DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[The Wood Cutters]

If anything that would reset AC to an unclaimed state.

That is the argument I was making to drealmer earlier. That's the point I'm making when people are asking AC to provide flavor for the VT claim that they already established was a gambit.

[Commander Shepard]

TWC rushing to AC's defense is all kinds of hella bad.

Mind backing up that statement, or are you continuing not to attempt to convince anyone of anything because you can't?

Again I am phone posting and trying not to spam every post. I am also going slowly.

Mainly I disagree on how your slot has been acting towards AC.

AC is following some things I feel are scummy and then got called out for it and are now having to backtrack for AC while townreading AC.

[The Wood Cutters]

@Gin (of TWC) I want to work with people too.

I am just calling out posts that feel wrong rather than replying to every post.

Furthermore I don't like the gambit responses. If anything that would reset AC to an unclaimed state. Mastina if Town would push AC as town similar to pushes in SU2. I am trying to read Mastina head and it is difficult when I don't see them post.

This is going to break your heart, but as of right now you'll only be getting Nacho and I. mastina plus reasons of life, means she hasn't been here, only fulfilling her modding duties.

I can more than likely say that she'll be around later on the game but as of this moment it's an exercise in futility. Also yes we miss her too.

[The Wood Cutters]

Data on my omnitool says Infinity has fake claimed cop before. I do not find the miller claim believable. Furthermore miller does match the history in the sense of neveer being crowned but a 12 year old boy who gets assassinated by Richard is unlikely a miller.

Fakeclaiming miller as scum takes a very different mindset than fakeclaiming cop, in my opinion. Fakeclaiming cop is usually a defensive play that has concrete scum benefits. It makes you less likely to get lynched, it gives you the ability to fake results on people (innocent or guilty), and it draws out one of the most dangerous roles in a mafia game. The only tangible benefit fakeclaiming miller as scum gives you is the ability to dodge investigations; it takes away your ability to fakeclaim out of danger, it comes with a fair amount of heat early game (and if there's no cop late game, even more heat), and it's something you have to commit too immediately.

I think that the miller flavor makes perfect sentence; we are monarchs, he didn't get crowned. I don't find that "being assassinated by Richard" means he can't be a miller (he would obviously be living during this game), I don't care about his age.

Actually TWC, AlmostChara, and you makes a lot more sense, only if infinity is town though. I had TWC as a townlean until you poked them with "you do look scummy TWC".
That is something either said to a buddy or someone you know is town. I don't like it.

This doesn't make any sense, but it also doesn't seem to serve any scum agenda. Townread!

VOTE: Infinity324

I don't believe the miller claim the more I think about it.

I liked the progression of this read.

Why would you have to think about future scumreads?

I think about "future scumreads" to see if they still make sense based on my current worldview.
In a game like this where I'm not confident about a whole lot, it's less important - one town flip still leaves plenty of people who I'm unsure about, so my world isn't shaken up all that much. If I was extremely confident about a player and not really other people (and then had people I was scumreading based on their interactions with that person), then it's helpful to see who would be cleared and who wouldn't be in your hypothetical world to see if the gamestate you're selling is valid or not.

A townie response would be that you hadn't considered that case yet. Or just thinking about it and then replying. You aren't town because you are trying to plan out your reads versus just having them.

What's the difference between saying she hadn't considered that case yet (townie response) and saying that she hadn't thought that far ahead (her actual response)? Both things seem equivalent to me.
I don't think that mixing up "town" and "scum" is a a significant scumtell. For one, both words are pretty closely related in how we store them in our memories; they're both mafia terms used to express an opinion of a person. Secondly, even if that was a Freudian slip, it's not the only explanation; it could be that Postie's confidence in Wraith isn't as high as she's letting on, it could be that she's worried that Wraith will flip town, it could be her subconscious expressing that Wraith is the only thing she feels good about and she has no idea where she's going from there.
I don't mind scumslips when they're used as a tool in part of a larger read, but I also find that the importance of a possible scumslip is sometimes exaggerated.

ThinkMomo + Wraith town block?

This is a strange position for scum to take in general.

I offer you my vote if I am wrong.

You vote to lynch me.

Wtf? You are acting as if I am some person not in the game, state you clearly townread me, yet you vote me?

I townread you but I do not get this st all.

You specifically said "Let's not do this" I stay out of thread except to offer my vote and now you want to policy lynch me.

Wouldn't you want me to sheep you if you are amazing Town/scum?

