Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[TwoFace]

ok... 701 is the first post I can recall by Horror that I do not like. He is on the L-2 wagon of someone he suspects (iaws) but moves to another L-2 wagon on someone he absolutely doesn't want to see lynched. Why not make a final push for support on the iaws wagon? smh....bad Horror.

Look at my play at the end of yesterday - it was full of nothing but absolute frustration at this gamestate in general. We were only a few hours to deadline and I had all but given up on Day 1 at that point. I'm trying to chalk it up to a learning experience.

How does anyone tell if it's genuine or fake frustration? You do know that's easy to fake right?

You didn't push any of your own reads hard at all
You complain about me pushing my reads and misrepped my entire push.

neither of those things appear townie to me. If you want to write it off as conf.bias that's on you but if you saw somebody else do that and didn't find it scummy, than I doubt your ability to play

[TwoFace]

Yeah I'm not going to talk to you.

Why are you refusing to answer legitimate questions?

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, the difference between you and TwoFace is that I actually like you, but fine... Let me just state this again.

Yesterday, I had virtually no reads on anyone, I just felt that CoolDog's wagon was terrible. See Post 756 for an example of me stating this.

Did I state this as thoroughly as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I attack the cases as thoroughly as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I spend as much time scumhunting as I should have yesterday? No.
Did I spend too much time bitching about the wagon rather than being productive? Absolutely.
Did I get into a ridiculous back and forth with TF at the end of yesterday that was counterproductive at best? Yep, and it was a terrible idea.

I have admitted several times that my Day 1 play was crap. My early game play is usually crap tbh, but I'm working on improving it. What I fail to see though is how my play now is suddenly invalidated because I didn't comment on these things when given the chance yesterday. Just because I didn't read the thread as thoroughly as I should have Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads don't matter now that I have read it Day 2, especially having flips to look back on and give me perspective I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

[TwoFace]

You say I'm not capable of having a conversation with but that's absolutely not true. One game I even did a 180 on a death tunnel cause the person I was tunneling actually convinced me to look elsewhere and guess what? He was right and we lynched scum and won.

I give people instructions on how to stop a death tunnel in my signature. You want me to stop, make a case that's convincing enough that I doubt my own read.

I'm a very simple person to figure out. I have a certain expectation from townies. Most people think it's unrealistic which just goes to prove this site is in the shitter.

Town doesn't lie
Town scum hunts
Town doesn't lurk

You do these things and you get my respect and a town read. You don't and I think you are scum.

It's really that fucking simple. (There maybe more things that I can't think of but for now those are the 3 main things)

[TwoFace]

Refusing to answer questions and being lazy also don't make players look good.

[horrordude0215]

Please explain what good can possibly come out of going back and forth with you about your opinions on my Day 1 play, TwoFace. If your play today is going to be anything like yesterday when you spent the entire day only focusing on CoolDog, continuing to engage with you is only going to clutter the thread. I see no pro-town motivation for continuing this conversation, honestly.

If your read on me is going to change, it's not going to be because of anything I say directly to you. It's going to be based on your observations of me interacting with the rest of the game and players. Hell, probably 75% of the posts so far today have been you, myself, and Eddie, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out scum are lurking watching town destroy itself.

[horrordude0215]

Let me put it this way: What could I say to you directly right now that would cause you to change your read on me?

[TwoFace]

You say I'm not capable of having a conversation with but that's absolutely not true. One game I even did a 180 on a death tunnel cause the person I was tunneling actually convinced me to look elsewhere and guess what? He was right and we lynched scum and won.

You don't seem to be reading. I'm capable of chnging my opinions

If you won't even answer a question, how do you expect to change my mind?

If you are town and you think I'm town, you should be motivated to get me to chcange my read on you so I can focus on somebody else.

You as scum thought would probably hope we argue so people think this is another tf/cd fight and you get by being useless again.

[TwoFace]

Let me put it this way: What could I say to you directly right now that would cause you to change your read on me?

I literally just gave you instructions

[horrordude0215]

Your entrance to the wagon was shit, and me being inactive yesterday doesn't suddenly mean that the entrance wasn't shit.

You took time to call me out on my push on Cd, but not him?

Why not?

The reason why I called you out instead of Eddie was because you started the Cooldoc lynch wagon and were, I felt, the main force behind its existence at the time. I didn't pressure Eddie because I hadn't even really looked to the other players on the wagon. As I've stated several times, I wasn't focusing on the game in general until after the game went to night. Yes, this makes me look terrible, and I fully accept this fact. Hell, I can even say now evaluating my play that in many ways I was tunneling your case alone and being a hypocritical fuck for calling you out for doing the same thing on CD.

My contributions to town yesterday... I pushed a few lurkers with votes and got some content out of people - boon was completely inactive until I voted him, I still think that Wheme is being useless, and IAWS has been marginally better today I guess?

I already said I was terrible yesterday, and I look forward to being able to now give this game the attention it deserves. Whether you continue to scumread me for my Day 1 play is completely up to you.

[TwoFace]

Thanks. That's a start in the right direction.

[horrordude0215]

Fitz is scum also

Can you explain this read for me?

