Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Vifam]

Prodging atm

[Vifam]

The amount of wagon shifts this game has had is honestly worrisome

[Vifam]

I feel like ABR had an ok start but as his play progresses here Im starting to not like him, he's playing aggressively but not necessarily in a way that I feel is actually trying to impact the game

[Albert B. Rampage]

Okay maybe ABR flipped scum lol no it is so RARE you ever wagon 2 scum in a row let alone 1 on day 1 the fact everyone is okay with both these wagons should be red flag city showing scum are okay with this like this is mafia 101

Funny, Day 1 of the scumgame that Clumsy linked me to consisted entirely of jockeying back and forth between two players the entire day with not even the slightest hint of a wagon forming on anyone else, with one person going "I don't like these two wagons and think scum are lurking on the wagons".
That person was scum. One of those two people being wagoned were scum (Clumsy Phoenix themselves).

I note also that this game serves as minor evidence that their "always scumread" thing is not entirely alignment indicative. They aren't like Maria is basically claiming to be -- only ever scumread as town -- and they are certainly self-aware enough to use this shield AS scum. I haven't finished reading the game yet to my satisfaction, though, and then I still need to take a look at some of their town games.

Tywin makes it real easy for his rhetorical opponents because of how excitable he is, how reductive he seems to get about his opponent's arguments once he scumreads them, and the sheer volume of words he puts out making it easy to find holes.

This, in turn, is making it hard for me to tell if CP has stepped up their game or if they just found an easy person to argue with.

Imperium, I would actually like to hear your hard sell on why Tywin is town, if you don't mind.

In the meantime, I'm moving back.

VOTE: Maria

Wow why arent you voting Clumsy. This makes no sense from a town perspective

[Albert B. Rampage]

No I understand now. Socrates unvoted so he can hammer Clumsy. Not going to happen.

UNVOTE:

[Albert B. Rampage]

I only trust myself, majiffy, tywin or a50 to hammer.

[Vifam]

I didn't even realize he was at L1

[Vifam]

Im still ok with a Clumsy lynch he's the scummiest of the people in this game atm

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree but Socrates should put his vote back on and not be greedy

[Socrates]

Literally the only thing that I read that actually supported Clumsy!scum is the notion that their "inherent scumminess" seems to follow them regardless of alignment and was saying that I hesitate to read too much into their interaction with Tywin because Tywin, but I'm

less

confident in their scumminess than I started.

I suppose this was a failure in communication on my part. Allow me to try again:

My

intention

with that post was to draw attention to Maria's trying to use the lack of competing wagons as evidence that their wagons were bad, when I was literally reading a game that contradicted that sentiment.

Did you even read my follow up with Almost?

And Albert, do you really think scum!Clumsy would still be holding any dragon balls? I'll have to double check, but Im

pretty

sure that there was a window where they weren't the leading wagon, and they would have gotten rid of their balls post-haste if they were scum. How does that fit with you thinking I'm just angling for a hammer?

[Socrates]

Now I need to go back and see if their vote on Not Chara made NC's wagon bigger than his.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Did you even read my follow up with Almost?

Which one?

I didn't keep track of any window of time where they could transfer the balls, but I suppose that makes sense.

VOTE: Clumsy

[Socrates]

The similarities were only surface level, but there were key differences in circumstances that I did not want to get into too deeply since I have not finished reading what I want to read.

For one, CP lurked their asses off when placed in those competing wagons and let their belligerent counterpart dig their own grave, which they have not done here. but I need to see how day 2 went (where they got lynched) before I can judge how this might have informed their play going forward.

The scum profile I imagined for them also isn't panning out in general, so I'm moving my vote off of an L-2 until I Find footing with them again.

I can see where you're coming from, but I, as town, am not going to leave my vote somewhere I am uncomfortable.

I was also curious if people would follow me back onto Maria, myself.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Stop pussyfooting, we're lynching Clumsy, get on board!

[Socrates]

And before you ask, the "scum profile" I had in mind was that Sharizo was having legit performance anxiety about not fucking up their scumgame for his hydra partner/friend, and that being why he was afraid to do literally anything without Clumsy's approval, even talk about minor reads or game events. Though Now that I think about it, I was looking to see if this would be their first go as scum, but it being their second after a bad first try does still fit, I guess.

Pre-edit:uhgggg, I want to see Imperium comment one way or the other about the current gamestate!

Ugh, and we DO need to talk about hammering in case of mislynch/incompetent scum. Who do we want to do this?

In the meantime, I guess consider this l-1 for CP. I am not averse to seeing a claim from them.

Albert, what do YOU do with a CP townflip? And don't you "he won't flip town" me!

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd look at everyone who sat quietly by and benefitted from the lynch without any skin in the game.

[Socrates]

I'd look at everyone who sat quietly by and benefitted from the lynch without any skin in the game.

A good answer. I was hoping for a name or two, but I think the real "side liners" here are pretty clear.

I want you to hammer, Albert. How about you and I switch? You unvote and and I'll hop on the wagon.

[Tywin Lannister]

Like Clumsy is all about talking in circles with how town they are for being cautious and not wanting to get lynched, but if they were town, their sole goal should be to get someone other than them lynched. The only confirmed player each townie has is themselves. So why hasn't Clumsy pushed to form a counter wagon? Stuff like that doesn't make any sense to me.

