm gonna need to go to the fucking hospital after this. You're gonna drive my blood pressure through the roof.

[horrordude0215]

horror wasn't oddrole d1 even slower than this

Oddrole was about 18 pages Day 1, pretty slow paced but it picked up tempo after I had replaced in. But Day was pretty much ran entirely by lane who 1v1d everyone.

[horrordude0215]

My issue with the activity in this game is that it is solely centered around CoolDog and his reaction to what happened in RVS. There has been nothing of substance aside from that to help me get reads on anyone. TwoFace has been tunneling all day, and his pointing out CD's "slip" has dictated the course of discussion for virtually everyone else in the town. This entire game is a fucking board full of nullreads for me right now, and it's pissing me off.

[horrordude0215]

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore.

[horrordude0215]

My issue with the activity in this game is that it is solely centered around CoolDog and his reaction to what happened in RVS

If that were true how did a wheme wagon form? How did this iaws wagon form?

I started the wheme wagon as an attempt to get people to talk about literally anything else other than CoolDog. I could give two shits about how it looks either.

[horrordude0215]

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore.

serious question. in what way do you feel 2f was leading town?

"anymore" shouldn't have been included. He doesn't get to say who the lynch is if he spends all of Day 1 on a death tunnel of a townie.

[horrordude0215]

I fully understand my content day 1 hasn't been great, but I've been pressuring people with votes and trying to get something going in the game. Yeah, the reasoning has been shit but the pressure that has come from the votes has been semi-effective.

[horrordude0215]

I still stand by the fact that the CooLDoG lynch was a horrible decision. Whatever. I also understand where my play stood Day 1, and that I don't look great from a town perspective - I wasn't giving this game the attention it fully deserved, and I look forward to being able to dedicate more time to this.

What's done is done, now let's move on to the game. There is exactly 0% chance that this was an all town lynch wagon. Looking at each player on it:

TwoFace

I've already spent plenty of time going back and forth with TF about our separate opinions on the CooLDoG Case. He says he wasn't pushing a Lynch All Liars case. His posts 139, 325, 344, 370, etc., seem to contradict that. I could go on and quote every single time that he mentioned the word "lie", but he has 25 instances in his ISO alone and ain't nobody got time for that.

TwoFace, you say that you weren't pushing a Lynch all Liars case. But your whole explanation for why you felt CD's reaction was disingenuous was because he said that he doesn't have a sense of humor. You said that he has made jokes in previous games, but I searched through his posts and found nothing to corroborate this claim... Whatever. Your whole Day 1 was spent tunneling one person for an alleged slip and then using confirmation bias to continue pushing your agenda on him. Any other wagon yesterday was obviously crap according to you, and then you end Day 1 by stating that I am obvscum no matter what CooLDoG's flip turned out to be and implying that tomorrow was going to be spent discussing "why I am scum". You can pressure your scumreads, but tunneling and ignoring the rest of the game is anti-town.

Okay I've spent way too much time on TF at this point. My mental health needs a break.

Eddie Cane

Eddie jumped on the CD wagon in post 105 without explanation. He states that this CD post was "bad" in 124 without further explanation. He later says that his reason for voting CD early was because CD getting to type a "wall" early gave him town points, as if that would somehow clear him from having to produce content later in the game ("it also excuses him from having to take actual stances" was his exact wording). I don't buy it.

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

horror is basically advocating a pl which I'd adamantly disagree with

This is a direct contradiction. Also, it ignores the fact that in Post 353, I state that my main reason for pressuring Wheme was because I saw his playstyle differing in this game from his other town games when he was actually pressuring and scumhunting.

Superhans

Hans admits in Post 301 that he felt the CoolDog lynch was being pushed by rhetoric rather than logic. He then says that CD has been "flailing all day" in Post 384 and votes for CD seemingly because he didn't want WhemeStar... See Posts 429, 430, and 432.

