DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[CloudKicker]

Been a while where ive been town in a game with you, im not even sure it ever happened

[The Wood Cutters]

you mean that one time where I called you bad town and then realized you were actually scummy and I was in for the fight for my life?

Yea I remember you ya little shit. Even scared me as scum AND WE WERE THE SAME BLOODY TEAM!

[The Wood Cutters]

you mean that one time where I called you bad town and then realized you were actually scummy and I was in for the fight for my life?

Yea I remember you ya little shit. Even scared me as scum AND WE WERE THE SAME BLOODY TEAM!

/says in a playful tone that might not be understood is playful.

[CloudKicker]

you mean that one time where I called you bad town and then realized you were actually scummy and I was in for the fight for my life?

Yea I remember you ya little shit. Even scared me as scum AND WE WERE THE SAME BLOODY TEAM!

ahahah damn right, those were hilarious

[CloudKicker]

I am really looking forward mastina play

[The Wood Cutters]

Inb4 someone tells me that Thinkmomo replacement is also NAI:

momo posted in this thread less than 4 hours ago, and in this one 3 hours ago, so it's not like momo site flaked.

People had already established that TB's scum meta is to lurk it out, so I guess momo simply couldn't handle the situation on his own and white flagged. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason for him to walk away and not even bother requesting a replacement.

This is a CONFIRMED scum slot. 100% .. 10 out of 10. 24/7

~A50

This doesn't advance the "TB is scum because lurking" case at all. Momo was probably annoyed that TB was lurking, which he has the capacity to do as either alignment.

[drealmerz7]

he is more inclined to do it as scum though

[farside22]

Wraith: oh, us being your second-highest scumread makes that make sense, then. in the original post it sounded like you expected havingfitz to flip town.

farside: what's your opinion on Wraith? as he's pushing ThinkMomo slot for lurking and for contributing very little in the times that they did post. i want you to explain this because it might show you where your own bias is.
~Chara

I don't treat players the same. I don't know many that do.
Wraith.......i have a soft town read on him but I'm not married to the read.
Where do you stand with twc currently and why?
They didn't respond to my question and seem to do you pretty hard for little reason back there.
Plus I wonder why you didn't question them.

Cloud probably didn't read pine's posts. Being a replacement is a lot different from saying you are busy/making excuses

I don't know.
Maybe I've seen replacements mainly say I'm busy and need to replace out more often then not.
But what cloud is referring to is not a scum tell.

Ok but does that make cloud scum?

I find it a pretty weak push to make. Overly aggressive over something small is a scum tell in my book.

Why almostchara is scum.
First you have the catch up from almost which is pretty useless nothing of value to offer
A50 head from the start just makes lots of noise, claims he's trying to figure players out but does more naratives then scum hunting.
See is for the above.
not engaging post to give empty reass
By the by chara would have stopped the argument or tried to understand both parties pic as town.
[viewtopic.php?p=9041789#p9041789]weak reason for voting [/url] it just reads as a I'm grasping at straws post.
[viewtopic.php?p=9047852#p9047852]the bigger case [/url] this sealed my scum read on chara.
Some of the points they made are not anything out of the normal to criticize. Especially the first 3.
Basically the case looks padded when in essence the only real issue is dreal coming in and butting in between 2 players, which isn't scimmy.
again weak reasons for a scum read
None of what mini posted is really AI. The meta issue and post flip stuff is pretty meaniless grasp.

And that's the gist of my issues with A.C.
Maybe I'm bias and expect better from chara but I doubt it.

Most of these are issues with almost, why is bad reasoning a scumtell for him?

I only recall playing Steven universe with a50.
He rarely ever made a case against anyone.
He more was fighting with a player and in the at trying to talk things over.
I see very little of any of that here.
He's being overly jerkish

I disagree with farside's reasons for scumreading chara, but I don't like chara's response. I do remember scum!chara being a bit more obvious than this (in watchdogs) but maybe I'm wrong. I don't remember why I townread the slot so I still have to ISO them and stuff.

It feels off. Like you're trying to appeal to farside instead of throwing up your hands and calling her a VI or OMGUSing her.

i'm calling her biased and i called her bad town. because she is. i'm not throwing up my hands because even when i'm frustrated, i'll keep fighting. no reason to give up here.

i've also seen scum farside. i've seen her try to appeal to town players, and such. i'm not basing everything on this but her approach here is not similar at all and reminds me a lot more of her in Steven Universe.

why is it bad that i'm approaching this with the intent to play the game, instead of outright ignoring her (throwing up my hands and calling her a VI), or OMGUSing her? (honestly, what?)
~Chara

you really can't explain why my trying to correct a townread on a bad read, instead of acting in an unhelpful way, looks scummy to you? i understand the notion of unreasonable = town but the absence of someone being unreasonable should

not

lead you to thinking someone is scum.
~Chara

Sorry I'm bypassing the other 3 quotes because I'm getting car sick doing this.
Im holding it for lqter

[CloudKicker]

@farside can you address my post on your scumread on me

[The Wood Cutters]

Wraith:

Right now, Wraith is either a townie who is just going through the motions and lurking through the entirety of Day 1 for no good reason, or he's scum who is resigned to dying eventually and is playing like garbage as a result. I believe his Miller speculation despite disagreeing with it thoroughly; the flavor argument is utter nonsense and the balance argument is incorrect, but 1008 feels like a genuine enough argument as a whole and the followup in 1021 seems like someone who is frustrated with the reasons they are being pushed (which has nothing to do with alignment, by the way, but it does mean that this line is probably genuine).

