[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

[nancy]

See this is why the whole claiming shenanigans at the start of the game are totally useless. THESE interactions here are where the gold is. Seeing how people interact with your slot when your status is unknown. NOT gearing up the game to follow PRs, and being lazy about scumhunting as a result. Over-reliance on PRs is why Town meta is so weak on MS. Like how the fuck are we supposed to get anything half as useful from people interacting with conf!towns?

[WhyMafia]

Ok
We need a lynch target
My suspects
Tes - It appears that he's either lurking rn or just can't play atm. If he can't play, I feel kinda guilty. However, he promised a reads list ages ago. He is yet to give his solid opinion on most players. However, he continually pushed for us to use the setup. That would be ok, but that's literally his only contribution.
Loop - Can someone explain why he's town? I'm reading all his posts. All he's seem to done is push myself and Nancy. He doesn't seem to be explaining himself very well. Instead, he's questioning, and questioning. However, he has given some good insight, so I would prefer a Tes lynch

[nancy]

Ok
We need a lynch target
My suspects
Tes - It appears that he's either lurking rn or just can't play atm. If he can't play, I feel kinda guilty. However, he promised a reads list ages ago. He is yet to give his solid opinion on most players. However, he continually pushed for us to use the setup. That would be ok, but that's literally his only contribution.
Loop - Can someone explain why he's town? I'm reading all his posts. All he's seem to done is push myself and Nancy. He doesn't seem to be explaining himself very well. Instead, he's questioning, and questioning. However, he has given some good insight, so I would prefer a Tes lynch

You could say the same for Noodle wrt to not giving a solid opinion on most players. What good insight do you think Loopdan has given? I'll answer why I was tentatively sorting him as Town in a new post.

[WhyMafia]

See this is why the whole claiming shenanigans at the start of the game are totally useless. THESE interactions here are where the gold is. Seeing how people interact with your slot when your status is unknown. NOT gearing up the game to follow PRs, and being lazy about scumhunting as a result. Over-reliance on PRs is why Town meta is so weak on MS. Like how the fuck are we supposed to get anything half as useful from people interacting with conf!towns?

What do you think of Tes?

[WhyMafia]

It's horrible play by Town.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Or that it is scum motivated.

Nancy, how is Noodle scum if you have secretly been scumreading pine and pine was voting noodle and pine never buses?

I won't get lynched.

I feel certain I won't get lynched.

This is why I said you were behaving like caught scum, ftr Noodle. The only way you soft PR like this is if you are scum because if you were actually a PR you would be trying to get the wagon off you so that you didn't have to claim, not sitting back and refusing to engage with people at risk of getting run up to L-1.

I disagree. I've seen newer players soft claim at the first sniff of a wagon on them.

I'm here. Why do you need me to respond to the claim? We have a confirmed doc-tracker setup (unless there's a CC) and now we play follow the tracker.

I'll vote Why, Pine, or Nancy.

These are all valid points imo

[nancy]

What do you think of Tes?

I think he's done next to nothing to warrant being read as Town and yet I find myself gutreading him as Town.

[nancy]

These are all valid points imo

792 isn't a valid point because it betrays the fact that Loopdan hasn't really been reading the thread. As for the rest, do you think that scum can't make valid points? What do you think was going through his head when he made those posts?

[nancy]

@nancy I agree that this strat is not the best way to introduce newbies to the game, but I'm not the IC (and neither are you). Your wincon should take precedence over your desire to teach newbs. I get opposing the BP claim strat if the claims hadn't started yet, but with 6/9 already claiming it only helps scum to have incomplete claims.

Also, this would not detract from RVS if you would have followed instructions and claimed in your first post.

@srceen-- you too

I refuse to vote anywhere else but non-claimers until this is resolved.

VOTE: nancy

This is actually a somewhat scummy post due the way that Loopdan is abnegating all responsibility for the claiming situation while pushing it very hard, and looking back at it now I don't believe him when he says that he doesn't think this strat is the best way to introduce newbies to the game, but at the time I didn't register that.

Explain why you felt it necessary to state anything other than "I am not BP."

Sometimes votes are for lynching. Sometimes they are for pressure. Sometimes for gauging reactions of the voted players or others.

My pine vote is multipurpose.

@nancy-- I'm getting the feeling you already know the answer.