Hans then spends the rest of the day talking primarily about the fruit vendor claim (which was useless and a waste of thread space) before V/LA-ing out for a week.

IAlwaysWinSometimes

Voted for CoolDog out of self preservation. Can't really comment much on alignment indication there. He hasn't produced much content thus far, and has even admitted such himself. He's getting a noob pass from a lot of players, but I'd like to see more effort.

implosion

Voted at deadline.

horrordude0215

I literally only switched to this wagon because it was deadline and we had to hammer.

Out of everyone on this wagon, I'm least thrilled with Hans and Eddie. Hans won't be back from V/LA for a few days, so for now:

VOTE: Eddie Cane

[horrordude0215]

TF, I'm trying my ass off not to scumread you right now. You're not helping.

[horrordude0215]

I fully admitted in my post that I did nothing day 1. I also said that I wasn't giving this game the attention it deserved, and promptly made a giant ass post overnight that I saved to submit as soon as day opened.

I'm not asking you to treat me as obvtown. I'm asking that you take off the fucking tunnel vision and focus on more than one player at a time.

[horrordude0215]

My play yesterday was crap because I've been tied up in another game. I can't say more than that, but you know exactly what I'm talking about. You did state that no one was responding to your case, and I was planning on going through it more in depth, but I got sucked into the back and forth with TF yesterday and I only had time to really go through this thread over the last day and a half or so.

[horrordude0215]

oh also it doesnt elt answer my wuestion. so you dont think 2f was leading town?

I didn't get a chance to answer this before thread lock yesterday.

No, I don't think he was leading town.

[horrordude0215]

No, I don't think he was leading town.

Yet you said I was...

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore.

serious question. in what way do you feel 2f was leading town?

"anymore" shouldn't have been included. He doesn't get to say who the lynch is if he spends all of Day 1 on a death tunnel of a townie.

Please read the fucking thread

or

and shut up.

[horrordude0215]

I read the thread. You quoted where you said it. Backtracking after doesn't change anything.

See if you were town you would know how to play this game. Each person who voted CD is singularly responsible for their own vote. Trying to put the blame on me is something scum would do.

If you are town, I'll gladly take the loss cause I got stuck in a game with players who play like crap on purpose for some reason

I'm. Not. Putting. Blame. On. You. I'm. Not. Even. Scumreading. You. You. Fucking. Imbecile.

I already stated that was a typo. But fine... let's humor you and say that I did previously think you were leading town. Why would it be so terrible that I see that question fro, Eddie, think about it, and go "Oh, you're right. He wasn't leading town. My mistake." and backtrack? How is it alignment indicative to recognize human error and correct it? It isn't, so quit fishing.

[horrordude0215]

If you wanted to attack my case, there was a full day to do it. I was very open to discussing. AFTER he flips town is not the time to take issue with a line of argument, and I stand by what I said.

So we're only allowed to discuss cases that are presented that day? Come on Eddie.

[horrordude0215]

If you wanted to attack my case, there was a full day to do it. I was very open to discussing. AFTER he flips town is not the time to take issue with a line of argument, and I stand by what I said.

So we're only allowed to discuss cases that are presented that day? Come on Eddie.

???

you want to attack a case made early in the previous day after the mislynch has gone through? are you not aware how insane the hindsight bias is with that? you're allowed to, yes, but the fact you didn't all of yesterday after me asking shoes you don't actually think it's a bad case until you have the knowledge it's a muslynch.

Dude, I was dealing with a game that had an average of over 10 pages per real life day, and I had to balance day scumchat on top of it. (It just ended, just for everyone else's information)

I haven't participated for shit in any of my games, so excuse me for not having the time to address your questions until now. If that makes you scumread me, so be it.

[horrordude0215]

And please acknowledge what I'm actually attacking. Your

entrance

onto the cooldog wagon was for crap reasoning, and it looked opportunistic and scummy. I don't need to dialogue with you to determine this.

