Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Not Chara]

well, yeah. this is the most fun i've had in the game so far. you were so tight-lipped before.
too bad i have to lynch you.

[Tywin Lannister]

NC: I wrote multiple posts about desperado already. So maybe neither of us are reading. I'm not caught up on the past two pages since its been moving fast and don't have the time right now, but no case is solid right now. I just question why Desp/Ali is such a contentious issue here. You and ABR are both hard defending one of them pretty strongly. They could just answer questions themselves too. None of us know whose the scum here without actually being scum, so why are you both so sure?

Ali hard defended Majiffy. Desperado sat on the sidelines calling it TvT. NCs case on ABR is him saying it was TvT as well. Literally all these arguments apply to everyone involved.

[Not Chara]

i'd rather not talk about this when you aren't caught up, it's a waste of time. my case on ABR is not simply that he said it was TvT. it's the way he's tried to manipulate the game with it.
i've tried to respond to you about Desperado.
look, when are you going to have time? when we're both online and caught up we can go through the points. i'm tired of this runaround.

[Tywin Lannister]

Let me put this in a new way for both of you:

Assume there is obviously more than 2 scum. Majiff is gone, so there's at least two left. Maybe 3 or a traitor left, but let's assume 2 more for now.

So regardless of if ABR is scum or Desp is scum, whose the third scum? Whose their buddy(s)?

[Not Chara]

i'm keeping that to myself. when i said i wanted to call the scumteam but it wasn't the time for theory-crafting, i meant it. i've never been the type to try and look for partner associations while the related players are still alive. it's work that goes down the drain if one of the partners flips wrong, and no one listens to your partner association conclusions after you've died anyways.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let me put this in a new way for both of you:

Assume there is obviously more than 2 scum. Majiff is gone, so there's at least two left. Maybe 3 or a traitor left, but let's assume 2 more for now.

So regardless of if ABR is scum or Desp is scum, whose the third scum? Whose their buddy(s)?

Already stated.

[Not Chara]

Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne! Nice majiffy kill!

Ok here's the deal. Desperado is caught scum. Tried to posture Tywin and Majiffy as town vs town after I called him out on it, basically parroting my earlier read. Desp is scummy as fuck, everyone follow me!

VOTE: Desp

ABR, can you quote where you called out Desperado for having Tywin and Majiffy and town, parroting your read?

[Tywin Lannister]

Gimme an hour and I'll catch up on my lunch break, but I haven't seen any arguments that aren't just entirely based on WIFOM. I also dislike NC saying 'I'm keeping that to myself' looks odd. If you're town and get NK'd NC, what did that solve? Your reads don't have to be right to give them. If you have associations if ABR flipped scum, giving them isn't detrimental even if they're wrong. Also, I will be reading everything, so claiming it's a waste of time seems counterproductive.

[Not Chara]

i'll just make an ABR post and leave it at that.

his reads aren't based on him figuring out if someone is scum or town. they're based on convenience and who he thinks he can lynch.
it's more obvious in his behaviour today.

1594 is a good enough summary of where he was on Clumsy. 1525 he calls the team at Desperado and Clumsy.
then we get to 1625. i make a point for Clumsy town and ABR changes his tune. i guess at this point he realized Clumsy wasn't as lynchable. i don't see a town explanation for this complete 180 after i pointed out something that happened that ABR should have read already. it's also the point where the scumread on me materializes.

so, that continues until i see ABR's posting and realize he's scum, then vote him. all he has to say is OMGUS.
1689 comes along. he says he stepped up to the plate to defend Tywin, who was being scumread. thank goodness ABR was there. his second reaction to my vote, after calling it OMGUS, is to try and make himself look good. not by scumhunting, but my showing how very, very town he is. same post even includes the 'i wasn't on maria's wagon, i was just scumreading her' defense. then he brings up what i said about Alisae to tell you why he thinks Alisae is town. (and god, if that isn't the most delicious irony, that ABR's big vote-post against Desperado includes an accusation of parroting, and now he's piggy-backed off my comments twice. and i'm still scum with Desp here in his narrative) ABR doesn't have anything compelling to say by himself. he has posturing, like this entire post.

