Open 680: C9++ (Abandoned due to mod error. See new thread)

[ThinkBig]

VC 1.14

Official Vote Count

CommKnight

(5): Umlaut, tojam2, FireScreamer, shannon, Alchemist21

shannon

(2): FrankJaeger, Green Crayons

tojam2

(1): beeboy

Green Crayons

(1): CommKnight

Ircher

(1): TwoFace

FrankJaeger

(1): davesaz

No Lynch

(1): Ircher

Not Voting

(1): Charloux

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-04-17 12:22:58)

Mod Note

See you all Wednesday night! Sorry that the VC format have not been consistent. I have been doing these over mobile phone. Phone vote counts suck.

[TwoFace]

Mine

Stingy. Sharing is caring

[FireScreamer]

TF. Do you think i'm smothering the game by being too active? Should I let people who are not me sort each other?

[TwoFace]

Since I'm usually guilt of the same thing, I'd say yes it's a good idea to sit back and let others talk. But the others have to talk. Typically when I do that, they don't so I talk some more.

[FireScreamer]

Yeah thats sort of where ive been.

[TwoFace]

This is my problem with people on this site. Town players for whatever reason feel like minimum effort is acceptable, to some even no effort.

[ThinkBig]

Mod Note

RoryMK replaces Charloux effective upon his first post. Please welcome him!

[FireScreamer]

Yeah. My first newbie game had town -Grey- in it so I was a bit spoiled and complacent when I joined Twoface mafia. Then I learned lessons in that game that I think im overcompensating for here.

[Aristophanes]

Mod Note

RoryMK replaces Charloux effective upon his first post. Please welcome him!

Dammit! You beat me to it

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Open 680 - Cog and Comm ISO - Day 1

1. 153 --> In response to Fire's 152, "Yeah. I found mafia." -->

Ugh, these kinds of people are annoying. --> Null (0)

2. 255 --> States that you can gain info by looking at who votes along {an unjustified vote} with an unjustified vote then starts name-calling. -->

Really feels like shade-throwing especially on reread; if you look at the post I linked in brackets, you can see that Cog's original vote was also unjustified. What makes my vote worse? (Granted, it would be fair to say that both were bad votes.) Also, the clear lack of elaboration on the kind of info gained is also something to consider. --> Scummy (-2)

3. 327 --> Something to do with Green voting Cog, and all the current wagons are fluff, and the Shannon wagon definitely has scum on it -->

This post feels off. The tone is clearly assertive (maybe a better word could be used?); statements are made with practically absolute confidence and without a hint of doubt. This tone leads me to believe that Comm knows more (ie: Mafia) than he rest of us. Granted, this isn't an absolute tell, but something definitely to pay attention to more closely. --> Suspicious (-1)

4. 370 --> Starts by bragging about his success in a role madness (and prob. bastard) game. Gut town on shannon. Ircher pushing No Lynch is suspicious, but inconclusive. Green seems try-hardy, and, {and I quote}, "Plus he's getting like zero attention." More boasting, and declares that Green is scum/3rd party "for sure" and shannon is 100% a mislynch. -->

I try to keep my summaries as unbiased as possible, but, in this case, my summary clearly shows my bias. Anyway, the #1 thing from this post has got to be the blatantly false statement that Green is getting zero attention; lots of people have expressed reads there. Moving onward, another thing about this post is how sure he is that Green is scum based solely on a gut read. Like what??? Last thing to note is the absolute statement that shannon is 100% a mislynch -- is Comm always this absolute in his posts? - Scummy (-2)

5. 387 --> Defense against Green's 386 -->

1) is a semi-valid point

except

that your read was gut in nature. People have presented cases, and if you feel that strongly about your read, you have to explain why you disagree with what's been presented: I disagreee with XYZ's case because ________. 2) would be semi-valid except that there is enough content to get more than an ultra-thin gut read on multiple prominent players. You have shown little evidence of having read the thread. I agree that 3) from Green was unnecessary and pretty much covered by 2 already. The personal attack in 4) is noted although Green's 4) was kinda lousy to begin with. 5) is not alignment-indicative and is valid even if the theory is flawed. I think I pointed out the provable false assertion in 6) so that's definitely invalid. The attack in 7) is again noted as well as the fact that 7) from Green was by no means necessary. 8) feels like a bad defense from your side and a misrep from Green's side. Overall, this post does very little to help your case, if anything, it furthers Green's case. --> Scummy (-2)

6. 404 --> {Long} post on how none of the other cases are good and that his gut has never been wrong before -->

Okay, I see -- you have become arrogant simply due to a few good games. Don't let that blind you from the big picture. Other people can have valid arguments too, you know. Also, are you ever going to explain why the cases presented so far are bad? (Yours, might I add, doesn't seem much better, if at all.) --> Neutral (0)

7. 409 --> What's actually said is way less important compared to diction and tone -->

Notable tone shift from assertive to aggressive and vain that just happens to be a point in Comm's favor as it suggests genuine confirmation bias, which more often than no (imo) comes from town. I would like to point out though that if anyone is n "RC Jr.", it has got to be you. --> Somewhat Townie (+1)

8. 413 --> Elaborates on why 413 makes him gutread shannon as town -->

It's about time, and surprisingly, the tone has shifted once more. It's assertive, but not absolute and not overly so. It's interesting though how the tone shifted so quickly. Tell me Comm -- what caused you to change to a less aggressive tone so suddenly? - Somewhat Townie (+1)

Honestly, I started this post leaning scum and maintained that read throughout the majority of the ISO. Point 7 though is where my read takes a 180 and my new read is maintained b the rest of the ISO.