@mod-- I'm voting pine.

Some mild townie tones from these posts at the time that I read them but in retrospect the tone here is pretty flat and there's nothing genuinely Town motivated behind any of these.

Reasons I'm wary of nancy:
1. Her refusal to claim and the continual arguments over the strategy
2. Making a huge deal about being all about teaching newbies over wincon
3. For arguing pretty much exactly what scum in my last Newbie argued when opposing the BP claim strat day1.
4. For the VT claim out of nowhere that is in no way pro-town (the post does look like legit frustration, but that doesn't mean it's town frustration)
5. On the other hand 316 looks like fake frustration

On the other hand:
1. nancy's answer to me in 385 looks town. Like if she is scum that is seriously good buddying. I disagree with the rest of 385 where she tries to explain why she was "obviously" VT, but I can see the reasoning possibly coming from town.
2. I don't agree with 150, but that looks like town.
3. When she's not arguing about the claiming strat, there is some hunting and evidence of an uninformed mindset (ex:158, 160, 170)

@Nancy-- I really want a more in-depth read from you on Pine. I don't have much insight on his alignment. And you had an early TR on him, which you've only explained as...

Why are you so sure pine is town? He made only a few posts and they were simply to defend you. I'm just interested in hearing your reasoning

Pine and I are friends, and I like to think I can get a pretty good read on him early on. Combination of gut and recognizing patterns.

What patterns?

Explanation seems more or less believable here and this post was the main reason my townlean on his slot stuck, except that upon closer review none of the reasons really stick at all. Like I don't see how 158 or 160 display an uninformed mindset, I see no reason why scum couldn't fake 150, and essentially none of the reasons he has given are actually indicative of nearly anything as he's explained them (and for the most part he hasn't explained them, he's just linked to posts and labelled it as this or that).

OK so I went through his ISO to remind myself why I had him as a townlean and I have no factual idea how I arrived at that, although it may just be that the overall trajectory of his ISO has lended new perspective to the earlier content, and now I find myself wanting to scumread the fuck out of him.

Like, everything that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt on before now just looks fake, the whole "did you get communication from the mod" thing, voting Pine while posturing on my slot, randomly asserting that Tes and Noodle were screaming Town, attacking WM over exaggerated and superficial bullshit.. There's literally no attempts to gamesolve from this slot and he's just an unapologetic lurksack. /Not even/ mentioning his push on me which very nearly trumps all the nonsense that's been brought against me so far today.

VOTE: Loopdan

I hardclaim 1-shot Bulletproof and you can kindly get yourself fucking lynched, Loopdan.

I didn't claim before for all the reasons /already stated/, everything about the claim strategy is awful and counterproductive to what mafia should be about which is /scumhunting/, and people can't scumhunt your slot when you're /conftown/. I softed BP on page one in my jocular conversation with WM where I talked about taking to him to LyLo because /yes/ I am guaranteed going to be in LyLo if there ever is one—and there probably isn't because I'm pretty damned confident that the team is {Drixx, Loopdan}, so kindly save the complaints about losing the Tracker for "nothing" and no it was not my plan to have to claim, I fully intended to powertown the fuck out of today and eat a shot tonight but you can never underestimate the ability of bad Towns to tunnel on obvtowns for ridiculous reasons so here we are.

[StealthyNoodle]

your noodle push sucks

my hero

@WhyMafia, how do you feel about nancy's reactions after being targeted? Post 667 and out.

@WhyMafia

[nancy]

Hey Noodle, unless you feel like counterclaiming (and by all means, PLEASE try and counterclaim me), I am conf!town and now would be a good time to insert facepalms at yourself and actually start doing things to help Town win this game, like voting scum.

[TesXX]

I apologize about not being active today.
@WhyMafia I struggle with readlists. I make them when I'm ready.
Hee hee I have stuff to talks about on nancy's claim

[nancy]

Btw I love this post by GOAT mhsmith.

viewtopic.php?p=9015043#p9015043

I'm going to bed in a minute, talk to you tomorrow Tes

[TesXX]

^ok

I did think that Stealthy acting as if he didn't care about getting lynched was probably because he could be a problem and he would claim it, but nancy has claimed BP, ruling that out.
Somebody might have noticed/pointed it out(if so I forgot) but WM asking the doc protection question might have been trying to find out who people think pr's are(this is just a theory) which

could

be something a doc would do but since nancy is almost definitely BP, I highly doubt it.