1693, i'm desperate scum OMGUSing. he derides the wagon on him, as if it should mean anything when from his point of view, the wagon is only scum. there's nothing at all to fear from a wagon that's

just scum

.

then i make 1694. ABR says it sounded authentic when questioned. so he tries to appeal to me to vote Desperado. not with quotes, more description/detail of why Desperado is scum. just 1697.

besides that, his earlier behaviour is specifically wanting to shut down discussion of players he doesn't want talked about. he wants Desperado lynched quickly, he doesn't want discussion. he wants players to townread Majiffy and move on, he doesn't want that questioned.

[Not Chara]

Gimme an hour and I'll catch up on my lunch break, but I haven't seen any arguments that aren't just entirely based on WIFOM. I also dislike NC saying 'I'm keeping that to myself' looks odd. If you're town and get NK'd NC, what did that solve? Your reads don't have to be right to give them. If you have associations if ABR flipped scum, giving them isn't detrimental even if they're wrong. Also, I will be reading everything, so claiming it's a waste of time seems counterproductive.

i said it was waiting until day 3, earlier. i'd be deluding myself if i thought i would be a nightkill target tonight. there's a reason for this, alright?

i figured you would be reading everything, but discussing things now when you have half the story has no point. i want to discuss with you when we're on the same page with regards to what has been said and done in thread already. i don't have the infinite capacity to debate things twice because the first time you didn't read what i'm referencing and the second time you did.

and i want us to both be online so nothing gets missed, because that seems to keep happening. points/questions are difficult to lose that way.

[Not Chara]

actually i really need a nap. hopefully it won't be too long.

[Tywin Lannister]

ABR: even if Desp is scum, why would Ali asking about a dragon ball be such a sure sign of town? Clumsy stole the lynch, not Ali. Personally, I'm ok with either of them, but Desp is a weaker case per say. I'm not averse to flipping him though, and really, NC's vote on you and ignoring the things Desp has done looks weird too. Of all the possible scum candidates, you (ABR) seems like the worst choice. Ecen considering you ignoring Majiffy, Ali did it worse by far, so NC using that reasoning to vote you looks bad.

have you been reading my posts today? what's so towny about ABR that makes him the worst choice? the difference between ABR and Alisae is that Alisae hasn't been making manipulative post after manipulative post. i've asked you directly about Alisae on Majiffy as well, and you haven't answered me yet.

and i asked you for a Desperado case. what has he done?

Why do you keep asking me to do the work here? I've posted plenty about both Ali and Desp. Did you forget the entirety of how D1 played out?

NC, you're basically calling Desp and Ali town and ABR scum, while not saying whose his partner and giving reasons that frankly mirror Ali as well. Manipulative posts aside, he did hard defend Majiffy. Desp said we were TvT a few times. Yet ABR is scum for this? You say he's not getting reads and just pushing wagons, which is true, but did you count all the naked votes from Desp and Ali? They never tried getting reads either. Nothing from them. So you're playing it as if they're fine to do these things but ABR is scum for it. It's hypocritical and looks weird to me. You can't call one person scum and the others town for all doing the same things. The only real difference is 'manipulative' posts as you call it.

[Desperado]

lmao are you fucking kidding me bro

[Desperado]

are you sure you don't have me confused with someone else like earlier when we had a conversation and then a day later you couldn't remember who I was or anything I had said?

[Tywin Lannister]

Why would I be kidding? Explain what I said that's wrong. You called me as Majiffy TvT. You voted Maria without reason and never moved. You immediately voted ABR without reason and haven't moved. When I ask for reasons why, you ignore me and get uppity about why I wasn't voting Socrates or Alisae, as if I'm required to do so for some reason. You're entire game has been anti-town at best. Who have you sorted and when did you ask questions to figure out if your reads are correct? What cases have you ever brought up against either Maria or ABR? Truth is, you haven't done anything at all. The only difference between you and Vifam are you post more, but everything you post is trash. Kind of like the last two. 'Lol got to be kidding me bro lol' and 'you sure you remember who I am?' about sums up you're entire game. You've done nothing to help find scum and your votes are always naked without reason or thought. You helped lynch an obvious townie yesterday while doing nothing to provide a reason why you SR her. You now vote ABR while doing nothing to provide reasons why you SR him.