[horrordude0215]

I'm not going to sit here and be sucked into a back and forth with you either, Eddie. Your entrance to the wagon was shit, and me being inactive yesterday doesn't suddenly mean that the entrance wasn't shit.

[horrordude0215]

Yeah I'm not going to talk to you.

[horrordude0215]

Dialoguing with TF implies that he has the capabilities to talk with someone without confbiasing literally everything they say as "omg obvscum". He's clearly proven that he doesn't have the mental capacity to do this, so continuing to go back and forth with him will only clutter the thread with anti-town nonsense.

[horrordude0215]

ok... 701 is the first post I can recall by Horror that I do not like. He is on the L-2 wagon of someone he suspects (iaws) but moves to another L-2 wagon on someone he absolutely doesn't want to see lynched. Why not make a final push for support on the iaws wagon? smh....bad Horror.

Look at my play at the end of yesterday - it was full of nothing but absolute frustration at this gamestate in general. We were only a few hours to deadline and I had all but given up on Day 1 at that point. I'm trying to chalk it up to a learning experience.

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, the difference between you and TwoFace is that I actually like you, but fine... Let me just state this again.

Yesterday, I had virtually no reads on anyone, I just felt that CoolDog's wagon was terrible. See Post 756 for an example of me stating this.

Did I state this as thoroughly as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I attack the cases as thoroughly as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I spend as much time scumhunting as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I spend too much time bitching about the wagon rather than being productive? Absolutely.
Did I get into a ridiculous back and forth with TF at the end of yesterday that was counterproductive at best? Yep, and it was a terrible idea.

I have admitted several times that my Day 1 play was crap. My early game play is usually crap tbh, but I'm working on improving it. What I fail to see though is how my play now is suddenly invalidated because I didn't comment on these things when given the chance yesterday. Just because I didn't read the thread as thoroughly as I should have Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads don't matter now that I have read it Day 2, especially having flips to look back on and give me perspective I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

[horrordude0215]

Please explain what good can possibly come out of going back and forth with you about your opinions on my Day 1 play, TwoFace. If your play today is going to be anything like yesterday when you spent the entire day only focusing on CoolDog, continuing to engage with you is only going to clutter the thread. I see no pro-town motivation for continuing this conversation, honestly.

If your read on me is going to change, it's not going to be because of anything I say directly to you. It's going to be based on your observations of me interacting with the rest of the game and players. Hell, probably 75% of the posts so far today have been you, myself, and Eddie, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out scum are lurking watching town destroy itself.

[horrordude0215]

Let me put it this way: What could I say to you directly right now that would cause you to change your read on me?

[horrordude0215]

Your entrance to the wagon was shit, and me being inactive yesterday doesn't suddenly mean that the entrance wasn't shit.

You took time to call me out on my push on Cd, but not him?

Why not?

The reason why I called you out instead of Eddie was because you started the Cooldoc lynch wagon and were, I felt, the main force behind its existence at the time. I didn't pressure Eddie because I hadn't even really looked to the other players on the wagon. As I've stated several times, I wasn't focusing on the game in general until after the game went to night. Yes, this makes me look terrible, and I fully accept this fact. Hell, I can even say now evaluating my play that in many ways I was tunneling your case alone and being a hypocritical fuck for calling you out for doing the same thing on CD.

My contributions to town yesterday... I pushed a few lurkers with votes and got some content out of people - boon was completely inactive until I voted him, I still think that Wheme is being useless, and IAWS has been marginally better today I guess?

I already said I was terrible yesterday, and I look forward to being able to now give this game the attention it deserves. Whether you continue to scumread me for my Day 1 play is completely up to you.

[horrordude0215]

Fitz is scum also

Can you explain this read for me?

[horrordude0215]

Like I've said - me playing like crap Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads Day 2 are suddenly null and void. If you have an issue with the fact that I jumped on you for your crappy entrance onto the CD wagon, tell me why I'm wrong. Just saying "You had the chance to discuss it but you missed your opportunity" and ignoring the case looks bad.