[Eddie Cane]

My issue with the activity in this game is that it is solely centered around CoolDog and his reaction to what happened in RVS. There has been nothing of substance aside from that to help me get reads on anyone. TwoFace has been tunneling all day, and his pointing out CD's "slip" has dictated the course of discussion for virtually everyone else in the town. This entire game is a fucking board full of nullreads for me right now, and it's pissing me off.

again. this does not call the cooldog wagon terrible. it actually doesn't say anything about the quality of the cooldog wagon, it says it is too focal in the thread.

[horrordude0215]

Like I've said - me playing like crap Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads Day 2 are suddenly null and void. If you have an issue with the fact that I jumped on you for your crappy entrance onto the CD wagon, tell me why I'm wrong. Just saying "You had the chance to discuss it but you missed your opportunity" and ignoring the case looks bad.

[Eddie Cane]

I didn't ignore the "case". I think my reason for voting CD was good. Tell me explicitly what was wrong with my initial case and follow up comments about CD and I will argue it.

[Eddie Cane]

Like I've said - me playing like crap Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads Day 2 are suddenly null and void. If you have an issue with the fact that I jumped on you for your crappy entrance onto the CD wagon, tell me why I'm wrong. Just saying "You had the chance to discuss it but you missed your opportunity" and ignoring the case looks bad.

Yesterday, I had virtually no reads on anyone, I just felt that CoolDog's wagon was terrible. See Post 756 for an example of me stating this.

[TwoFace]

Fitz is scum also

Can you explain this read for me?

Maybe later in the game, but for now he's not appearing very friendly to townie

[TwoFace]

Like I've said - me playing like crap Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads Day 2 are suddenly null and void. If you have an issue with the fact that I jumped on you for your crappy entrance onto the CD wagon, tell me why I'm wrong. Just saying "You had the chance to discuss it but you missed your opportunity" and ignoring the case looks bad.

No they aren't null and void but I'll expect good reasons for them since you basically shit all over mine and even misrepped them.

[havingfitz]

also fits why is hans town

Meta. Feels town. We recently finished a game as scum partners and this feels different. Subject to change I suppose but nothing he's done so far has me sr'ing him.

[horrordude0215]

speak of the devil!

VOTE: cooldog

Eddie first jumps on cooldog with what amounts to a naked vote with no justification.

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

I don't have a sense of humor.

Yet you have made posts in games you later said was a joke...

meta is bullshit and correlates with bad lynches.

oh man that cmm wagon is pretty slick

Unvote

VOTE: CMM

it is, but we don't have many cmm posts to go off of, need him to post more.

Why do people insist on making town lists ?? What value is in it??

there isn't any. It just gives scum good nk targets.

no clue, read lists are stupid and should never be done

scum lists aree somewhat useful in later days, not d1 and certainly not this early into d1.

Were you intending to take me up on the offer (is that what the "speak of the devil!" meant??) or were you just changing votes?

Either way, I'm a frog of my word so

Unvote: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Vote: CooLDoG

fite me

not an omgus, but you literally just said you like the cmm wagon. Seems like fishing for the easiest wagon to be on, as superhans points out in his next post.

This post is bad. as are his others. happy with my vote here.

Eddie states that these posts are "bad". Generic post, no legitimate reasoning, especially because CD's responses are actually pretty valid?

Somebody who makes jokes should have totally seen that claim as a joke

...sometimes people miss things?

in particular i feel like cooldog is the kind of person who'd possibly take something like that literally. This isn't from scanning random games, this is from having seen him post on ms for years in discussion forums. And i certainly don't think he'd lie as scum about thinking that it was legitimate when he knew it was a joke. it's mostly moot anyway. it's not a strong read.

Do you think he's scum lying about having thought it was serious? What is the scum motivation for lying about something so arbitrary when everyone else would obviously know it's a joke?

scum motivation is a free large content post. he got to type a wall early in the game and 'contribute' to town

seriously. what it allows him to do is make a case and appear to be contributing to town. he didn't actually take it seriously, no competent player would ever take that seriously IMO, and he doesn't expect to be sheeped on it. it let's him push an unrealistic bad angle hard and "genuinely" and get off from it scrape free. it also excuses him from having to take actual stances. this is scum, fucking lynch it.

His reasoning for why he voted CD in the first place all has to do with the fact that CD was supposedly using an early "wall" post to skate through the game and not have to take stances.... which is not only nonsensical, it's also completely incorrect.

[Eddie Cane]

dude you're completely nonsensical and incorrect

[Eddie Cane]

I think CD is 100% at fault for his mislynch and I think he was extremely scunmy. you need to stop looking in a vacuum. that would be a bad argument in day 6 3p lylo, yes. not on page 10. skating the entire game =/= skating early game. stop being stupid.

[Eddie Cane]

that's the reason I voted CD on page 9. yes. he did nothing to motivate me to change my vote, he continued being a scumfuck and not contributing to t0wn in the alightest. youre arguing a near-rvs argument as if I made it late game when that's not at all the case. hey look, a problem with evaluating stuff a day later!

[horrordude0215]

The CD Lynch was horrible, and his allegedly scummy play was based entirely on players overreaching and misrepping pretty much every post he made.

[Eddie Cane]

the CD lynch was not horrible and the alternative was iaws who was much townier. you didn't propose a better lynch. yes you've acknowledged you did nothing d1 blah blah blah that doesn't absolve you from blame. you had time to arfue with 2f, you could have had time to argue with me. we are going in circles.