Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[ThinkBig]

VC 1.13

Official Vote Count

Green Crayons

(3): Brian Skies, Titus, Narna

CommKnight

(3): Umlaut, RoryMK, FireScreamer

FireScreamer

(2): FrankJaeger, CommKnight

Titus

(1): davesaz

Brian Skies

(1): Green Crayons

FrankJaeger

(1): shannon

RoryMK

(1): Alchemist21

Not Voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-03 20:06:48)

[Green Crayons]

Omgus wall ewwww

I can summarize too, you know:

Brian said scary things to FS to scare FS into not defending himself and to think that Brian is pro-town.

Those scary things did not actually match the situation, and were a scare tactic.

When pressed on it, Brian tried to make it seem like he was engaged and others were being obstinate; like this was a really boring, in-the-weeds discussion, and that his play was no different than that of other players when they were really not anywhere nearly identical.

[Titus]

What's your read on FS?

[Green Crayons]

He's buddying me in his conversation with Brian, which I never like. I didn't see myself as defending FS, I saw myself as pointing out Brian's bad "bannable" line of convo, but FS's attempt to build that limited relationship between us into something more strikes me weird. Might be because of the re-roll nature of this particular game, though.

His play itself is mild town. He's pressed Comm on some things, which are generally okay-to-good points, but my Comm suspicions have mellowed so these aren't doing much for me any more. I do agree with Comm's observation that FS appears to be playing differently this game, which reflexively gives me pause, but I also strongly stand by my statement that that doesn't necessarily mean it's alignment indicative.

Brian's actions towards him makes me want to read him stronger town, but I know that's an associative read that needs waiting.

[Gamma Emerald]

Partly by the case from GC, and partly because I'm tired of being a sitting duck:
VOTE: Brian Skies

[CommKnight]

@GC, well consider this: FS hasn't really stated a good reads list of his own. Really only "questions" mine. If he flips red, I'd say because my reads might be correct. He's worried about being singled out by PoE. Not only that, but asking why I TR people constantly seems to be unsure scum who want to know why they aren't in my TR pile. If they were town, they'd create cases for me to examine why I SHOULDN'T TR someone. Not just telling me I shouldn't because herp derp, they told me so.

I'm comfortable with flipping FS today. You mix his play with his earlier statements of me not being able to lynch him, makes me want to see him lynched all the more just to show his cockiness as scum doesn't work when up against me. When you're in my sights, you're going to either claim or be lynched eventually. No way around it for him now.

[Alchemist21]

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Kinda agree with this. Hard to say if he's just like this on early D1 though.

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Is there a reason you still haven't moved your RVS vote if you think that's true?

Do you have any other reads?

It also feels like he tried to turn it around on Frank here.

VOTE: Rory

Can you explain where I went wrong by asking Frank 2 questions in an attempt to get him involved?

It looks like you're trying to discredit his point against you by challenging his lack of vote.

How am I discrediting his point? I ask him if he has a reason not to move his RVS vote and followup by asking if he has other reads.
Maybe he has a scumread on that player now, and didn't mention it.

It looks like the message you were sending was "if you really thought that you would vote me," and I see that as a subtle discredit attempt.

[Alchemist21]

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon? Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

First: That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Second: Maybe you should read my posts. You can join the Brian train of asking questions that already have answers, but I'm not going to repeat myself for you ad naseum, either.

Third: "Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did." Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

You didn't call her out on lack or reasoning, you called her out on joining a wagon before you did. You didn't engage her on that vote. Your suspicion stems from her taking an early spot on a wagon that you think looks good for scum and being upset that you didn't get it. That's the point I'm making.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Green Crayons

[Alchemist21]

Who are you talking to?
I know what I'm using for a name if me and Brian hydra tho

Really wanna know what this name would be though.

[Umlaut]

I'm pretty sympathetic to the GC wagon but I'd still rather attract more attention to Comm, given how badly he buckled under that pressure as scum last time.

Alchemist, what are your independent feelings on FireScreamer? I still think he's town, but I'm much more conflicted on that read than I was last game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who are you talking to?
I know what I'm using for a name if me and Brian hydra tho

Really wanna know what this name would be though.

Gamma Skies, OBVIOUSLY

[Alchemist21]

I'm pretty sympathetic to the GC wagon but I'd still rather attract more attention to Comm, given how badly he buckled under that pressure as scum last time.

Alchemist, what are your independent feelings on FireScreamer? I still think he's town, but I'm much more conflicted on that read than I was last game.

idk in the last game Comm pulled it together enough to make me think his earlier actions were an intentional Town gambit so I can't say for sure he'd buckle under pressure.

I'm feeling about the same on FS. It's still a mild Townread and I'm not putting him at lock-clear Town like I did last game. There's a part of me that wants to say he was modspewed Town but the better half of me is saying mod could have done that for scum too.

Who are you talking to?
I know what I'm using for a name if me and Brian hydra tho

Really wanna know what this name would be though.

Gamma Skies, OBVIOUSLY

That's what I thought but didn't get the joke and thought there might have been another name.

[Umlaut]

There's a part of me that wants to say he was modspewed Town but the better half of me is saying mod could have done that for scum too.