[horrordude0215]

speak of the devil!

VOTE: cooldog

Eddie first jumps on cooldog with what amounts to a naked vote with no justification.

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

I don't have a sense of humor.

Yet you have made posts in games you later said was a joke...

meta is bullshit and correlates with bad lynches.

oh man that cmm wagon is pretty slick

Unvote

VOTE: CMM

it is, but we don't have many cmm posts to go off of, need him to post more.

Why do people insist on making town lists ?? What value is in it??

there isn't any. It just gives scum good nk targets.

no clue, read lists are stupid and should never be done

scum lists aree somewhat useful in later days, not d1 and certainly not this early into d1.

Were you intending to take me up on the offer (is that what the "speak of the devil!" meant??) or were you just changing votes?

Either way, I'm a frog of my word so

Unvote: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Vote: CooLDoG

fite me

not an omgus, but you literally just said you like the cmm wagon. Seems like fishing for the easiest wagon to be on, as superhans points out in his next post.

This post is bad. as are his others. happy with my vote here.

Eddie states that these posts are "bad". Generic post, no legitimate reasoning, especially because CD's responses are actually pretty valid?

Somebody who makes jokes should have totally seen that claim as a joke

...sometimes people miss things?

in particular i feel like cooldog is the kind of person who'd possibly take something like that literally. This isn't from scanning random games, this is from having seen him post on ms for years in discussion forums. And i certainly don't think he'd lie as scum about thinking that it was legitimate when he knew it was a joke. it's mostly moot anyway. it's not a strong read.

Do you think he's scum lying about having thought it was serious? What is the scum motivation for lying about something so arbitrary when everyone else would obviously know it's a joke?

scum motivation is a free large content post. he got to type a wall early in the game and 'contribute' to town

seriously. what it allows him to do is make a case and appear to be contributing to town. he didn't actually take it seriously, no competent player would ever take that seriously IMO, and he doesn't expect to be sheeped on it. it let's him push an unrealistic bad angle hard and "genuinely" and get off from it scrape free. it also excuses him from having to take actual stances. this is scum, fucking lynch it.

His reasoning for why he voted CD in the first place all has to do with the fact that CD was supposedly using an early "wall" post to skate through the game and not have to take stances.... which is not only nonsensical, it's also completely incorrect.

[horrordude0215]

The CD Lynch was horrible, and his allegedly scummy play was based entirely on players overreaching and misrepping pretty much every post he made.

[horrordude0215]

There have been 116 posts since the thread was unlocked for day - 83 (over 70% of them) have been made by either Eddie, TF, or myself.

This is why I don't like getting into back and forths. It encourages lurking from scum because it makes it seem less obvious that they're actually lurking, and why I don't want to keep hammering the same points and going in circles.

[horrordude0215]

Superhans

Hans admits in Post 301 that he felt the CoolDog lynch was being pushed by rhetoric rather than logic. He then says that CD has been "flailing all day" in Post 384 and votes for CD seemingly because he didn't want WhemeStar... See Posts 429, 430, and 432.

Hans then spends the rest of the day talking primarily about the fruit vendor claim (which was useless and a waste of thread space) before V/LA-ing out for a week.

This was my commentary on Hans - This hasn't really changed... The apology is still throwing me off, actually. The only reasoning I can think of is that he was apologizing for jumping on the wagon when he knew I didn't want the CD lynch. Why he felt obliged to apologize to me instead of other people who I believe were speaking out against it instead, I have no clue.

I don't like his vote at all, and I would rather pressure him more than Eddie but he's V/LA at the moment.

[horrordude0215]

Best bet for scum on the wagon: Hans followed by Eddie, but the former read is currently stronger than the latter.

Haven't looked quite so much off the wagon yet. Will do that today or try to find time this weekend.