This post also seemed strongly genuine, would be an extraordinarily blatant and ballsy move as scum to get offended when someone starts scumreading them after they offered to sheep.

Not to me it doesn't. And flavor breaking a setup is dumb. Otherwise we would all just flavor claim and pick the least favorite ones.

Wasn't flavor breaking the setup.
I have flavor that explains my role. So does Infinity. That's reassuring, although it's the least significant part of my read on him.

Can you please sign your posts?

I am fairly confused as to how our posting styles are getting mixed up (my formatting and sentences seem fairly distinctive from where I'm standing), but okay.

-Nacho

This is a post that I was frustrated you ignored because I chose you specifically because I thought people were treating you poorly. I tried to engage with your major arguments, and, at a minimum, I expected acknowledgement. I get annoyed when people completely ignore me, it makes me feel like they don't feel my opinion is worth anything at all (and this is doubled when I'm specifically reaching out to someone).

[Commander Shepard]

If anything that would reset AC to an unclaimed state.

That is the argument I was making to drealmer earlier. That's the point I'm making when people are asking AC to provide flavor for the VT claim that they already established was a gambit.

Except it isn't what you are doing.

You haven't actually reset.

I think AC should have flavor claimed because of the fact that time is running short and flavor doesn't break a setup.

The flavor claim would have gone a long way towards authenticity.

[Commander Shepard]

@TWC sorry missed that post in all the spam reading now

[The Wood Cutters]

I also thought that I directed a question to you in the next post but it turns a out I forgot and I'm an idiot, so sorry for that. I would like to hear your opinion on my response to the Tea scumslip in particular, though.

[Almost Chara]

i haven't quite read up, but i want fitz dead. not Cloud, and we need a lynch. why isn't Gin scumreading fitz?
~Chara

pedit: Shepard, do you really think scum don't have fakeclaims?

[The Wood Cutters]

i haven't quite read up, but i want fitz dead. not Cloud, and we need a lynch. why isn't Gin scumreading fitz?
~Chara

pedit: Shepard, do you really think scum don't have fakeclaims?

Nacho and Gin have given lots of reasons recently in our ISO.

[The Wood Cutters]

Except it isn't what you are doing.

You haven't actually reset.

I think AC should have flavor claimed because of the fact that time is running short and flavor doesn't break a setup.

The flavor claim would have gone a long way towards authenticity.

I haven't reset on AC because I've formed a read there. I have reset AC to an unclaimed state (which wasn't too difficult because I didn't think it was a claim they were making seriously anyways).

I don't think flavor claims are significant when fakeclaims re provided, as they are in a majority of theme games.

[Almost Chara]

I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that lynching CK isn't nearly as informative as lynching us or fitz.

Lynching scum is better than lynching town. Do you agree or disagree with this assertion?

yeah, we happen to have a major scumread on fitz and that case was terrible.
~Chara

[The Wood Cutters]

viewtopic.php?t=69244&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... ct%5B%5D=0

This is his response to getting lynched on Day 1 the last time I was town against him scum, by the way. Pay special attention to the end, it looks nothing like here.

I do think as scum in this position he would claim a stronger power role, I certainly would. One-shot commuter isn't a role that looks exceptionally town, and the thread temperature at the time (Farside said she'd vote him, CK had him as a scumread and the score otherwise was 6-5) said he was getting lynched unless he did something big, and claiming a weak power role like that is a really shitty thing to do to your scumteam since it's not going to draw a counterclaim. I know that Fitz is aware of this, and I doubt he would have made that claim to appeal to me specifically and based on the last time he was scum against me I don't think he thinks he could just talk his way out of it.

@TWC

wrt #1483 - I'm not "still pushing" any specific poiints I made about AC. I'm voting AC because I suspect them. All of the points I gave are the reasons I came to suspect them. I'm not saying everyone needs to go vote AC right now because of my first three points. I'm saying how my AC suspicions evolved. And if some of the earlier points don't hold ass much weight later in the game...the later points still exist.

As for their "gambit"...I don't care. I'm not a huge fan of gambits. There was nothing pro-town about it imo. Even if AC were town it just injects unneccessary wifom. And they're self proclaiming the gambit as a reason they are town....which by default makes it scummy. i.e. Don't tell us why you are town....play like town and let us decide.

