Mini 1898 - Inception Mafia - The Hub (GAME OVER)

[Neko Tail]

thank you. :>

so to word it another way, it's impossible to leave a dream without relying on another player to kick you out?

and rewording your first answer: in a situation in the main thread where there has not been a main thread lynch yet, and there are dreams occurring in the game, no one in the main thread can be lynched until every dream is gone?

There may or may not be abilities affecting this, but by standard rules, you need to be kicked to leave a dream. This can be done by a player, or by a forced kick due to not enough players being in the dream anymore.

For your second question: you are correct.

Mod: Can you confirm or deny that only Afflictions determine all abilities, even for mafia players?

Players have only received an alignment, and they will randomly receive an affliction when this phase ends. I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of anything else.

actually i think that needs clarification, you might be right.

can you only see the dream spawned from the thread you're in, or can you see all of its subdreams too?

You can also see all subdreams.

@mod does the deadline reset only on a mainthread lynch, or also on a dream lynch?

Deadline never resets. Time up, game over.
Of course, this has to be taken with a grain of salt. If we are late for doing an important action, we will compensate the lost time again. We may also halt the deadline or the entire game in case of a replacement (which is why we'd rather have none).

[Not Chara]

that's true.
but don't forget scum regain perception at twice the rate of town. and you have to dream pretty deep to take a big chunk out of their perception. plus, it's impossible to control how deep the dreaming players go once they've left the thread you're in. they can't read the thread above, so the players can't listen to input.

a point i do want to make is we

have

to send scum into dreams. we only have one main thread lynch. the only other way to kill scum is to shove them into a dream, then have then be lynched in that dream so they go to limbo. (and then, hopefully, lynched in limbo so they actually flip, though we can win without that.)
so thinking of it like that... we need to send both scummy players and strong town players into dreams to ensure the scum go to limbo.
basically, it's going to be really, really fun. (in theory)

[Infinity 324]

Mm

I'm thinking we should try to get 3 players in limbo ASAP so they can lynch. Flips will help a lot.

[Not Chara]

Deadline never resets. Time up, game over.

oh. hm.
so, initiating a kick late game, if we're relying on a deep dream to stretch the deadline, could cost us the game.

this changes things. time is a precious commodity. at maximum, the deadline for the entire game is 2 months and 10 days, and that's assuming we have a fourth-level dream to stretch it. realistically, the deadline would be more like a month and 17 days (third-level dream).

so, we should decide on what to do when the game starts during the pregame, ideally.

[Infinity 324]

@mod: How exactly does time stretching work? Is the remaining time on the deadline preserved when there's a kick, or does it return to the original 2 weeks - whatever time we've used?

[Not Chara]

Deadline is universal and runs at the speed of the deepest dream. If the dreaming party at the deepest level comes back from that dream, the deadline will be divided by 1.5 for each dream level difference.

time stretches, time shrinks.

[Infinity 324]

So it's neither one, basically we get extended time only when there are dreams going on. Interesting.

I'm thinking perception may not be a huge factor. We probably won't want to kick multiple times unless we think there are a lot of scum on level 3.

[Leonshade]

If Afflictions aren't confirmed to be the only power scum have, I'm more in favor of caution when it comes to claiming.

that's true.
but don't forget scum regain perception at twice the rate of town. and you have to dream pretty deep to take a big chunk out of their perception. plus, it's impossible to control how deep the dreaming players go once they've left the thread you're in. they can't read the thread above, so the players can't listen to input.

a point i do want to make is we

have

to send scum into dreams. we only have one main thread lynch. the only other way to kill scum is to shove them into a dream, then have then be lynched in that dream so they go to limbo. (and then, hopefully, lynched in limbo so they actually flip, though we can win without that.)
so thinking of it like that... we need to send both scummy players and strong town players into dreams to ensure the scum go to limbo.
basically, it's going to be really, really fun. (in theory)

I had read the perception thing competely wrong, I thought a scum lynch nets extra perception. Sunday morning was not the best time to start figuring this setup out.