I'm not swayed by NC and the crazy defense of Desp just makes me think their aligned. If Desp flips scum, NC is next. If not, then maybe we go for ABR, but I'm not swayed by any of the current arguments. They're all hypocritical, full of WIFOM, and don't actually give reasons why Desp is town over ABR. Not calling out Desp while calling out ABR looks hypocritical to me.

[Not Chara]

my case is on ABR. i'm not SRing him for 'naked votes'.

they're not doing the same things at all. you can't honestly tell me Alisae, Desperado, and ABR are all playing similarly this game. i'm not discounting that Alisae could be scum, i'm saying that the evidence says ABR is the best shot at hitting scum.
don't air quotes 'manipulative'. don't do that. that's exactly what they are. you can't honestly tell me you see Desperado crafting a narrative and trying to control his reads based on how the game is going.

i am

not

calling Alisae town. it's true i'm townreading Desperado. Desp said you guys were TvT. ABR said you were TvT and to stop paying attention to Majiffy. when you sit here and tell me i'm ignoring Alisae and Desperado as though their play this game is in

any way similar

to ABR's, you sound like you're just annoyed i'm not agreeing with your scumreads.
you keep repeating that they're all doing the same things, so where is your ABR scumread? you have an Alisae scumread, and a Desperado scumread, and they're exactly the same as ABR in your mind, so ABR should be a scumread.

...now obviously i don't actually think that, but would you please examine your logic for me. none of what i've pointed out about ABR is the same as Alisae or Desperado beyond the surface level.

i am not scumreading ABR for calling you and Majiffy TvT.

it's the way he kept repeating that you were specifically to stop conversation about it. and it's the way he brings up that read as a way to accuse Desperado of parroting. i still don't understand that but there's certainly nothing in ABR's ISO that can explain it.

Alisae's play also completely differs from ABR's. Alisae's play sucks. he sheeped bad cases, and i don't find much useful in his posts. he could be scum. but he doesn't ping me like ABR is right now and i'm not convinced he's scum. i'm not saying he's town. i'm saying i want ABR dead.

you keep saying that Alisae calling you two SvT is worse than ABR calling it TvT. well, here's why SvT is less useful if Alisae is Majiffy's partner. by framing your fight with Majiffy as a debate with someone who's right and someone who's wrong, that makes whichever side isn't proven town look bad. if you'd flipped before Majiffy, Majiffy would look worse. that's bad for hypothetical scumpartner Alisae.
the reason why manipulative scum ABR, who wants to control the game, would call it TvT is so if you end up flipping, he can still safely TR his partner Majiffy because Majiffy was part of the 'obvtown TvT fight on D1'.
the above doesn't mean they both can't be scum. they could be on the same team and have different styles. my only point here is to tell you why Alisae calling you scum there instead of calling it TvT isn't 'worse' than ABR's way of handling things.

i'm not saying who ABR's partner is because i just told you, i need to wait until day 3. is that such a terrible thing to ask for. i find scum independently and push them. i'm not interested in a pool of players to lynch like i was on day 1 because i'm that confident ABR is scum.
i'm trying not to get frustrated because this is exactly the situation you were in on day 1.

i was hoping for a consolidated 1 or 2 posts on Desperado because i find them so much easier to process if it's in one place. that's the reason i collected all my ABR material isn't of leaving it spread about my ISO. i was considering Desperado scum, you can see it when i question him scumreading you. despite what you want to believe i haven't been ignoring him. but i've drawn my own conclusions. and frankly if ABR is scum it's unlikely Desperado is. it's so much easier to rule-out partner associations than it is to form them.

i can also see town motivation from Desperado. for one, he's pushing ABR. i found his early-game posting towny, such as how he formed his reads and how he explained his thought process. another thing, scum questioning you here isn't an ideal move for them to make. the player you're pushing all day flips scum, and Desperado sees something he thinks is odd. so he presses it. i understand that, it's a town thought-process. is it a scum thought-process to press you here, Tywin? not even as a scumread, but because he doesn't understand where you're coming from. i don't agree with Desperado's opinion here, i didn't find your behaviour odd, but i found the way he thought about the situation to be towny.

but please, if we continue this further let's keep it to one or two points of discussion at a time. it's so much easier for me to follow and think about.

