Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Not Chara]

And NC: I'm going with the safe bet. Idk whose scum, but I have said multiple times whose in my lynch pool. IMO, it's a process of elimination. What do you care if lycan gets lynched or not? If he's scum, that's good for us. Only his buddies would care. I'm unsure about you too, but I'm going off of your hints and current play to guess. If proven otherwise, then you'll be lynched and that's that, but til then, I have to go with the most likely scum. You not wanting to claim after the things you've said seems pointless to me, and no doubt scum think the same if you are town, but that's your choice. Lycan is a lurker just like Vifam was, and we're at the stage where lurker scum need the rope. It's that simple.

i know Vifam/lycan are in your lynchpool, but i don't see how a VT claim tells you anything about Alisae's alignment. i suppose in the grand scheme of things my reads on those two are not different enough that i vastly prefer one over the other, but i do think it's more likely for Alisae to flip scum. i just don't want any more claims we don't need.

[Not Chara]

i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have

Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.

[Not Chara]

i was looking for Socrates's questions but i'll just let them quote it, because i'm not sure what's that pressing in there. things like my misremembering where ABR's vote was at the end of day 1, are resolved just by informing me.
but i did realize from that ISO that Socrates's allusion to why Desperado is scum and why the scumteam probably has a roleblocker are related to the post i just quoted from Desp.

[Desperado]

i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have

Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.

doc + vig isn't that powerful of a town to begin with, why would scum need a direct counter?

majiffy already flipping a relatively useless role + all the VT claims suggests to me that there's not much in the way of scum power, which suggests that there isn't much town power beyond what's claimed either

[Tywin Lannister]

There's no need for me to explain. I WILL be heavily scrutinizing your play day 3, however.

Care to respond to my other posts pointed your way? They are still relevant.

I'm giving you my dragon ball tonight. If it doesn't arrive, then Imperium's question about whether ball passing can be roleblocked can be considered officially answered.

Capiche?

sorry, could you quote the posts? i can't remember any pending questions but i can go look.

and yes, i understand, believe me. with that in mind i'd actually recommend giving the ball to someone else, like Tywin.

This is only a temperary solution, because after the known PRs are gone, I'll be next due to semi-confirmed status. If there's a roleblocker, it's even possible I'll be first to go. Giving any balls to me at this point is a bad bet, because scum could capitalize on it, especially when it's said in-thread.

[Tywin Lannister]

So basically, it's better to not give me them and make scum actually work to find them. Socrates' ball will need to be moved if he's really the doc. There are a few options to pass them to that are semi-safe bets IMO. I'd go that route.

[Not Chara]

i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have

Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.

doc + vig isn't that powerful of a town to begin with, why would scum need a direct counter?

majiffy already flipping a relatively useless role + all the VT claims suggests to me that there's not much in the way of scum power, which suggests that there isn't much town power beyond what's claimed either

allowing the town a vig-kill every single night isn't strong?

[Not Chara]

hm, no. i suppose that isn't exactly it. after massclaim the vig can only get 2 more kills off, so it isn't absolute.

[Socrates]

NC, when I gave you links to the interval of the game that made me Town Read ABR, did you click through and read it yourself, or did you just decide to wait for me to fill in the details?

Also give me an example of Desperado "Pushing" an ABR lynch. Multiples would be nice.

If these examples could be found on day 2, that would be even better.

These two.

These are less important now that I'm less inclined to think you are scum hard-defending a townie, but I am still curious as to your responses.

[Not Chara]

ah. first quote, i remember reading it but that was at a time i was

convinced

you and ABR were the scumteam. i still believe ABR is scum but i don't think you are. i do understand your reasoning from that time, and if i'm remembering correctly i still do, i just don't agree and think he was pocketing you.

on Desperado: first day he was certainly talking about his scumread on ABR and about the formation of narratives from it. Desp hasn't done anything today besides right at the beginning so that's a dead-end.

[Desperado]

allowing the town a vig-kill every single night isn't strong?

not when you factor in a vig's likelihood to shoot town, no

[Not Chara]

you're right, vigilantes are swingy.
but if you consider

good

vig-play, even if the vig eliminates town lurkers and weak players i still consider it a net gain. lynching those players isn't helpful but hitting them at night is a good thing.
still i understand your argument now so it's fine not to debate this further.

[Socrates]

hm, no. i suppose that isn't exactly it. after massclaim the vig can only get 2 more kills off, so it isn't absolute.

2 more kills puts us at endgame and the vig is no longer as relevant (having the SK question resolved at that point would be nice), as I already mentioned.

BUT:

but i did realize from that ISO that Socrates's allusion to why Desperado is scum and why the scumteam probably has a roleblocker are related to the post i just quoted from Desp.

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE NOTICES.

[Tywin Lannister]

And NC: I'm going with the safe bet. Idk whose scum, but I have said multiple times whose in my lynch pool. IMO, it's a process of elimination. What do you care if lycan gets lynched or not? If he's scum, that's good for us. Only his buddies would care. I'm unsure about you too, but I'm going off of your hints and current play to guess. If proven otherwise, then you'll be lynched and that's that, but til then, I have to go with the most likely scum. You not wanting to claim after the things you've said seems pointless to me, and no doubt scum think the same if you are town, but that's your choice. Lycan is a lurker just like Vifam was, and we're at the stage where lurker scum need the rope. It's that simple.

i know Vifam/lycan are in your lynchpool, but i don't see how a VT claim tells you anything about Alisae's alignment. i suppose in the grand scheme of things my reads on those two are not different enough that i vastly prefer one over the other, but i do think it's more likely for Alisae to flip scum. i just don't want any more claims we don't need.