[Infinity 324]

Or we hit level 4 multiple times.

Are there any other situations where we should kick?

[Leonshade]

Mm

I'm thinking we should try to get 3 players in limbo ASAP so they can lynch. Flips will help a lot.

Aaand I missed that players in limbo can lynch. That also changes a lot.

So that's why we might want to bring people back from limbo, we have to send town there to lynch people so we can get our flips.

[Infinity 324]

...what if we just sent everyone into limbo except 2 universal townreads?

[Leonshade]

Limbo still counts as death, so no.

[Infinity 324]

Limbo still counts as death, so no.

Yeah, and?

[Leonshade]

Limbo still counts as death, so no.

Yeah, and?

So we send too many townies to limbo, it's game over.

[Not Chara]

we can use kicks in the beginning of the game. less as it goes.
also oh god i have to go to bed i can already tell this game will cause my death

[Infinity 324]

Limbo still counts as death, so no.

Yeah, and?

So we send too many townies to limbo, it's game over.

If we send all the scum there, it doesn't matter.

[Not Chara]

i don't think sending everyone to limbo is even possible. try running a simulation with the dreaming rules, it doesn't work. you need 5 players to even create a new dream, and you can't send to limbo from the main thread.

[Leonshade]

I mean that would be the most hilarious way to win a game ever, just sending the scumteam to limbo in one fell swoop. But even if we figured out a way to do it, it would be easy for scum to make it backfire.

Suggestion makes me think Inf is town, that seems like the kind of off-the-cuff lateral thinking that you can only do when you're genuinely looking for a solution to a problem. Like I don't think a scum player would easily come up with that idea, and I don't think scum!Inf would be spending his time trying to come up with creative suggestions he can throw out.

[Infinity 324]

Can you kick from dream threads?

[Infinity 324]

Either way, I'm thinking we want to kill/limbo as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Policy or otherwise.

[Infinity 324]

Policy-limboing inactive players seems especially helpful since they don't flip anyway and since the game requires so much activity.

[Leonshade]

Limboing people haphazardly can still backfire, bringing people back isn't easy. And it denies us their PRs, as well as their contribution to the game thread.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe, but the way I see it we get a certain amount of lynches (which is a lot) but limited deadline time, and the only way we can make use of all those lynches is by using them quickly. Of course we'll have people claim before we limbo them. As for contribution to the game thread, the type of people we will limbo either won't be contributing very much or (unfortunately) will probably be ignore since everyone scumreads them.

[Neko Tail]

@mod: How exactly does time stretching work? Is the remaining time on the deadline preserved when there's a kick, or does it return to the original 2 weeks - whatever time we've used?

How we will work: when a dream starts on a level on which there currently is no dream, the remaining deadlines is converted to hours and multiplied by 1.5; when that dream stops and there are no other dreams at that level or higher anymore, the remaining deadline is converted to hours and divided by 1.5 again.

Using 1 hour in the main thread is thus equal to using 1.5 hours when there is a level 1 dream.

Can you kick from dream threads?

Yes, but then all sub-dreams will be kicked back to that dream thread, and not all the way to the main thread.


I have also seen some confusion:

Mafia does NOT earn extra perception on a lynch; extra perception is earned by everyone when a member of the mafia is lynched.

[Infinity 324]

If we're ok with not bringing anyone back:

We can create a bunch of dreams before we lynch/limbo. First level has 7, next has 4, next has 3. (This means we can't limbo anyone in level 4 anyway so the only reason to go there is to bring someone back, probably). We limbo in level 3, kick the other 2. Limbo in level 2, kick the other 2. Then there are 5 people in level 1 so we can create another level 2 and limbo there, then kick the other 2 back to level 1. Then we can do that again since there are 4 in level 1. Then limbo in level 1. That's already 5 limbos so far. Kick the final 2 back to the main thread, and start over.

We miss the ability to bring people back and possibly a bunch of PRs by doing this, but the ability to get a ton of lynches is very tempting to me. Or am I missing something?