And I didn't call anything out specifically as a lie becuase I don't recall seeing one. The VT claim's veracity in unknown. It went from a claim to a maybe...could be....who knows. Hence the "claim was fake...or not" comment. idfk.

wrt #1484 - first off...I treat hydras actions/comments as being from one conjoined player. I'm not playing with Almost50 and Not Chara. I'm playing with Almost Chara. So pointing out individual posts they make to excuse what they say or do means nothing to me.

As for the "scum trying to save me point"...what is your point? I asked for an example of what they were referring to. The comment makes no sense for the reasons I gave with the point. Assuming I was scum (which I am not)...who are the scum buddies trying their best to save me? It's completely inaccurate based on the last scumread list I could find by AC. If their reads have changed to some other duo of scum buddies trying hard to protect me it went unnoticed by me.

So who does AC scum read currently and how are they trying their best to save me? It's exactly what I called it...Ridiculous ATE HYPERBOLE. Whether it syncs with their scumreads or not actually....in the absence of knowing who they were referring to and going off their last list...its actually False & Ridiculous ATE HYPERBOLE.

@AC...do you still suspect TeaBiscuit and farside? And if not...where was that voiced in the game and who are the scum buddies trying so hard to save me?

I think that this post looks good, it dispels a lot of the concerns on him I brought up earlier. I think a lot of scum players struggle with maintaining this kind of energy in the face of almost certain death, and I think that Fitz is one of those people - as scum he might be able to fake the case but I don't think the "fuck the townies voting me" aspect of it would be as pronounced.

If you are town, I hope you change your approach in the future once you're spoiled.

I love when people (scum or town) pushing mislynches shift all the blame on the person being lynched. It's not your fault town!TWC your read on my is shit. It's my fault for being so darn scummy. Shame on me!

This in particular is one of those "fuck you" posts that seemed incredibly genuine to me.

@TWC...I haven't dialogued with you because I think you're scum. Iirc you're voting me already. If there is a question your vote is hinging on..ask it. I'm not going to pour through your ISO looking for questions or respond in entirety to the wallpost you made wrt me yesterday.

This interaction I also don't think happens if he's scum here; a couple people in this game have called this slot one of the scarier ones in the game, Fitz has seen me push lynches like nobody's business before, no way in hell his response to me as scum is "I'm not digging through your posts, you're scum, I'm not wasting time convincing you. If you want to talk, you need to make things concise and approach me." - this is not how scum talk when they are seconds away from death.

It's a player specific point. I can keep the energy up just fine when being lynched, you can just fine, Fitz can't.

I read the last few posts, I really don't see how it's different

This is a joke right

1) In this game, he's had 36 posts in a week. In that game, he had 39 in over double that amount of time.

2)

Nacho...talk to me. Since you essentially kick started this wagon on me. How am I scum and how am I a better lynch than some of the other candidates?

Granted if town is going to have a mislynches it's better to get it out of the way D1 but I'd like to contribute through a few days at least. It's in your best interests.

Preview edit. Ffs.

I'm a jailkeeper

Oh, you're the one pushing the wagon on me?
Talk to me about it, I'll make you feel better!

@TWC...I haven't dialogued with you because I think you're scum. Iirc you're voting me already. If there is a question your vote is hinging on..ask it. I'm not going to pour through your ISO looking for questions or respond in entirety to the wallpost you made wrt me yesterday.

Oh, you're the one pushing the wagon on me?
Too bad, I think you're scum.

3)

I'm town. Stop pushing a mislynch for what?
Busy RL day. If I'm still alive in the morning I'll be available to discuss further.
zzzzzzzzz

Nacho...talk to me. Since you essentially kick started this wagon on me. How am I scum and how am I a better lynch than some of the other candidates?

Granted if town is going to have a mislynches it's better to get it out of the way D1 but I'd like to contribute through a few days at least. It's in your best interests.

Preview edit. Ffs.

I'm a jailkeeper

This is him calling himself town and complaining about being mislynched as scum.
This looks radically different than his response to being lynched here.

Here are some posts talking about why.

[The Wood Cutters]

I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that lynching CK isn't nearly as informative as lynching us or fitz.

Lynching scum is better than lynching town. Do you agree or disagree with this assertion?

yeah, we happen to have a major scumread on fitz and that case was terrible.
~Chara

It was a crappy case. I talked about why. I think that the case was genuine, and, while he approaches certain things far differently than I do, I don't think it was faked.

[Commander Shepard]

The main difference is the thought process.

Reads are native and instinctual. They may be based on facts and logic gut or 280000 other things but they are based on those things.