[horrordude0215]

Looking off of the CD Wagon:

DeathRowKitty, Kop, WhemeStar, havingfitz, DeSully

DRK

- Post 293 she states that she's uncomfortable with the votes on the CD Wagon but doesn't provide reasoning for it. Let's not get into the irony of me pointing this out.
- Post 560 is where she votes IAWS because she felt their 535 felt disingenuous. I disagree. To me, the quoted post meant that IAWS was still apparently scumreading Wheme despite the claim and they wanted to know if it was a legitimate claim.

so you think CD is scum but a bad lynch? like, your first part says he's individually scummy, so what "other standpoint" are you referring too?

This is just simple mafia theory + twisting of my words. Given how I've been playing this game, if you'd have an actual problem with my views on the CooLDoG wagon, you should also almost certainly have a problem with my play for all of day 1. Given you expressed no such thing, I see no particular reason to engage with you on the theory behind it.

This is more @Eddie and TwoFace - DRK had similar play with me yesterday, expressing disapproval for the CD lynch without giving specific reasons against the cases. Why jump on my case about it and not hers?

Kop

- I literally had no idea Kop was in this game until now. The only thing he has commented on was whether or not Wheme should be directed on who he sends the fruit to, which was his whole reasoning for jumping on the IAWS wagon.

WhemeStar

- Post 228 finally makes sense in that Wheme was mad at Darklyn for softing the fruit vendor claim. I still don't like the naked vote on Desully when he replaced in without explanation though.
- Votes IAWS for "trying to hop on an easy wagon". Why IAWS instead of any other 4 people on your wagon at that point? Especially when you had previously stated that the 3 votes on you at the time were horrible?
- Post 403 he scumreads the people on his wagon except myself and Hans. I started the wagon, and Hans jumped on it blindly with no justification, so I'm more than a little confused why he wasn't scumreading the two of us as well at the time.
- He claims he gave his fruit to TF because TF is going to be town leader.
- His vote on fitz in 871 looks like a blatant OMGUS.

Fitz

- Fitz hasn't done much this game save a few catchup walls. He avoided the lynch wagon because he was inactive, but he seemed to express some pretty serious doubt on CD - maybe setting up a later game Mislynch if he didn't get lynched yesterday? Meh, it's a weak argument, but he hasn't given us much to work with as of yet.

Desully

- You've had 33 posts in this game but every one of them is basically crap?

I'm not in love with the players that were off of the wagon, but with 3/5 of them (Kop, Fitz, Desully) being pretty much bleh for 90% of Day 1 it's hard to solidly read anything.

[horrordude0215]

this thread is slow as fuck reading a game like this is REALLY not a tall order

+1 on this.

VOTE: Hans

Better use of my vote than Eddie for the time being anyways.

[horrordude0215]

*sigh*

[horrordude0215]

Scum fruit vendor claim only really comes into play when there's only one mafia left. Fruit vendor is usually used as a confirmable night action that proves they aren't the one that made the night kill. Until then, it's NAI.

This logic is terrible.

If there is only one mafia left, the fruit vendor claim doesn't save them. The only way this post makes sense is if he's talking about a Town fruit vendor, not a Mafia fruit vendor.

Yeah, my wording may have been off. I was referring to the fact that a fruit vendor is never considered town cleared unless there's only one scum left, someone received a fruit that evening

and

there was a nightkill.

[horrordude0215]

I'm mobile posting right now so I don't have much time, but IAWS, good play. Always out your guilties when you get them.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DRK

L-1

[horrordude0215]

@horror...why are you focusing off the CD wagon? He was a mislynch you know? There just might have been one or two scum on his wagon.

Ummmm.... I looked at all candidates that were on the mislynch wagon on my first post of Day 2. TF asked my opinions on who the scum were both on and off the wagon, so I was responding to him. Are you implying that scum wouldn't intentionally avoid the mislynch wagon?

[horrordude0215]

Slight prod dodge. Just started a new job this week so I've been getting used to my new schedule. Expect something more substantive today or tomorrow.