[StealthyNoodle]

Wait so you just killed of our tracker then?

[StealthyNoodle]

Because that means we have no doc to protect the tracker. Am I wrong?

[Loopdan]

I hardclaim 1-shot Bulletproof and you can kindly get yourself fucking lynched, Loopdan.

...uh no.

Whatever. It's obvious I'm VT anyway from this whole stupid thing.

Essentially it was obvious (although in retrospect, only to the more experienced players) because of the way I'd fought the claim situation. If I were a PR, I would never have put myself into the spotlight in that way. Placing myself squarely at the center of the gamestate without caring for the consequences is really only something a VT ever does, because a VT has little to lose whereas a PR has to play carefully to avoid being run up and forced to claim.

Between this and "I was secretly scumreading Pine" it's pretty obvious nancy is caught scum.

[nancy]

Tracker was killed off as soon as people started pushing me for shit reasons and forced me to claim. BEFORE that it was pretty likely that scum would have assumed doc protection and not targeted the tracker which would mean that I would probably become the primary target given that I have by far been the most consistent driving force in this game. There IS guaranteed scum on my wagon which means {Chronicle, Loopdan, Noodle}. That + Drixx is my lynchpool.

I don't want to wake up to see anyone lynched while I sleeping so please hold off on pulling the trigger until then. We have just under 2 days until deadline and I intend on using that time as completely as possible and make use of BlackVoid's voice while we have it and reach consensus on a lynch.

Goodnight.

pedit lol or Loopdan will just claim scum for us.

[Srceenplay]

I won't get lynched.

I feel certain I won't get lynched.

This is why I said you were behaving like caught scum, ftr Noodle. The only way you soft PR like this is if you are scum because if you were actually a PR you would be trying to get the wagon off you so that you didn't have to claim, not sitting back and refusing to engage with people at risk of getting run up to L-1.

I disagree. I've seen newer players soft claim at the first sniff of a wagon on them.

And I don't think it's pro town to announce soft claims to everyone.

[nancy]

I admire your effort Loopdan but I have a proven track record of fakeclaiming and hiding my reads as Town so the only way for you to actually push for my lynch right now is by scumclaiming.

[nancy]

And I don't think it's pro town to announce soft claims to everyone.

It's completely pro-town if you are a PR and the soft is fake.

[Srceenplay]

As bad as you say the strategy was, it's worse to go against it and have another pr killed.

I going to think a bit but right now at the very least you are a policy lynch.

[Loopdan]

Your only case on me, Noodle, is some garbage about how I must have lied about not knowing that I was an SE before immediately correcting myself (because that's totally a thing that futhers scum win-con????) and that my focus on teaching and gameplay rather than on gearing up the game with claims is playing against my win-con, both of which are completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and that I was somehow dodging your questions despite having already answered them and despite having produced more content so far than several other slots on the table /combined/. Your scumread on me is vacuous and lazy and if you want to not be lynched you should get off your ass and expend a little more than the modicum of effort I've seen from you so far.

I kept my scumread of Pine secret for reasons that I've already stated in the /same paragraph/ as where I stated that I had kept it secret.

You cannot dance with a scum if they do not think you are Town.

I considered waiting until after you had posted, Drixx, but I weighed the pros and cons decided I was fine with making the post. Thoughts on Noodle, Tes, and the gamestate, please.

I'll explain why the bold part is scummy.

Scum knows who is town, so the statement makes no sense. Town!nancy would not mistakenly say that she had to get pine!scum to think she is town, because town!nancy would have in mind that scum already knows her alignment. However, it is more likely that scum!nancy would make this mistake, as she has to put herself in the mindset of herself being town and "scum reading" pine, who she then has to convince that she is town (in her mind nancy knows she is scum and so even though she is trying to put herself in a town mindset here she can't help but think about being townread by pine).

[TesXX]

Well, we just wait for a counterclaim.

[Loopdan]

Because that means we have no doc to protect the tracker. Am I wrong?

This is the only thing that gives me pause about a nancy lynch. I fully expected Noodle to CC nancy here.

And if he isn't then town!nancy jumping on his soft-claim makes sense.

[TesXX]

I think Stealthy is a pr.
Explanation to come l8er