Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[Infinity 324]

Riley votes spade but it's for an early game wagon and with an easy way out. She was also incredibly scummy but on the ww lynch wagon, so...

[-Grey-]

Riley was my strongest d1 townread, so you can just STFU about that slot.

It's a bitch move to bag on somebody simply because you don't like their playstyle.

Any efforts at lynching that slot better be based on AJ, because I'll slam any posts bitching about Riley right down the player's throat because it's a weak shit tactic to try to paint playstyle as scummy.

[Infinity 324]

It's not based on her playstyle, it's based on how much she was adding to the game for how much she posted. There's way too much fluff there.

[-Grey-]

And I'm saying I know better.

Her shtick gets under people's skin. Duh. Bit it's stupid to lynch somebody simply because you don't like the way they play.

There is plenty of content in Riley's posts for anyone than wants to actually pull their head out of their ass and read it.

[Infinity 324]

I did read it, I just don't see where the content is. The shtick has nothing to do with my scumread on her.

Riley kind of reminds me of alisae. Just cause she posts weirdly doesn't mean you can't read her tone and content.

[davesaz]

Votecount

2.5

Kop (5 L-1) : -Grey-, Aj the Epic, Spade_Ace, Lil Uzi Vert, Hiraki
Spade_Ace (3) : Umlaut, Kop, Infinity 324

Not Voting (3) : BTD6_maker, Darklyn, Aristophanes

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends Sun April 2 1030 MST (UTC-7) (expired on 2017-04-02 10:30:00)

[-Grey-]

Just did a quick skim in Kop and Lucca's Isosceles and could easily see scum there. Happy to hammer when the time is right.

It's been two pages with nothing of note happening since he was placed at L-1.

Hammer away.

[Hiraki]

Or say something nice and then hammer

[Umlaut]

Spoiler: Interactions between Hans and Spade_Ace

5 to lynch.

Space Ace is at L1

Probably not significant. I do want to say it's a little unlikely for Hans to screw up his partner's name.

Later on, Hans votes Spade and they have a little conversation.

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

Why do you deserve to live, Spady? What are you actually doing to deserve not being lynched today?

No offense. But that is a stupid question. I deserved to be killed if you think am a scum not based on my activity. And if activity is the parameter, then there are others who deserve to eat rope before me.

Don't you think it is weird the way QT is pushing for my lynch without giving any reason? I have played with transcend before and he knows I am an easy lynch. If I do end up getting lynched today, lynch QT the next day. Am almost certain they are scum.

So first of all, Spade's tone here does not exactly give me a warm towny feeling. You would think something like "Spade never comes out and says 'I'm a bad suspect,' only 'other people are better suspects'" is too obvious to be a legit tell, but every time I tell someone off because that's too stupid to work, it ends up working, so.

Aside from that, though, Hans' push actually is not very good ("What are you doing to deserve not being lynched?"), and doesn't seem like enough reason to pick one person out of twelve as your top suspect,

especially

not if you're evil and can pick whoever is easiest to push without worrying about whether they're really truly scum. Making a lame unconvincing push like this is suggestive of distancing.

Hans' additional explanations for his vote don't really help:

Voted Spade because i thought his iso was just filler.

I voted Spade cos i agree it is a nice place for my vote to be.

my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him. i just didn't like his content.

This all contributes to the idea that Hans doesn't really want Spade lynched.

Gradually Hans comes around to a town lean on Spade:

{LUV, Matt, Riley}
{Spade}
{Chilled Tea, QT}
{BTD6, Lucca, Grey}
{Omega}

(SPOILER ALERT: Hans later denies ever having townread Spade.)

Conversely there is Spade's read on Hans:

Hans: NULL/Town Lean
To me, he looks like a townie who says scummy stuff. A townie who is concerned about other's perception of himself and worried that others might scumread him. Can relate to it. He is quite open about his thought process. I doubt whether scum would flipflop so eaily especially when pressurized by someone else. Him defending Cake 381, also seems town indicative. It will be worrisome only if he has done something similar as Scum. Haven't read the game that Lucaa posted.

This read pings me hard.

• "Scummy stuff" is by definition the sort of stuff that scum are more likely to say than town.
  
• Being so worried about being scumread is a fairly reliable scumtell.
  
• Townreading a person specifically for flipflopping is pretty dubious.
  
• The remaining reason for a townread ("defending Cake") is just not enough to overwhelm the rest of this.
  