[Not Chara]

You voted Maria without reason and never moved

Tywin this is false, and you are killing me. you are

killing

me. Maria and Desperado had an entire argument. you should read it again. even if you don't agree with the reason there

was

a reason for the vote.

[Alisae]

Tywin: have you forgotten ABR asserting time and again that you vs. Majiffy was TvT, and separately, how town Majiffy was?

No, not entirely, but that's better than Alisae constantly saying it was SvT, with me being scum and absolutely zero reasons given as to why Majiffy was town. He went full on chainsaw defense of Majiffy, and after reading zefiends post saying I'm overthinking WIFOM here, I agree. If desperado is the red herring, then Alisae is scum. Socrates looks town, and the one BIG difference between Alisae and Socrates pertaining to the Majiffy buddying is Majiffy NEVER interacted with Alisae. At no point did he even mention him, let alone give Alisae a reason to hard defend him like they did on D1. Alisae has never asked Majiffy questions to sort him either, which is what town Ali would've done. I was overthinking this pretty badly and not looking at the obviousness of it.

Alisae is scum. I'd rather flip Ali and worry about someone like ABR/desperado later. Ali seems the obvious choice after you take WIFOM out of it.

VOTE: Alisae

Tywin.
Tell me the difference between me being his partner, and him setting me up to be his partner so I can be a lynch because I was tricked into townreading him because Majiffy is good at this game.

[Alisae]

It's like you don't think town can defend scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

My last post was directed toward Desp, not you NC. You've provided reasons for SRing ABR. What bothers me is that Desp hasn't (although he can sheep yours now), but you write him off as town. I know you looked at him earlier and saw something you liked, but I don't know what that is. VCA shows him voting Maria, and now ABR. Thats two votes all game. Surely, he must be super town to not even try to figure out whose scum or not, right? His D2 play consisted of probing my thoughts, but I give them pretty readily. His D1 consisted of voting Maria and calling the 1v1 TvT. So he's wrong about two reads at least, so what makes him think ABR is correct? What case did he bring up before you chimed in NC? I didn't see one. He laughs it off over discussing it, which ironically, Majiffy did too.

ABR isn't scummy enough for me to want to lynch him yet, which is why I asked who your other SR(s) are. You won't give them, but I'm not lynching ABR today if it's just you and Desp saying these things. He never was in my D2 scum pool, and the reasons given to lynch him are about equal to the case on Desp. You haven't provided real reasons for why Desp has played the way he has either. Essentially, you're saying ABR is manipulative and Desp isn't. That's a fallacy. ABR is obvious about it true, but he never pretended to do anything other than that. Desp has skated by doing scummy things and not doing townie things, and all I have to go on for the contrary is your claimed ISO that says you completely understand where Desp comes from. Interesting to note, you never provided any reasons why you believe that, which isn't like you. You're usually very good at giving reasons for things..

As for whose a better lynch, Desp gives more info, which you even admitted yourself. If others want to flip ABR and he comes up as scum, then I'll listen to any further reads, but if he flips town, I'm gunning for Desp/NC, which is what my original read was anyway. At least one is scum if ABR is town. The rest of the cast isn't nearly as interesting to me from a scum viewpoint, and Vifam is the only true question mark for me on D2. The rest aren't in my personal lynch pool for D2, so I won't bother talking about them further.

So I mentioned my lynch pool pages ago, which was Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam. Ive dropped you NC because of posts I agreed with, but you're still a question mark too, and I still question the hard defense of desperado. Why doesn't he? You're going all out for him, but if he's town, shouldn't he wonder why? Scum buddy town all the time, and hard defending a possible lynch player isn't out of the question for scum to do, because it gives them huge TCred after the inevitable lynch. So why isn't he questioning anything? Doesn't he wonder at all about whose scum? He certainly never says it.

