Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[Brian Skies]

Well, there are more people sheeping me or claiming to sympathize with me, so...?

Titus who is whatever
Narna is whatever
Alchemist is suspicious because his reasons are rivaling your scare tactic, plus he's in GOLDEN SPOT NO. 4

Umlaut has also claimed he thinks I'm town. As well as Rory (although Rory does it in a very shady manner).

You have...FS and GS?

'What do you think about the people tepidly agreeing with me?'
'More people seem to agree with me?'
'Yeah, but your people don't count.'

???

[Brian Skies]

"Guys, don't listen to this guy. He just doesn't know me or how I think, so he clearly can't be right."

Ah yes. This is definitely my case. Mhm, mhm.

If

your

case is "GC is obtuse and belligerent when people suspect him," you're the one who is lacking.

My case is you making a comment to make it look like you're busy or interested town when you're not. You've since grasped for straws and tried to dress it up into more than it really is. You've also belligerently stood by your claim that your 'inconsistency' has any weight, when I've already shown you that you're just blatantly disregarding what I've said and don't really care about understanding anything.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Brian
I'm voting you, whadaya think?

[Alchemist21]

"Guys, don't listen to this guy. He just doesn't know me or how I think, so he clearly can't be right."

Ah yes. This is definitely my case. Mhm, mhm.

If

your

case is "GC is obtuse and belligerent when people suspect him," you're the one who is lacking.

My case is you making a comment to make it look like you're busy or interested town when you're not. You've since grasped for straws and tried to dress it up into more than it really is. You've also belligerently stood by your claim that your 'inconsistency' has any weight, when I've already shown you that you're just blatantly disregarding what I've said and don't really care about understanding anything.

He did this with the thing I was arguing with him about too.

[CommKnight]

I'm pretty sympathetic to the GC wagon but I'd still rather attract more attention to Comm, given how badly he buckled under that pressure as scum last time.

Alchemist, what are your independent feelings on FireScreamer? I still think he's town, but I'm much more conflicted on that read than I was last game.

You really are bad at reading me if you thought I "buckled under pressure".

@GC, PoE by TR'ing others. He is left in a pool that I don't TR (or right now I'm even SR'ing). Which as scum, that would not leave much room to wiggle. When I'm pretty much the only one posting full read lists at the moment, scum!FireScreamer could be seeing it as himself being cornered a bit and after comments last game about what happens when a scum gets in my crosshairs.. He could be worried. Especially if he read any of my past games. Now this is just a theory. But it's a possibility that he is worried that if I gain the town cred he says I don't have, that he will be facing the chopping block if people don't believe whatever he claims.

VOTE: GC - This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

[ThinkBig]

VC 1.15

Official Vote Count

Green Crayons

(5): Brian Skies, Titus, Narna, Alchemist21, CommKnight

CommKnight

(3): Umlaut, RoryMK, FireScreamer

Brian Skies

(2): Green Crayons, Gamma Emerald

FrankJaeger

(1): shannon

Titus

(1): davesaz

FireScreamer

(1): FrankJaeger

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-03 20:06:48)

[CommKnight]

Green Crayons

(5): Brian Skies, Titus, Narna, Alchemist21, CommKnight

@Mod

: So uh... what's up with the "right" arrow there TB?

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess it means the wagon is close to hammer

[ThinkBig]

I guess it means the wagon is close to hammer

This

[davesaz]

This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

You don't think game progress is possible without a claim?

What do you think about the various cases that are currently being pushed?

[Alchemist21]

This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

That's like the worst reason to vote someone. wtf

[Gamma Emerald]

Let me rephrase:
Brian, you said that GC's logic was scum logic, and I voted based on it. Do you think I'm Mafia?

[CommKnight]

This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

That's like the worst reason to vote someone. wtf

Not when my TR's are on him and they aren't gonna help me focus on FS unless we get something from GC. So obviously I gotta apply pressure to one of my own TR's in hopes we can move onto someone I'm SR'ing.

[davesaz]

{Gamma Emerald}
{Green Crayons, Alchemist21, Umlaut, FireScreamer}
{Narna, RoryMK, FrankJaeger, shannon}
{Brian Skies, CommKnight}
{Titus}

[Titus]

I'll read this tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

@GC, PoE by TR'ing others. He is left in a pool that I don't TR (or right now I'm even SR'ing). Which as scum, that would not leave much room to wiggle. When I'm pretty much the only one posting full read lists at the moment, scum!FireScreamer could be seeing it as himself being cornered a bit and after comments last game about what happens when a scum gets in my crosshairs.. He could be worried. Especially if he read any of my past games. Now this is just a theory. But it's a possibility that he is worried that if I gain the town cred he says I don't have, that he will be facing the chopping block if people don't believe whatever he claims.