• The "it will be worrisome if" seems to be leaving wiggle room to reverse the read if necessary.

(His read on Grey seems artificial as well -- Grey's play in this game is hard to be null on.)

Upon questioning, Hans' read on Spade seems to be, "I find him a little suspicious, but I don't really think he's scum, but I sort of do, I guess, but stop saying that I do. Or that I don't."

Later on, after Hans is lynched, Spade comments:

@grey nice work. I thought hans was town for sure. Meta helped you huh?

Hold on a minute here...

Hans: NULL/Town Lean

I thought hans was town for sure.

Hans: NULL/Town Lean

I thought hans was town for sure.

Obvious defense: "Spade gradually became more sure Hans was town. It happens."

Okay, but in that case why did he offer

not a single word

in defense of Hans in 15+ pages between those two posts? When exactly did this read change, and why would Spade keep it to himself when Hans was on the chopping block? One possibility is that he's just lazy, and to be fair Spade had only one post in that period which was essentially a prod dodge. But another possibility is that Spade couldn't decide what side of the wagon he wanted to be on. The scum dilemma when your buddy is up for lynch is, "I want to defend him if and only if defending him will actually save him; I want to bus him if and only if he's dying whether I bus him or not." It seems like Hans couldn't cleanly be put in either of these categories, which is likely to lead to indecisiveness on his buddy's part. Spade's period of inactivity fits right in to this -- he disappears just as the Hans wagon stops building, and as a result never has to take a position on it.

Conclusion:

I still like the Spade wagon more than the Kop wagon.

[Infinity 324]

That's a really good case actually.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you saying that because you're adamantly against Kop lynch or is this your belief? TBH infinity, you're acting strange.

[Infinity 324]

I already thought spade was scum and kop was town, but the case is making me think spade is actually the werewolf.

I'm not sure what's so strange about that. I'm also not sure why you apparently disagree with the case but are not responding to it.

[Hiraki]

Infinity is VI AJ, just look at why he's SRing me.

[BTD6_maker]

I mostly agree with Umlaut's case. At this stage it is certainly possible that Spade is WW. I currently have a weak-moderate wolfread on Spade, and am willing to vote here at the moment instead of Kop.

VOTE: Spade Ace

[davesaz]

Please welcome Not_Mafia who replaces Darklyn.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Kop

[Hiraki]

hi

[Aristophanes]

Just did a quick skim in Kop and Lucca's Isosceles and could easily see scum there. Happy to hammer when the time is right.

It's been two pages with nothing of note happening since he was placed at L-1.

Hammer away.

<3

VOTE: Kop

Although pretty sure NM hammered on entry! Classic XD

I'll try to catch up in the night!

[davesaz]

Votecount

2.6

Kop (6) : -Grey-, Aj the Epic, Spade_Ace, Lil Uzi Vert, Hiraki, Not_Mafia (LYNCH)
Spade_Ace (4) : Umlaut, Kop, Infinity 324, BTD6_maker

Not Voting (1) : Aristophanes

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends Sun April 2 1030 MST (UTC-7) (expired on 2017-04-02 10:30:00)

[davesaz]

After lynching Kop you discover he was

Town

.

The mafia's hit list consists of:
Aj The Epic, Aristophanes, BTD6_maker

Night 2 ends Thu March 30, 2300 MST (UTC-7) (expired on 2017-03-30 23:00:00)

[davesaz]

In the morning you discover Aj the Epic has been killed, and that he was

Town

.

Votecount

3.1

Not Voting (9) : Aristophanes, -Grey-, Spade_Ace, Lil Uzi Vert, Hiraki, Not_Mafia, Umlaut, Infinity 324, BTD_Maker

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends Thu April 13 1130 PM MST (UTC-7) (expired on 2017-04-13 23:30:00)

[-Grey-]

Will, Aristo is pretty much confirmed town now.

[davesaz]

Also FYI I'll be V/LA

next

Friday afternoon 4/7 around 4 MST through Sunday around noon, for camping.
We may have cell service and I may be able to do rudimentary VC's. The campground is relatively near a town.

[Infinity 324]

Will, Aristo is pretty much confirmed town now.

Why?

VOTE: spade

[-Grey-]

Will, Aristo is pretty much confirmed town now.

Why?

VOTE: spade

He's been in both lists.

I don't see him being a wolf, and mafia wouldn't be keeping themselves listed to be killed.