Since the focus is either ABR or Desperado, I'd rather flip Desp. I don't see enough to lynch ABR that is any worse than what Desp has/hasn't done. I can't pretend to say that one sideliner player who said TvT is any worse than another who said TvT. The real difference is ABR pushing harder on lynches without questions asked, but Desp just votes town, doesn't ever switch or question it, and let's town hang themselves. Frankly, the difference when really summed up is minimal. There's not a huge gap here that makes one obv scum and the other obv town, and that's what bothers me.

You both call Ali town, but one calls Desp scum and the other calls ABR scum for pushing Desp. Desp gives more info due to that alone. If Desp flips scum, ABR is cleared and NC is implicated. That's my opinion.

Now, could I be wrong? Yes. I'm not certain at all here compared to my stance on Majiffy. What I do know is that there are obviously two blocs here, and scum are on one of them. Does it truly matter which one is lynched? Vigi shoots the other if the first flips town. One town for one scum looks good to me. The only way this doesn't work is if ABR and NC are scum buddies. Completely possible with how good they are, but that's territory not worth looking at yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ali relax I'm not going to stay on you.

[Alisae]

My last post was directed toward Desp, not you NC. You've provided reasons for SRing ABR. What bothers me is that Desp hasn't (although he can sheep yours now), but you write him off as town. I know you looked at him earlier and saw something you liked, but I don't know what that is. VCA shows him voting Maria, and now ABR. Thats two votes all game. Surely, he must be super town to not even try to figure out whose scum or not, right? His D2 play consisted of probing my thoughts, but I give them pretty readily. His D1 consisted of voting Maria and calling the 1v1 TvT. So he's wrong about two reads at least, so what makes him think ABR is correct? What case did he bring up before you chimed in NC? I didn't see one. He laughs it off over discussing it, which ironically, Majiffy did too.

ABR isn't scummy enough for me to want to lynch him yet, which is why I asked who your other SR(s) are. You won't give them, but I'm not lynching ABR today if it's just you and Desp saying these things. He never was in my D2 scum pool, and the reasons given to lynch him are about equal to the case on Desp. You haven't provided real reasons for why Desp has played the way he has either. Essentially, you're saying ABR is manipulative and Desp isn't. That's a fallacy. ABR is obvious about it true, but he never pretended to do anything other than that. Desp has skated by doing scummy things and not doing townie things, and all I have to go on for the contrary is your claimed ISO that says you completely understand where Desp comes from. Interesting to note, you never provided any reasons why you believe that, which isn't like you. You're usually very good at giving reasons for things..

As for whose a better lynch, Desp gives more info, which you even admitted yourself. If others want to flip ABR and he comes up as scum, then I'll listen to any further reads, but if he flips town, I'm gunning for Desp/NC, which is what my original read was anyway. At least one is scum if ABR is town. The rest of the cast isn't nearly as interesting to me from a scum viewpoint, and Vifam is the only true question mark for me on D2. The rest aren't in my personal lynch pool for D2, so I won't bother talking about them further.

So I mentioned my lynch pool pages ago, which was Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam. Ive dropped you NC because of posts I agreed with, but you're still a question mark too, and I still question the hard defense of desperado. Why doesn't he? You're going all out for him, but if he's town, shouldn't he wonder why? Scum buddy town all the time, and hard defending a possible lynch player isn't out of the question for scum to do, because it gives them huge TCred after the inevitable lynch. So why isn't he questioning anything? Doesn't he wonder at all about whose scum? He certainly never says it.

Since the focus is either ABR or Desperado, I'd rather flip Desp. I don't see enough to lynch ABR that is any worse than what Desp has/hasn't done. I can't pretend to say that one sideliner player who said TvT is any worse than another who said TvT. The real difference is ABR pushing harder on lynches without questions asked, but Desp just votes town, doesn't ever switch or question it, and let's town hang themselves. Frankly, the difference when really summed up is minimal. There's not a huge gap here that makes one obv scum and the other obv town, and that's what bothers me.