VOTE: GC - This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

1. Get over yourself, no one is worried about getting in your crosshairs.
   
2. Voting a townread less than halfway through the day as "a pressure vote for claim" is completely ridiculous.
   
3. Why do you want a claim from GC anyway?
   
4. 90% of this quote is self-aggrandizement and self-explanation. You could have cut it down to "VOTE: GC - I'd like a claim from him" and been just as informative. What are you hoping to accomplish with all the fluff?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: CommKnight

[Brian Skies]

Yo Brian
I'm voting you, whadaya think?

Let me rephrase:
Brian, you said that GC's logic was scum logic, and I voted based on it. Do you think I'm Mafia?

I'm kinda SRing Brian rn, for his pushing the not-trust tell. Seems like he was trying to get a player out of the way.

Other than that, I'm not really sure why you're voting me. And it's not like there's a train of thought to go with you agreeing with Green Crayon's wild suspicion. It's also not related to what I called scum logic, so why are you asking me this?

[shannon]

I've read the last five pages but not in huge detail. I intend to re-read the whole game either tonight or tomorrow - it's a public hol here Tuesday, hooray. If anyone has anything they particularly want to draw my attention to, please say so.

Growlithe can't even learn growl what a shitter.

Growlithe is my second fave pokemon, please no smack talking about him or I will be forced to lynch you.

@GC, well consider this: FS hasn't really stated a good reads list of his own. Really only "questions" mine. If he flips red, I'd say because my reads might be correct. He's worried about being singled out by PoE. Not only that, but asking why I TR people constantly seems to be unsure scum who want to know why they aren't in my TR pile. If they were town, they'd create cases for me to examine why I SHOULDN'T TR someone. Not just telling me I shouldn't because herp derp, they told me so.

I'm comfortable with flipping FS today. You mix his play with his earlier statements of me not being able to lynch him, makes me want to see him lynched all the more just to show his cockiness as scum doesn't work when up against me. When you're in my sights, you're going to either claim or be lynched eventually. No way around it for him now.

I haven't looked in detail at what you're referring to here, but it does seem like a different FS from last game where he was kinda power town. Remember that 'being scum' is not the only possible explanation for a shift in style like that. I think we should leave FS for today, and see what shakes out tomorrow or when we get to claiming. I just have a feeling about this. (I know, feelings aren't reasons but this is where I'm at).

Also, some players just don't give reads lists until they're more sure of things, I don't know whether FS is particularly one of them but for me that's not hugely AI this early.

I found Titus's timing suspicious, and wanted to engage Titus on the timing of her vote.

You came up with Titus failing to articulate any suspicions as scummy, and you are faulting me for failing to engage Titus on not articulating suspicions.

So, whatever.

LOL I never said it was scummy.

The whole fucking point is that you voted her for voting Shannon (a vote you wanted) before you did

.

And I'm saying that she could have found Shannon suspicious as well, and just went ahead and voted Shannon instead of waiting on it.

Seriously, GC can hang today.

I think TownTitus calls someone out for exactly what you're saying she's done herself. Like say, if I'd seen someone make a case on you, and jumped in and voted you without explanation, she'd be first on my case for the opportunistic voting. Does ScumTitus make this mistake herself? I don't know, I've never seen scum Titus, but it doesn't immediately sound like TownTitus to me.

I never said and never mean to imply that Alchemist is suspicious of Titus.

What did happen is Alchemist created a suspicion -- Titus failed to articulate the reason for her shannon vote -- and then faulted me for failing to have adopted THAT suspicious and try to press titus for THAT suspicious rather than for the suspicion I actually had at the time.

Which is PRET-TEE hilariously bad.

This sentence makes my head hurt.

Well, there are more people sheeping me or claiming to sympathize with me, so...?

Titus who is whatever
Narna is whatever
Alchemist is suspicious because his reasons are rivaling your scare tactic, plus he's in GOLDEN SPOT NO. 4

Umlaut has also claimed he thinks I'm town. As well as Rory (although Rory does it in a very shady manner).

You have...FS and GS?

'What do you think about the people tepidly agreeing with me?'
'More people seem to agree with me?'
'Yeah, but your people don't count.'

???