Asking a read based on a conditional should either A) get a new response of the situation B) I refuse to consider that C) I hadn't considered that let me read

What T&B did assumes A) they will stick around that long and B) says they arent concerned with the gamestate as a whole. And C) Implies reads are based on how far they can think ahead but aren't based on anything in thread.

That is the difference to me.

[Almost Chara]

okay. i accept that you're townreading fitz, but i'm not. i don't think one game where he reacted to a lynch different as scum means anything. was the context the same? did fitz have a competing wagon he could hope would be lynched instead in that other game? is he just feeling like he has more time?

do you know fitz well enough to say definitively he wouldn't fight as scum? do you know if odd-night commuter is simply his real role and he doesn't have a fake roleclaim because his role doesn't have an inherent alignment?
or do you really expect scum here to always go for the PR claim to draw out the CC before they're lynched proper? fitz is trying to survive, not find PRs, and it's because he thought he could get us lynched.
~Chara

[Commander Shepard]

@AC You are being lynched.

Fitz's claim makes sense. Lynching Fitz is bad.

[The Wood Cutters]

The main difference is the thought process.

Reads are native and instinctual. They may be based on facts and logic gut or 280000 other things but they are based on those things.

Asking a read based on a conditional should either A) get a new response of the situation B) I refuse to consider that C) I hadn't considered that let me read

What T&B did assumes A) they will stick around that long and B) says they arent concerned with the gamestate as a whole. And C) Implies reads are based on how far they can think ahead but aren't based on anything in thread.

That is the difference to me.

I understand your perspective here.

I disagree with it because while you are correct based on a very literal interpretation of their words, people aren't generally so precise with language and thus meaning is a little more fluid. Saying that she hasn't thought that far ahead, to me, is equivalent to her not seriously considering it yet. I think this is a common perspective to have; I can't seriously consider what happens if a strong scumread flips town until they flip town; I can guess, but actually thinking down and putting out productive content only happens when my worldview is shaken up significantly.

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it.

[Commander Shepard]

It is the reason that people aren't so precise with words that hidden thoughts come out.

If people were precise then those types of issues wouldn't happen.

Or you can trust the person saying Fitz is town lynch AC.

[The Wood Cutters]

was the context the same? did fitz have a competing wagon he could hope would be lynched instead in that other game?

I think it's fairly clear that you weren't getting lynched at that point based on what I pointed out before. In that game, I moved the lynch away from his incompetent scum partner onto him, but he certainly had chances to move the wagon elsewhere.

[The Wood Cutters]

do you know fitz well enough to say definitively he wouldn't fight as scum?

I've played with him a long time and I'd be pretty fucking surprised if he fought this long and like this as scum. I would not be breaking down a wagon with 8 hours to go unless I had a significant level of confidence.

[Commander Shepard]

i haven't quite read up, but i want fitz dead. not Cloud, and we need a lynch. why isn't Gin scumreading fitz?
~Chara

pedit: Shepard, do you really think scum don't have fakeclaims?

I think that scum have claims that fit the theme. Fake claims probably which makes me feel sketchy you didn't claim. It is like you want the cred of VT claiming and you and TWC built that up but then when feet to the fire are inventing room to maneuver.

[The Wood Cutters]

do you know if odd-night commuter is simply his real role and he doesn't have a fake roleclaim because his role doesn't have an inherent alignment?

When I said he had a fake claim, I meant fake flavor. Fake role is less important.

Odd night commuter is a role he could have as scum but it's a role that very clearly isn't going to save him if he claims it since it's effectively VT, as your partner pointed out.

[Commander Shepard]

I gotta go but I am going to be severely disappointed if we don't lynch AC today.

[Commander Shepard]

do you know if odd-night commuter is simply his real role and he doesn't have a fake roleclaim because his role doesn't have an inherent alignment?

When I said he had a fake claim, I meant fake flavor. Fake role is less important.

Odd night commuter is a role he could have as scum but it's a role that very clearly isn't going to save him if he claims it since it's effectively VT, as your partner pointed out.

HE IS VERY LIKELY TELLING THE TRUTH DO NOT LYNCH FITZ EVER.

[Almost Chara]

so you're saying the context isn't the same, because here we had fitz with a directly competing town wagon.
i'm not going to let Almost lynch us, but if we run down the deadline like this someone is going to be lynched and it'll be such a rushed wagon, no scum on it will have to take responsibility for their vote because 'deadline'. i really do hate eleventh hour lynches.
~Chara