So, what caused such sharp turn in opinion? It's diction and tone; the way Comm is communicating his thoughts. Mafia never should be about someone's point; it should be about the way they communicate that point. Comm does a good job of communicating that what he states is genuinely what he thinks. His attitude and boasting actively help him by giving the player a guage of his personality. Sure, scum is still a possibility, but much less so than when I started this.

[davesaz]

TF. Do you think i'm smothering the game by being too active? Should I let people who are not me sort each other?

Since I'm usually guilt of the same thing, I'd say yes it's a good idea to sit back and let others talk. But the others have to talk. Typically when I do that, they don't so I talk some more.

I don't think it's too much at all. Sometimes it helps me to know what topics other players are interested in. You aren't jumping in and intercepting other investigation threads and that's good. One thing I'd caution about, some people inherently write less and it's important to recognize the difference between not having much to say vs. holding back purposefully to hide.

[FireScreamer]

If Comm wants to avoid being lynched he needs to show a willingness to work with people and provide a viable alternative wagon which certainly isn't GC.

[CommKnight]

@Ircher, this sums me up.



I'm not afraid to be wrong. It's a game at the end of the day. I am guilty of being blunt and skipping over things. D1 I have always hated as town. People believe they got the greatest thing ever, but without a flip, without some night abilities going on, D1 cases end up being not the best. Me not starting the day either didn't let me grab someone into a 1v1 early on to wrestle them for a claim or sort them. I replaced into a time when people think they got good reads and FS really isn't productive today for a D1. There's people who have hardly spoken and he wants to hog all the space.

Tomorrow though I plan on pushing a few who have taken a backseat to everything thus far. I don't like lurkers.

[FireScreamer]

Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant if you can't explain your reasoning and win people to your side.

[FireScreamer]

I still have no idea why you are townreading Shannon. The Ircher wagon wasn't going to go anywhere and scum defends town in that situation all the time. It wasn't even a defense that made any sense.

[CommKnight]

It might not make sense to you FS, but it made sense to me. Right now that's what matters in my reads. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm wrong. Nor just because my explanations aren't to your liking, does not mean I need to explain it in another way. I have stated why I've townread Shannon, if you disagree, you disagree. Now are you going to let people actually talk besides with just me and you or are we going to repeat the same thing all over again because you refuse give up on my TR reasoning? It's D1, if Shannon does anything else scummy that I'm the one to pick up on, then I'll call her ass out for it. Otherwise I'm comfortable with my read currently.

[FireScreamer]

People can talk all they want. Page numbers go on forever. You seem to have picked up on my activity wavering and seem eager to push on that nerve. Interesting.

[FireScreamer]

See if it was just a townread i'd maybe understand but you actively chainsawed into GC for her which isnt really a justifiable town action.

[Ircher]

]It might not make sense to you FS, but it made sense to me.

Right now that's what matters in my reads. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm wrong.

Nor just because my explanations aren't to your liking, does not mean I need to explain it in another way.

I have stated why I've townread Shannon,

if you disagree, you disagree.

Now are you going to let people actually talk besides with just me and you or are we going to repeat the same thing all over again because you refuse give up on my TR reasoning? It's D1, if Shannon does anything else scummy that I'm the one to pick up on, then I'll call her ass out for it. Otherwise I'm comfortable with my read currently.

Please read the bolded.

Thank you.

[FireScreamer]

Eh. I mean i'm seeing what you mean Ircher. And i'm heavily easing up on you for defending a slot that was a viable lynch and was an alternative to yourself.

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE:

Still happy with a Shannon lynch but I don't think thats actually a very productive conversation till closer to the deadline as its been done to death already. I want to wait till a couple of replacements catch up and twoface does his analysis tomorrow before go after my next target. But I already know who it is and i'll probably get impatient.

[Ircher]

Also, I don't see the tr of shannon and sr of Green as connected (which must be the case for it to be a chainsaw); what makes you think it's a chainsaw versus just 2 reads.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

Prob. should stop voting NL...

[FireScreamer]

UNVOTE:

Prob. should stop voting NL...

What was that anyway? Were you fishing for reactions or was it just an emotional response?

[Ircher]

Just how I felt about the gamestate. So I guess the latter; it wasn't really to accomplish anything.