Mini 1898 - Inception Mafia - The Hub (GAME OVER)

[Not Chara]

the player lynched within the dream doesn't have to be the one dreaming.

[Leonshade]

But how will we get the player we want to lynch into the three player dream? Short of us going "these two obvtown stay in the mainthread, you three sort each other out".

Well actually we could do that.

[Almost50]

what's everyone's opinion on 7 people going into the first dream (meaning the dreamer has to dream lynch themself), and 5 being left in the main thread? then we can lynch in the main thread and get something useful out of it, while still moving forward with scumhunting in the dream.

I thought you could NOT lynch in the main thread if a dream was initiated already!!

[Almost50]

doing two first-level dreams is a bad idea.

Corrected!

What if the 7 dreamers included NO SCUM? That's 2 guaranteed mislynches. The 7 dreamers (on the first dream) will mislynch because there are no scum there. The second dream will be scum driven and they control the majority as well, so another mislynch there. And that's just the easiest deduction out of multiple possibilities. Now feel free to so the math with 1, 2 or all 3 scum being in the first dream.

[Hiraki]

The idea of the most active players also being the most active makes me paranoid due to my aforementioned reason of scum looking for an easy TR. But an active town and inactive town is possible (just got off one, Civ Mafia) and we've discussed the motivation for scum to not push conversation during the pre-game.

this is an actual bad read list

I though we decided perception wouldn't be very valuable anyway.

Actually, I'm still very much of the realm that perception is the key to winning or losing this game so I guess I'm not we.

Persuival's readlist isn't bad because of his weird TR on me - it's weird because there's generally no reasoning behind anyone and there's no predictability (this is less so but something to note)

For instance, Fuzzy is a nightmare. I'm assuming that's something close to a SR - why???? He came into the game being very confused and that's just it.

Not really original content, especially 211.

Why are you noting this?

It's page 9 of pregame - all those reads are weak, but it's time to get moving.

OK but then why do you have legitimate SRs? There's a difference between having weak reads and listing everyone on a playerlist. It's forced AF.

I play MY WAY, so whatever you think is the "right way" to do it does not concern me.

Ok so when you BREAK the rules, you have no one to blame but yourself.

what's everyone's opinion on 7 people going into the first dream (meaning the dreamer has to dream lynch themself), and 5 being left in the main thread? then we can lynch in the main thread and get something useful out of it, while still moving forward with scumhunting in the dream.

Would you rather make the decision of who goes in now or later?

[Not Chara]

doing two first-level dreams is a bad idea.

Corrected!

What if the 7 dreamers included NO SCUM? That's 2 guaranteed mislynches. The 7 dreamers (on the first dream) will mislynch because there are no scum there. The second dream will be scum driven and they control the majority as well, so another mislynch there. And that's just the easiest deduction out of multiple possibilities. Now feel free to so the math with 1, 2 or all 3 scum being in the first dream.

what do you suggest we do instead?

[Infinity 324]

Actually, I'm still very much of the realm that perception is the key to winning or losing this game so I guess I'm not we.

It's only ever going to become relevant if players have to come back up to the main thread from a total of 5 or more dream levels over the course of the game. Doesn't seem that likely to me.

[Not Chara]

is that so strange? perception would become immediately relevant if anyone tries to bring someone back from limbo. or if abilities result in dreams being kicked, or needing to be kicked, or other things affecting perception.

it's a mechanic with several rules that interact with the others, and can send players to limbo. even if it isn't the most important facet of the game, i'm sure it will be plenty relevant.

[Not Chara]

especially in late game.

[Not Chara]

despite all this discussion about the optimal day 1 play, i'm happy so long as we get at least one dream going before we use our main thread lynch. past games say getting the entire game to agree on a highly specific course of action will be an exercise in futility.

[Infinity 324]

Even if people are going to be brought back from limbo, they wouldn't be able to run out with normal mechanics unless they go into another dream and are kicked again.

[Hiraki]

I

guarantee

that a PR will only work in Stage 3 or 4 of the dream.

[Infinity 324]

Again, someone needs to try to survive 2 kicks before they have a chance of running out of perception.

[Not Chara]

Infinity, the entire game is based around going into dreams so we can lynch players. i really don't find it unlikely that plenty of players will be going in and out of dreams and having to watch their perception. and that isn't thinking about situations where scum players could kick anonymously and hurt town that are farther into the dream. there's a lot we don't know about the roles in this game. you can't guarantee anything when we only have the mechanics.

[Persivul]

Actually, I'm still very much of the realm that perception is the key to winning or losing this game so I guess I'm not we.

It's only ever going to become relevant if players have to come back up to the main thread from a total of 5 or more dream levels over the course of the game. Doesn't seem that likely to me.

Depends on how fast we play. Remember, deadline is tied to the deepest dream, but you need perception to come back from deep dreams. Seems to me we'll need to take turns going into deep dreams or we'll be up against deadline pretty quickly.

[Almost50]

@Chara: Still trying to figure that out. It's a given we will have 7-8 players dreaming, and thus your proposal cannot be totally avoided, but can probably be countered to minimize the possibility of it ending in 2 guaranteed mislynches.

How about we elect the 3 strongest global TRs and have them stay off the dream wagon? We are then guaranteed NOT to trigger a second dream from the main thread for starters, although that might affect our scum hunting efficiency within that dream.

Maybe do that and then no lynch within the dream? The 5 in the main thread can still READ in the dream thread (and thus scum hunt but w/o interaction). After deliberations between them 5 (simultaneously with the other 7 interacting and scum hunting in the traditional manner) they recall the 7 back up to the main thread and lynch whomever they decided should be lynched.

The lynchee flip will provide a lot of substance for us to decide on the next move (which would certainly be to trigger another dream, but of what composition?). We will probably have better reads on everyone and -if we're lucky- we may have scum down to 2 as well.

But although this is my own proposition I still can see a major flaw in it if our first lynch is a mislynch, so I'd appreciate it if someone adopts the idea hypothetical and builds on it to see how we can avoid the side effect of a mislynch in case of one.

[gerryoat]

im still voting infinity when the game starts ftr

[McMenno]

why should we put 7 people in a dream if we're just going to recall & lynch one of them anyway? why not just lynch them before setting up the first dream? deadline extending?

[Not Chara]

i'm really not the type to be able to identify the overall optimal play here. it's just not in my skillset. i could think of ideas that might

work

, but i can't predict how well in practice.

and, what Persivul said.

[Not Chara]

why should we put 7 people in a dream if we're just going to recall & lynch one of them anyway? why not just lynch them before setting up the first dream? deadline extending?

because we're not recalling and lynching one of them, that would definitely be pointless. the players that go into the dream are going to lynch and send someone to limbo.

at least, i assumed that was the idea.

[Almost50]

why should we put 7 people in a dream if we're just going to recall & lynch one of them anyway? why not just lynch them before setting up the first dream? deadline extending?

That AND a clearer view with the spotlight limited to those 7. If we lynch first we are lynching semi-blindly. We don't even know what happens in the dreams (you're in someone else's subconsciousness, so maybe you get something extra from it regarding their role).

[Almost50]

@Chara: No, I meant recal and send to dead thread, but I don't mind the Limbo option if so the majority sees more fit.

[McMenno]

that's another thing: should we massclaim? as scum don't have a nightkill it might be an option

[Hiraki]

i was thinking that mcmenno

might be a problem if a role isnt in the op though

[McMenno]

i was thinking that mcmenno

might be a problem if a role isnt in the op though

all of them are listed in the op