You both call Ali town, but one calls Desp scum and the other calls ABR scum for pushing Desp. Desp gives more info due to that alone. If Desp flips scum, ABR is cleared and NC is implicated. That's my opinion.

Now, could I be wrong? Yes. I'm not certain at all here compared to my stance on Majiffy. What I do know is that there are obviously two blocs here, and scum are on one of them. Does it truly matter which one is lynched? Vigi shoots the other if the first flips town. One town for one scum looks good to me. The only way this doesn't work is if ABR and NC are scum buddies. Completely possible with how good they are, but that's territory not worth looking at yet.

As for whose a better lynch, Desp gives more info, which you even admitted yourself. If others want to flip ABR and he comes up as scum, then I'll listen to any further reads, but if he flips town, I'm gunning for Desp/NC, which is what my original read was anyway. At least one is scum if ABR is town. The rest of the cast isn't nearly as interesting to me from a scum viewpoint, and Vifam is the only true question mark for me on D2. The rest aren't in my personal lynch pool for D2, so I won't bother talking about them further.

So I mentioned my lynch pool pages ago, which was Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam. Ive dropped you NC because of posts I agreed with, but you're still a question mark too, and I still question the hard defense of desperado. Why doesn't he? You're going all out for him, but if he's town, shouldn't he wonder why? Scum buddy town all the time, and hard defending a possible lynch player isn't out of the question for scum to do, because it gives them huge TCred after the inevitable lynch. So why isn't he questioning anything? Doesn't he wonder at all about whose scum? He certainly never says it.

Since the focus is either ABR or Desperado, I'd rather flip Desp. I don't see enough to lynch ABR that is any worse than what Desp has/hasn't done. I can't pretend to say that one sideliner player who said TvT is any worse than another who said TvT. The real difference is ABR pushing harder on lynches without questions asked, but Desp just votes town, doesn't ever switch or question it, and let's town hang themselves. Frankly, the difference when really summed up is minimal. There's not a huge gap here that makes one obv scum and the other obv town, and that's what bothers me.

So I mentioned my lynch pool pages ago, which was Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam. Ive dropped you NC because of posts I agreed with, but you're still a question mark too, and I still question the hard defense of desperado. Why doesn't he? You're going all out for him, but if he's town, shouldn't he wonder why? Scum buddy town all the time, and hard defending a possible lynch player isn't out of the question for scum to do, because it gives them huge TCred after the inevitable lynch. So why isn't he questioning anything? Doesn't he wonder at all about whose scum? He certainly never says it.

So I mentioned my lynch pool pages ago, which was Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam..

Alisar, Desperado, Clumsy, or Vifam..

Alisar

Bruh I thought we were better friends then this.

[Alisae]

Ali relax I'm not going to stay on you.

Okay, I get that.
But I still want an answer to my question, this would really make me happy.

[Not Chara]

stop saying i think Alisae is town, i've denied that a few times.

Desp has skated by doing scummy things and not doing townie things, and all I have to go on for the contrary is your claimed ISO that says you completely understand where Desp comes from. Interesting to note, you never provided any reasons why you believe that, which isn't like you. You're usually very good at giving reasons for things..

another thing, scum questioning you here isn't an ideal move for them to make. the player you're pushing all day flips scum, and Desperado sees something he thinks is odd. so he presses it. i understand that, it's a town thought-process. is it a scum thought-process to press you here, Tywin? not even as a scumread, but because he doesn't understand where you're coming from. i don't agree with Desperado's opinion here, i didn't find your behaviour odd, but i found the way he thought about the situation to be towny.

yes, yes i have provided reasons. if they're not satisfactory then tell me what specific things you have a problem with and we can discuss it. specific things. if you say 'he does scummy things' i really cannot say anything in response.

but i'm so utterly tired of arguing this, and a Desperado townflip wouldn't be terrible in the long run. if Desperado is going to keep responding to you with crap instead of explanations because he's annoyed, i'll let him get lynched for it and i'll stop dealing with it.

[Alisae]

Why do I get the gut feeling NC is only motivated to get Dragonballs?