VT claims don't tell me anything, but I've been wanting to vote Vifam's slot as the safe bet regardless. It's entirely possible that it's one of the scum slots, and removing them, while not solving the game, is still good for town. They will be lynched eventually regardless due to the double lurk, and I don't want them in Lylo if it comes to that. It's better to get rid of them now and let the rest sort itself as the game goes on.

I'd think you'd agree with me as town. Lycan is the last null player outside of you/ABR IMO, and everyone else is a crapshoot between VT claims. Lycan needs the rope. There's little reason not to at this point. There's always one scum lurker in practically ever game, and that slot has flaked twice. Vifam never flakes as town, so my assumption seems like a good one.

The only reason none of us went after the Vifam slot before was due to the inevitable replacement, but that's done with. The double flake is a pretty strong scum tell, which Socrates already mentioned as well. It's possible Alisae is scum too, but I'd rather go with what seems to be the best bet over gambling on which VT claim is fake. IMO, Alisae or Clumsy are the best choices there, unless ABR really is scum. Since ABR clearly isn't going to be lynched today, what else is there to do? Why push Alisae over Lycan here? They're equal in the scummy department, but one is a double flake slot that we all know tends to be scum in these games.

[Not Chara]

my preference for Alisae is because i'm scumreading him some while i'm pretty null on lycan/Vifam. that's really it. i don't really follow activity scumtells because i've seen scum cling to slots because they're scum and feel bad, and seen town flake because they're bored or too lazy to catch up. if your experience is different i understand feeling differently, but that's my position. i understand the policy for fear of lylo issues but i'd really love to see some flips from all of the arguing today so we have more to go on tomorrow. even if that means tomorrow is the time to lynch lycanfire, i'd rather decide that then.

[Not Chara]

and sorry Socrates. sometimes things just take me a while if i'm not thinking in the right way. ;>

[Lycanfire]

40 pages in atm. just found out i'm going to be going to work to observe some renovation/cleaning of the building over night which my boss said would be "watching movies on your phone, thanks".

this is just a post advertising that i have nothing better to do than jam tonight if anyone wants to keep me company while i catch up

[Not Chara]

well lycan, i can't promise i'll be around tonight but i'd love to hear what you think about the game so far. since there are players who want to lynch your slot for inactivity.

[Socrates]

ah. first quote, i remember reading it but that was at a time i was

convinced

you and ABR were the scumteam. i still believe ABR is scum but i don't think you are. i do understand your reasoning from that time, and if i'm remembering correctly i still do, i just don't agree and think he was pocketing you.

I figured I was the third scum you were implying.

The thought occured that he was just trying to impress me, but frankly, I don't think Albert respects me enough as a player to think he would need to jump through all of those hoops just to pocket me. My thinking is that he would only bother playing 'bad cop' with Clumsy after the claim and then backing off and waiting for the rest of the town to weigh in (what pro-town Albert does in that position), rather than just pissing on Clumsy's responses and forcing through the lynch, is if he was actually in the middle of a hard bus and suddenly found himself off the bus. It's equally likely that Scum!ABR would double down on the bus PRECISELY to get that town cred, but he didn't.

The thing that makes me wander back to the bus theory is the way he slowly reworked his scumread on CP day 2 after one member of the scumteam turned up dead. Clumsy's hammer felt marginally unnatural to me, and if Scum!Clumsy did that hammer, I suspect it would be because he was coached to do so. That coach would be Albert.

This is all tin-foil though, and I am not particularly invested in it at this time.

on Desperado: first day he was certainly talking about his scumread on ABR and about the formation of narratives from it. Desp hasn't done anything today besides right at the beginning so that's a dead-end.

Precisely.

[Not Chara]

i'm not sure if ABR jumped through too many hoops to pocket you. but i'd need to reread that entire exchange to see who really started the conversation. your response here makes me pause because i didn't think ABR did anything particularly big that you didn't hint at him about. i'd thought it was theatre (distancing via looking like pocketing) but now i think it was just him taking advantage of the situation presented.
but i've given up on lynching ABR today, and i've no desire to re-ignite the argument right now.
do you still want to lynch Desperado? how would you feel about Alisae, lycan?

and on that second part of the post: yes, i know. if he's scum he's certainly not trying. and i owe Tywin an apology in post.

[Socrates]

I do want to see a Desperado flip right now. If he is scum, I suspect his buddy is in the lurkers.

Barring that, I want to see how Lycan performs. In a vacuum, I'm okay seeing that slot die.

Alisae was a townread day 1, and my intuition is that he is the type of player who would feel dirty maliciously using his emotional state as a weapon in game as scum*. (Though he still might not be able to contain it as scum, just that he would try harder to do so.)

Can you recap what makes him scummy? Sheeping Albert?

(*Evidence to the contrary will prompt an immediate and serious re-evaluation of him)

I suppose it's time to throw out my vote:

vote: Desperado

[Albert B. Rampage]

Waiting on lycan and zefiend

[Socrates]

Also,

I also revealed receiving the ball because I wanted people to know that ClumsyPheonix did that. What do YOU make of him doing that?

Town who trusted you or scum p with you (in which case this may or may not be true to begin with). There's no 3rd way about it. Scum will not pass a ball to Town and Town would not lie about receiving a ball. Since we all chose to trust you then you should be both Town.

If Almost is scum, this is him trying to set up a false association with his buddy.

[Alisae]

Catching up.

[Alisae]

Alisae: wanting to hammer Maria was dragonball motivated. why no response to my comments about Code Geass or your play this game?

Wait, I was supposed to respond to your comments about meta?