Open 680: C9++ (Abandoned due to mod error. See new thread)

[Alchemist21]

(Also I'm uncomfortable with how quickly tojam-wagon became a thing--one might say, a counter to--when Comm-wagon was reaching popularity.)

Let's review that shall we?

tojam2 (5): beeboy, Green Crayons, CommKnight, FireScreamer, Ircher
CommKnight (4): Umlaut, tojam2, shannon, Alchemist21

Oh look. You were the second vote and I was the third. FS and Ircher are the only ones who "quickly" jumped on the wagon. Then your logic is "Hey, let's flip Comm because this wagon grew with myself on it with FS and Ircher joining last. So while I'm part of this 'counter-wagon' we should flip Comm so I can say 'oops, but this wagon grew soo fast. It had to be a counter wagon with me on it'."

Your argument INCLUDES YOU as part of that counter-wagon. It also includes FS and Ircher as well. So what, you think all the scum hopped onto tojam? I mean spit it out. If you think tojam is town now because he rage quit, say so and call us scum instead of hiding behind shadowing statements.

Meanwhile let's look at the lineup on me shall we? Umlaut, who I've been trying to sort. tojam, who we're all voting right now. Shannon who I TR but hasn't done much productive things other than me getting a sorting from one of her posts. And low and behold, Alchemist who if he was any more of a sheep, I'd have my shears ready. But yeah, you, me, FS and Ircher gotta be forming a counter-wagon to me eh? So why not go ahead and vote yourself if you think that.

Or are you trying to form a real counter-wagon to tojam's wagon?

Come on now, spit it out.

Is that bolded part what you're referring to? It's an accusation but it's a drop in the sea of posts with GC and you didn't indicate afterwards that you felt more strongly about that link.

[CommKnight]

Cool, so there we have it. If tojam flips red, I'm voting GC tomorrow with no room for movement. He's try harding now to protect his buddy after he replaces out, using it as some excuse to push back toward myself. Nice backpeddling. Now I want tojam to flip even more.

Yep, I'm confident in my wager now. I'm going to raise the stakes here is how confident I am of my reads. If toe flips green, I'll hammer myself tomorrow, if he flips red, you meet the noose D2 and town gets two scum in a row.

Or are you going to fold your cards and not call my wager? I'm confident in my reads. Are you in yours?

@GC, it's called "Hi, I'm Comm, I'm confident in my reads so much so I'll 1v1 you and shove it in your face post-game when I called your ass out when no one else would." If you're not gonna anti-up my bet, then sit down. Real men are scum-hunting here and one has found a good potential of two scum. The only way you're getting me to back down is with a PR claim or a cop claiming innocent on you at this point.

These posts are all pretty much the posts directly after the post you quoted if you look at my ISO. So yes, I did push it. In fact if you ISO us together, we were back and forth as well at the time. Yet now you pretend that one post is all I had to say? REALLY? If you're rereading. Better read it carefully eh?

[CommKnight]

Well I guess I never explicitly repeated it afterward, but since they are basically the posts right after... I'd assume people could draw that conclusion.

[Alchemist21]

Don't know how I missed it in 589. I was actually going backwards from your most recent posts trying to find it. Though I did skip over posts re: the wager because I just glossed over anything that looked like your ego talking.

[Alchemist21]

Also I was checking for an actual reason why you linked them so that's probably why I forgot about 589.

[davesaz]

Would need to read more to get a feel of the shannon wagon. CommKnight's 2nd post is tinged with Amished and potential chainsaw.

dave can you remind me what an Amished tell is? I always forget and there's no wiki page for it.

Strage, I can't find it either. Thought for sure there was a wiki page. Replacing in and discrediting / shading / disavowing your predecessor's actions.

[davesaz]

@CommKnight -- yes you had posts, but they are devoid of meaning. You do not give a concrete reason for the read. Even in context I don't see a reason -- if anything it looks like you're doing a manipulative cross-examination and GC handled it fine.

[Alchemist21]

Nah, the reason's actually there, it's just easy to miss because most of Comm's posts then were focused on GC. Just recently hit that point again in my reread and it looks like TvT to me.