No, our sole goal should be to get scum lynched once we find 'em. We'd found 'em, it's you, we're pushing on you. You're doing it again.

Holy fuck, we've been talking about reads on: Zefiend, Socrates, MariaR, ABR
Mind you, those are just the ones that come to mind immediately. So your "you are just floating my name and have no seperate reads" is pretty blatant bullshit. You are sitting there lying your ass off about what is happening in the hopes that when we flip town (which you know we will), you'll be able to say "Oh but see just like I said, this and this!" and hope people don't realize that it's a blatant and obvious lie. We aren't "just claiming you're scum as if that makes it true", we have said -many- times now our reasons for believing you to be scum. You keep pretending we haven't because you're really hoping to convince people that we haven't, but literally looking at our ISO shows many times we've said "No, this is why we are scumreading you". We aren't talking in circles, we're talking incredibly directly and you are handwaving everything we say and returning to the same thing you just said. -You- are talking in circles.

But you are arguing that there's no way you'd get away with mislynching us. All the while making sure to try and bullshit your way to getting away with mislynching us.

If you flipped town, we'd look at the other people on your wagon and their reason for changing to a scumread on you. We'd probably want to look more into Zefiend, because as I've said he's a townlean but his current behavior isn't helping that stay up. Not sure what clumsy would do.

-Shaziro

You really seem to misunderstand what I'm getting at with every post. You floated random halfhearted names out there as if people will just sheep it. Your SRs haven't been pushed with much force, at least in my personal opinion (which is subjective). I'm just explaining how I see it, so stop getting angry all the time. You'll see post game that I was always straightforward with my thoughts, right or wrong. Just saying 'this person is scum' a few times isn't scum hunting or pushing a wagon. It's just randomly saying a name. You haven't given a real case on anyone (again., in my subjective opinion) that hard sells your belief that they're actually scum, let alone reasons why besides some WIFOM here and there., It feels like you either haven't tried or don't have anything to back up your reads, and because of that, my opinion is you don't really believe them. Not believing your SRs would be due to being scum and knowing alignments already.

The other aspect is that you seem to want to stay on the defense instead of going on offense after your SRs. Again, this makes me subjectively believe that you don't truly SR anyone. Even when I throw you softball questions for you to do something with, you still would rather not swing and hope for a walk. Maybe this is your playstyle in general, but if you get SR in every single game for this style, why do it? It's obviously something most people read as scummy, and I'm one of them. Again, your SRs feel halfhearted with little to no force behind them. IMO, it means you don't really believe these people are scum. It's harder to fake a SR as scum than to really believe it, right or wrong, as town.

Add in the fact that you're more worried about being SR than legitimately finding scum, the lack of joining the Maria or Majiff wagons instead of letting your own continue, and it just looks weird if town. I just really think you're scum here, especially since you guys aren't new, manipulate your own meta as scum, and there's precedent for this playstyle of yours while being scum. You seem to not want to even discuss that point, and any time I ask a question, you get all pissed off and start insulting over honest discussion. There's something definitely off about your slot.

Could I be wrong? Yep. I like your answer about if I was town, what you'd do. Thing here is that you don't have to be the lynch today, but who else should be? If me, what posts specifically look scummy to you? And who would be my scum buddies? Almost/ABR? Vifam? Who? I don't think my lynch would go through, so who else do you strongly SR that isn't just based on pushing your wagon? Etc etc? If you flipped town, your reads would still help town in the long run. At least flesh them out. The only reason not to is if you really are scum, because then those reads can be used against your scum team, and it's hard to subjectively pick the right players to give reads on when scum, not to mention that it's a pointless exercise if a scum player already accepts that they're going to be.

Oh and I know you've said 'many times' why you think I'm scum, but it's all WIFOM based, no real posts saying 'this exact post is scummy, or really anything that most would say is a legit scum tell. It's just an opinion based on me pushing your lynch. Majiff had the same opinion, but he lied plenty of times to get there. Flesh your SR on me out if you really believe it.

[Clumsy Phoenix]

I'm here but in class and will answer you after class soc. Please don't lynch until then.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd look at everyone who sat quietly by and benefitted from the lynch without any skin in the game.

A good answer. I was hoping for a name or two, but I think the real "side liners" here are pretty clear.

I want you to hammer, Albert. How about you and I switch? You unvote and and I'll hop on the wagon.

Sure.

UNVOTE:

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm here but in class and will answer you after class soc. Please don't lynch until then.

Yeah, you will have time to claim, to respond, and to solicit aid from tammy+nacho.

[Tywin Lannister]

When I say flesh it out, it means ask questions, sort players, do anything other than angry defense. When will you ask me a question Clumsy? Or do you both just randomly believe your reads without thought or question? When you're wrong, it's pretty much your own fault then, because you didn't try to find out. Apparently, only a flip of whomever will ever give you any info, because you don't ask questions. That's what I mean when I say you haven't scum hunted or tried to sort anyone. Granted, my opinion is subjective like always, but that's how I see it.

Pedit: is clumsy L1? Did he claim yet? I need to catch up.

[Socrates]

VOTE: Clumsy Phoenix

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm also ok with ABR hammering. But yeah, wait for the claim. Idk why he couldn't just do it right when he posted though. That seems odd. I remember my role without looking.

[Tywin Lannister]

Did you just hammer? Without waiting for a claim? Or is he L1 now?