I believe his "I hate Day 1s in closed setups" talk due to his post-game commentary in Darkest Dungeon and I believe his "no matter what I do I'll get scumread" attitude based on his post-game commentary in Large Normal 200. Neither of these things make him town, and it stands out to me that he always seems to put a fairly decent effort into the game regardless of his attitude.

So, while I'm still not townreading him, it's a little easier for me to see a situation where he's town here, and I'm willing to give him a bit of space since this is his last game for a while. However, I will say this - Wraith, if you decide to put some effort into the game and actually read through and post up to your usual standards, I will make sure that none of your words are lost and I will followup with any lines of suspicion you feel strongly about to the best of my ability. If you decide that you'd rather not play for the first day, I'm fine giving you a day pass, but I'd request that you give our vote to us - there's no guarantee that I'll be living that long in the game and I'd rather your vote go to players who are actively trying to solve as opposed to just voting somewhere for the sake of voting.

[The Wood Cutters]

Empking:

While I don't at all disagree with Prism's 974 re: Empking, I do think that Sakura Wars is a bad example of his scumrange in general. Something that I like about his play this game is his lack of agenda; I think he probably has a tendency to tunnel as scum (in Sakura Wars he tunneled LUV, in the Mini Normal we played together he tunneled Joshz and TwoFace, and in Open 665 which I looked up to confirm my theory, he ended up tunneling Alisae. His play here feels more like he's trying to sort the game out as opposed to trying to catch someone on a gotcha point.

In addition to the two points that Prism brought up (that also seem pretty genuine to me), I also liked this post by Empking:

So that was a lot of noise, with only Shephard changing his vote or posting or interacting with something that could cause his vote to change. Everything else was - pretty much - worthless spam. However, at least T&B is still the biggest wagon even if only on three votes.

Although, I think there is a psychological thing where all these spam posts reduce the pressure on scum since is increases the number of posts between votes and makes them feel safe.

I do dislike the assertion that ThinkMomo is somehow lock-town from 277 as he says here, though; one good point shouldn't make a player a townread for the rest of the game.

[The Wood Cutters]

Prism:

I disliked his opening post because it seemed like he was overextending himself on it; in particular, I thought that his attack on Not Chara's 16 was fairly unreasonable and reachy (it assumed that calling drealmerz obvscum for "not picking a player" in his opening post is a reasonable point of view to have), his rebuttal in 313 is not particularly reassuring but it's not a big deal overall.

His interactions with me in particular (167, 315) I think are probably slightly less likely to come from Prism as scum than Prism as scum, but, as this is something I talked about as an expected towntell from him in camn's revenge, it's certainly a weaker point.

Gin earlier talked about thinking that Prism bringing up a high chance of us being scum but not being able to word it well as something that is scummy as a whole, but I disagree there - if Prism as scum wanted to dance with me, then I'm fairly confident he'd have reasons for pushing in mind and I don't find it overly difficult to believe that he's having trouble putting his scumread of me into words. I don't think that there's any reason for him as town to stay quiet about it.

I'd like Prism to expand on 361 if possible; am fairly sure I've talked about this before but anyone who is calling Wraith's initial discussion of miller town needs to lay out their thought process so I can start understanding it better. I additionally felt that his wall was extraordinarily underwhelming and unless he's giving Wraith brownie points for scumreading T&B (which would be silly as shit) then I don't understand why he would find his contributions here genuine. It's especially important for Prism to expand on this since Wraith is one of three townleans he actually has.

Prism's push against T&B is flawed. The main thrust of the initial argument seems to be that T&B's posts didn't reflect them backing off Drealmerz and that Drealmerz didn't really give them a reason to back off like they claimed. For one, I don't think that you need to make posts reflecting the strength of your read against someone and be 100% truthful about it. Secondly, the posts he outlined as 100% not coming from someone who was just pressuring were empty rhetoric, and, as I've talked about before, empty rhetoric is a fairly common way to pressure someone for pressure's sake. Finally, he makes the claim that "drealmer giving content was never an issue" which, to some extent is true, but pretending there's no difference between Drealmer's 80 and before and the content he produced after that is borderline insane. However, I would be interested in hearing Postie's response to this post here - why didn't you let Superjack know that you were feeling doubts to your drealmer read?

I don't think his interactions with Gin over how he handled our read on us is particularly alignment indicative; he's likely to believe he's in the right regardless of alignment, and so the indignation he felt wouldn't even have to be faked.

I agree with his points in 965 that don't really have anything to do with attitude although his drealmer read is a little bit weird (he's mostly null, sometimes he makes good points but he might buddy me here as scum and so lean scum).