I know ThinkBig alerted me (the mod) when a player claimed scum with a partner in another game, even though he knew that player was town, on the basis that it would have been gamethrowing if that player were telling the truth. So he understands the need to take the same action regardless of actual alignment. I'm not 100% sure this is the same thing since FS never actually claimed to be using a trust tell.

[Gamma Emerald]

There's a part of me that wants to say he was modspewed Town but the better half of me is saying mod could have done that for scum too.

I know ThinkBig alerted me (the mod) when a player claimed scum with a partner in another game, even though he knew that player was town, on the basis that it would have been gamethrowing if that player were telling the truth. So he understands the need to take the same action regardless of actual alignment. I'm not 100% sure this is the same thing since FS never actually claimed to be using a trust tell.

I remember that

[Alchemist21]

There's a part of me that wants to say he was modspewed Town but the better half of me is saying mod could have done that for scum too.

I know ThinkBig alerted me (the mod) when a player claimed scum with a partner in another game, even though he knew that player was town, on the basis that it would have been gamethrowing if that player were telling the truth. So he understands the need to take the same action regardless of actual alignment. I'm not 100% sure this is the same thing since FS never actually claimed to be using a trust tell.

If the mod thought it was a possibility then it's the same thing. Good to know the mod treats the factions equally on these matters.

[Green Crayons]

@Comm:

@GC, well consider this: FS hasn't really stated a good reads list of his own. Really only "questions" mine. If he flips red, I'd say because my reads might be correct. He's worried about being singled out by PoE. Not only that, but asking why I TR people constantly seems to be unsure scum who want to know why they aren't in my TR pile. If they were town, they'd create cases for me to examine why I SHOULDN'T TR someone. Not just telling me I shouldn't because herp derp, they told me so.

Is your POE theory just because he doesn't like your "I'm not voting the previous scum team D1" stance?

Criticizing town reads is not alignment indicative, unless if that's the only thing that player is doing.

[Green Crayons]

Alchemist:

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon? Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

First: That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Second: Maybe you should read my posts. You can join the Brian train of asking questions that already have answers, but I'm not going to repeat myself for you ad naseum, either.

Third: "Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did." Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

You didn't call her out on lack or reasoning, you called her out on joining a wagon before you did. You didn't engage her on that vote. Your suspicion stems from her taking an early spot on a wagon that you think looks good for scum and being upset that you didn't get it. That's the point I'm making.

Okay? No shit? Because I didn't suspect Titus for her lack of reasoning?

Do you know where suspicion about Titus's "lack of reasoning" has originated? From Alchemist. In Post 425. My suspicions were her sudden jump onto the shannon wagon, which was right when my attention was being drawn to shannon via other players' questioning. Don't foist your suspicions of Titus onto me, and then say it's suspicious that I didn't voice your suspicions when they weren't mine.

[Green Crayons]

idk in the last game Comm pulled it together enough to make me think his earlier actions were an intentional Town gambit so I can't say for sure he'd buckle under pressure.

Also agreed on this, except he still put out some pretty suspicious positions that I handwaved away. So sustained pressure is not probably not necessary and a skeptical eye will suffice.

That said,

I'm pretty sympathetic to the GC wagon

This is a bad alternative and you should feel bad.

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist:

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon? Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

First: That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Second: Maybe you should read my posts. You can join the Brian train of asking questions that already have answers, but I'm not going to repeat myself for you ad naseum, either.

Third: "Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did." Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

You didn't call her out on lack or reasoning, you called her out on joining a wagon before you did. You didn't engage her on that vote. Your suspicion stems from her taking an early spot on a wagon that you think looks good for scum and being upset that you didn't get it. That's the point I'm making.

Okay? No shit? Because I didn't suspect Titus for her lack of reasoning?

Do you know where suspicion about Titus's "lack of reasoning" has originated? From Alchemist. In Post 425. My suspicions were her sudden jump onto the shannon wagon, which was right when my attention was being drawn to shannon via other players' questioning. Don't foist your suspicions of Titus onto me, and then say it's suspicious that I didn't voice your suspicions when they weren't mine.

Exactly. Your third point was to assert that you engage with other players to find out their reasoning, but since you didn't do that with Titus on her Shannon vote I take it you didn't care if she had reasons or not. You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

And I never once said I found Titus suspicious, and to claim that I'm projecting my suspicions of her onto your posts is misrep (and it feels like I'm complimenting your blatant falsehoods by giving it that much praise).

GC can hang today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why alchemist

[Green Crayons]

lol

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon?

Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Third:

"Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did."

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

"My" third point was responding to YOUR suspicion YOU created in 425. Are you being intellectually lazy or just arguing in bad faith?

I didn't do anything with Titus because she ignored me entirely when I tried to get her attention on shannon.

You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

lolol

[Green Crayons]

Like, in Post 154 I'm not going to try to engage Titus on Suspicion A that Alchemist comes up with in Post 425 when I'm trying to engage her on Suspicion B that I was actually contemplating at the time I made Post 154.

[Alchemist21]

lol

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon?

Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Third:

"Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did."

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

"My" third point was responding to YOUR suspicion YOU created in 425. Are you being intellectually lazy or just arguing in bad faith?

I didn't do anything with Titus because she ignored me entirely when I tried to get her attention on shannon.

You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

lolol

Maybe Titus has suspicions [about Shannon] too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Does that make it easier for you or do you still want to misrep me?

[Green Crayons]

That doesn't clarify anything.