[shannon]

How did you come to the conclusion that GC and Momo would definitely be scum together if one flips scum?

Did you forget my earlier push on them and the case I made about it when I took GC on a 1v1 for a while? If one flips red, the other is gonna have a pretty tough time convincing me they aren't red as well.

Want to come vote Momo then?

[shannon]

@Mod

: It's not Saturday afternoon for me; please don't expect much from me on Sunday as I'll be travelling (driving 3 hours then a flight). I hope to be back on Monday AM.

[Alchemist21]

Ircher's slot is still bugging me, but not for the same reason it was before. Going back through the game he seems pretty non-committal and apathetic. He was constantly making posts complaining about the game state, but never did anything to try and fix it. It got to a point where it stopped seeming scummy and just looked like he has depression. My early point about him was wrong though because I found a post before it happened where he mentioned being a dick can be fun, so his stubborness then cooperating after some votes (and looking back I don't think the votes actually pressured him into it) is likely just who he is as a person.

Even on reread Shannon's posts confuse me. Her posts come off as nooby and carefree that I'm really thinking "scum wouldn't play like this." Literally laughed reading back through when Shannon joined the Comm wagon again when Fire asked her.

Anyone still doubting Comm's claim? Someone said they were and I recommend that person and those who would agree look at Comm's ISO from Wertz and then read his ISO here, and notice the tone shift in his claim post and since then. It's like he just flipped a switch and the angry/frustrated Comm vanished and the reasonable Comm from that game appeared. It's similar to the shifts you would see in a Slayer's gambit and it corroborates Comm's claim of intentionally acting scummy.

@Beeboy, @Davesaz

Can you two give me your current reads?

Beeboy, you said you do better with direct engagement, so I'm going to try to work with you here.

Dave, you started out giving your reads early but then you've mostly just asked questions and haven't given much follow-up. I need to know where you stand and why.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: FrankJaeger

This guy needs rope, stat.

Ive reread the first 9 pages and crammed in the rest.
First reactions
Dont like Comm. I think he figured out what people wanted to see and adjusted. Doesnt look natural.

Ircher is bothering me along with Dave.

Fire is null/town. Hes definitely looks like hes scum hunting but quality over quantity

I need to iso shannon. Probably tomorrow.

GCs posts are towny.

Toe is null.

Bee is null.

Anyone i missed it null.

Ill be up for about 30 minutes to talk if anyone is around

So the first point against Comm here sets off some alarms for me. He says Comm saw what people wanted and adjusted? What? If there was any shift it would be what Ircher pointed out in Comm getting more aggressive and it was definitely NOT what people wanted. One thing Comm hasn't been in this game is a people pleaser. Frank is full of BS here. He doesn't bother to even explain what's bothering him about Ircher and Dave and never does.

Ive reread the first 9 pages and crammed in the rest.
First reactions
Dont like Comm. I think he figured out what people wanted to see and adjusted. Doesnt look natural.

Ircher is bothering me along with Dave.

Fire is null/town. Hes definitely looks like hes scum hunting but quality over quantity

I need to iso shannon. Probably tomorrow.

GCs posts are towny.

Toe is null.

Bee is null.

Anyone i missed it null.

Ill be up for about 30 minutes to talk if anyone is around

Care to elaborate on any of this when you're back?

Anything in particular?

It will be easier on a point by point basis because i mainly phone post

Ive reread the first 9 pages and crammed in the rest.
First reactions
Dont like Comm. I think he figured out what people wanted to see and adjusted. Doesnt look natural.

Ircher is bothering me along with Dave.

Fire is null/town. Hes definitely looks like hes scum hunting but quality over quantity

I need to iso shannon. Probably tomorrow.

GCs posts are towny.

Toe is null.

Bee is null.

Anyone i missed it null.

Ill be up for about 30 minutes to talk if anyone is around

Care to elaborate on any of this when you're back?

I need go back, but early game from you was essentially town reading people, which scum like to do. Your later posts actually do have some scum hunting.

Frank's first response to Dave doesn't seem weird on its own, but when coupled with this post it reeks. He still hasn't explained his other reads, and this line he gives Dave sounds like he's just trying to appease dave by changing the scumread to a Townread so he won't have to explain anymore.