The parts from Prism I feel the most bleh about are his townread on Wraith (would like him to expand on what exactly he sees there) and his push on T&B (don't understand why he feels as strongly about it as he does at all). I'm still not sure how I feel about him; the way that he seems to be scumreading the majority of the game and only having a few townreads he feels decently about seems like a genuine approach to the game but none of the pushes he's really gotten behind have felt particularly town and so I still probably end up with him south of null.

[The Wood Cutters]

ThinkMomo:

I liked their push on Almost Chara, it felt genuine enough.

However, no content after the initial spurt is a bit concerning, and while momo's lack of posting doesn't bother me, Think Big's certainly does (especially when momo is calling him out in thread to post more). I also find the way momo's very strong AC read pretty much completely dies out is a bit suspicious, would like to see the post flip analysis he alluded to in post 218.

I don't mind our vote on this slot although I don't think that ThinkBig's lurking scum meta is a particularly compelling reason to vote him here (in the last game I played with him, he was town in a hydra and posted twice).

[The Wood Cutters]

That's as far as Nacho got in the PT last night.

[Commander Shepard]

Lots of words will read later. Had a long day.

[Infinity 324]

If anyone wants to flashwagon prism, I'd definitely be down. My wraith scumread is stale and really not that strong. If not, I'd be willing to vote TM since I have a lot of lean town reads and they are null.

Agreeing with nacho on enough that I'm putting the slot at relatively solid town.

[Empking]

Empking:

While I don't at all disagree with Prism's 974 re: Empking, I do think that Sakura Wars is a bad example of his scumrange in general. Something that I like about his play this game is his lack of agenda; I think he probably has a tendency to tunnel as scum (in Sakura Wars he tunneled LUV, in the Mini Normal we played together he tunneled Joshz and TwoFace, and in Open 665 which I looked up to confirm my theory, he ended up tunneling Alisae. His play here feels more like he's trying to sort the game out as opposed to trying to catch someone on a gotcha point.

In addition to the two points that Prism brought up (that also seem pretty genuine to me), I also liked this post by Empking:

So that was a lot of noise, with only Shephard changing his vote or posting or interacting with something that could cause his vote to change. Everything else was - pretty much - worthless spam. However, at least T&B is still the biggest wagon even if only on three votes.

Although, I think there is a psychological thing where all these spam posts reduce the pressure on scum since is increases the number of posts between votes and makes them feel safe.

I do dislike the assertion that ThinkMomo is somehow lock-town from 277 as he says here, though; one good point shouldn't make a player a townread for the rest of the game.

It's not impossible that I would change my mind. If there's some voting, role, or associative tells that come up then I won't continue to stand with it, but at the moment he's my top town read. Which served me well by keeping me from going with the 'Think lurks as scum' push - I know Almost says and has given two other reasons - before the Rogue One counter-example.

[Infinity 324]

Empking: I definitely think I could come up with the reasoning in 277 if I was scum. Why do you think momo couldn't?

[farside22]

v/ la till monday

[Commander Shepard]

i did ask, Shepard. i wanted to know how you came to the conclusion you did re: farside and myself.
~Chara

Intent behind the posting.

Then just say that no need to go into the rest of it.

[Commander Shepard]

Tell me something: WHY would you assume this was TvS rather than TvT? What scum motive do you see in either parties posts? Because TvS (for me) means I've decided one party IS scum and ot doesn't look like the other is their p. Just because 2 people are fighting down'r necessarily mean you have scum caught between the two.

A TvT is also when 2 people have 2 genuine contradicting line of thoughts. while SvS is when it feel like busing or a theatre. Now what happens when we do flip Town? Are you going to push far for that? If you do then you're a fool because you are still working on an invalidated assumption that there has to be scum in the 2. If you don't then you are doing exactly what I said you'd do, so you had no reason to object to that post about you.

But do you even THINK before you post? NO. You certainly don't. You just let your mouth (erm.. fingers) run first and then let your mind SUPPORT what you had mindlessly typed already. So tell me again, why should I get invested intellectually with someone who considers their brain a complementary tool to their fingers?????

~A50

That is for you and riddled with bias attacking me for being someone not in this game.

For me TvS is different. Look at my prior games I got TvS pings before I had fledged scumreads.
In Backstabbers for example I had TvS pings between RC and Firebringer I had them right at the start then switched it incorrectly.

[Commander Shepard]

Furthermore this question came after the don't listen to Shepard post and it was literally all that post said.

Stop posting attacking shit please. You will only be scummier.

[Almost Chara]

@Shepard:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I thought you were NOT that player that did not exist and is not in this game. Can't you see the irony in you arguing with me about your meta when you don't want me to use your meta in my arguments with you???

You know you can't have your π and eat it too.

~A50

[Tea and Biscuits]

Been busy and need to sleep now but content coming when I wake up in like 5 hours. Hoping to pull some people out of derptunnels and bad reads then.

-- Postie

[Prism]

Another placeholder until I get home.