If anyone can tell me why Commknight is scum in just a few lines, I'd appreciate it. I need to reread him.

For me its the subtle AtE and being super dramatic but not really having a relevant point.

Frank wasn't even voting Comm here. He still hadn't even moved his vote from where defnotmafia had it. Why is Frank giving his scumread on Comm when someone asks and still not committing to the vote? It's the only one he's even attempted at explaining so you'd think he'd back it up with a vote.

UNVOTE:
No point staying on a stale pressure vote. I need more from FrankJaeger to really sort the slot and I think it will come.

CommKnight is trying to appeal to his own authority as a reason for cases, instead of pressing the actual case. I really don't like that. (Pedit: I don't care what your rate is, though I suspect delusions of grandeur)

I can see a possible town reason for tojam to replace out.

??

More? Im waiting on you

When Dave asked for elaboration Frank gave him practically nothing. And here it seems like he's trying to flip it on Dave as to why he hasn't given more.

VOTE: ircher
Ide go here before alch

A prod dodge. That's what came from Ircher before this vote. Out of EVERYTHING ELSE that's happened in the game this is the grand moment that promped Frank to finally place a vote. And I STILL don't know why he's scumreading Ircher in the first place.

Between the half-assed not-really-explanations he gives, he just spouts out one-liners and never committs to anything. He's managed to stay off peoples' radar up to now and it's probably because he never had to do anything. He's not asking questions, he's not engaging, he's not offering any thoughts, he's not voting, he's not doing anything. There's been nothing good from Frank, nothing at all.

[shannon]

Even on reread Shannon's posts confuse me. Her posts come off as nooby and carefree that I'm really thinking "scum wouldn't play like this." Literally laughed reading back through when Shannon joined the Comm wagon again when Fire asked her.

Anyone still doubting Comm's claim? Someone said they were and I recommend that person and those who would agree look at Comm's ISO from Wertz and then read his ISO here, and notice the tone shift in his claim post and since then. It's like he just flipped a switch and the angry/frustrated Comm vanished and the reasonable Comm from that game appeared. It's similar to the shifts you would see in a Slayer's gambit and it corroborates Comm's claim of intentionally acting scummy.

My posts confuse myself at the moment. I think it's the combination of travel, multiple games where I've missed big swathes of posts, and there being so many subs. It's also normal for me to sound kind of derpy in games so I guess that's amplified the effect.

I forgot that Comm claimed it was a 1 shot something or other yeah?

Fixed broken tag. You're welcome.

[FireScreamer]

Frank is horifically lazy lynchbait as town Alchemist.

[FireScreamer]

At least in my experience with him

[FireScreamer]

Like I'll give him a fair look but the guy is made for day 1 lynches that flip green.

[shannon]

His name is Frank and that's my dog's name and I miss him, so no way am I voting Frank out x

[FireScreamer]

Shannon pls

[shannon]

If I knew how to post a photo I'd do it, he's a labrador and completely adorable. Labradorable, even.

[FireScreamer]

I have two German Shepard/Husky crosses. Dog walks are the best time to think about mafia games.

[shannon]

Ohhh what are their names? Do *you* know how to post photos?

We don't go walkies so much as to the dog park, and it's pretty full on. Frank is a bit of a swimmer and he's very popular among the regular dog park people so we get there and people are calling him over to play, it's very sweet.

[FireScreamer]

The girl is Elsa and the boy is Lupo. I didn't name them. They get walked down the beach or around the golf courses near me at night. I'll totally host some images and maybe see if there is a pet chat thread in GD when I get home.

[shannon]

No no, let's continue to derail this game with cute puppy talk.

Seriously though, if you think Frank is lynchbait then let's let him go another day. Dead scum is dead scum no matter what day it happens.

[FireScreamer]

Yeah i'm probably not up for lynching Frank today. We get almost no information from his flip. I'll ride him like a hellhound tomorrow to get him to engage but that ship has sailed today.

[FireScreamer]

Momo is dragging his feet on giving a catchup till its too late to lynch him. I didn't like the slot before the replacements and I certainly didn't like the replacements. Momo has done nothing since then.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Momo