This appeal to authority does not sit well with me.

[Brian Skies]

This appeal to authority does not sit well with me.

Well, I'm not really appealing to anything. Green Crayons asked me what I thought about other people agreeing with him, which I assumed was an appeal to numbers or something, except there are more people agreeing with me. If this isn't what he was going for, then I have no idea.

[shannon]

@Comm I don't like your pressure vote for claim on someone you town read.

If you are sure in your read, you're risking outing a PR and having the whole thing go to shit.

VOTE: Comm

[Brian Skies]

He did this with the thing I was arguing with him about too.

Spoiler:

Also, why'd Titus have to jump in front of my shannon vote?

I very obviously telegraphed it.

It's coming. Just you wait.

What. Is. This? Me no like this post.

GC, can you explain why you posted this?

Which part?

I telegraphed the beginning of my shannon suspicions in Post 132.

Titus jumped in before the shannon votes started rolling in.

Jumping in before a wagon gets rolling but when the groundwork for votes is being laid is suspicious, because it puts scum not at the golden spot of 3/4s of the way through.

Also pretty sure I never actually voted shannon but I was thinking about doing it back in the 100s-200s or whenever that line of discussion went down.

Alchemist:

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon? Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

First: That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Second: Maybe you should read my posts. You can join the Brian train of asking questions that already have answers, but I'm not going to repeat myself for you ad naseum, either.

Third: "Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did." Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

You didn't call her out on lack or reasoning, you called her out on joining a wagon before you did. You didn't engage her on that vote. Your suspicion stems from her taking an early spot on a wagon that you think looks good for scum and being upset that you didn't get it. That's the point I'm making.

Okay? No shit? Because I didn't suspect Titus for her lack of reasoning?

Do you know where suspicion about Titus's "lack of reasoning" has originated? From Alchemist. In Post 425. My suspicions were her sudden jump onto the shannon wagon, which was right when my attention was being drawn to shannon via other players' questioning. Don't foist your suspicions of Titus onto me, and then say it's suspicious that I didn't voice your suspicions when they weren't mine.

Exactly. Your third point was to assert that you engage with other players to find out their reasoning, but since you didn't do that with Titus on her Shannon vote I take it you didn't care if she had reasons or not. You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

And I never once said I found Titus suspicious, and to claim that I'm projecting my suspicions of her onto your posts is misrep (and it feels like I'm complimenting your blatant falsehoods by giving it that much praise).

GC can hang today.

lol

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon?

Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Third:

"Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did."

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

"My" third point was responding to YOUR suspicion YOU created in 425. Are you being intellectually lazy or just arguing in bad faith?

I didn't do anything with Titus because she ignored me entirely when I tried to get her attention on shannon.

You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

lolol

Like, in Post 154 I'm not going to try to engage Titus on Suspicion A that Alchemist comes up with in Post 425 when I'm trying to engage her on Suspicion B that I was actually contemplating at the time I made Post 154.

lol

132 doesn't even look like you're expressing suspicion.

Second, if you had already found Shannon suspicious, what makes it suspicious of Titus to be voting for Shannon?

Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Third:

"Maybe Titus has suspicions too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did."

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe not. That's the whole point in engaging with another player. To figure these things out. So, what point are you trying to make?

"My" third point was responding to YOUR suspicion YOU created in 425. Are you being intellectually lazy or just arguing in bad faith?

I didn't do anything with Titus because she ignored me entirely when I tried to get her attention on shannon.

You're seriously just sore that she took the spot on the wagon you wanted.

lolol

Maybe Titus has suspicions [about Shannon] too and didn't hesitate to vote like you did.

Does that make it easier for you or do you still want to misrep me?

That doesn't clarify anything.

Also, why'd Titus have to jump in front of my shannon vote?

I very obviously telegraphed it.

It's coming. Just you wait.

And you're going to actually try telling us any of this post was expressing suspicion on Titus and attempting to engage her? Rather than you just being sore she voted Shannon before you did?

I found Titus's timing suspicious, and wanted to engage Titus on the timing of her vote.

You came up with Titus failing to articulate any suspicions as scummy, and you are faulting me for failing to engage Titus on not articulating suspicions.

So, whatever.

That doesn't clarify anything.

lol

Seriously, GC can hang today.

I found Titus's timing suspicious, and wanted to engage Titus on the timing of her vote.

You came up with Titus failing to articulate any suspicions as scummy, and you are faulting me for failing to engage Titus on not articulating suspicions.

So, whatever.

LOL I never said it was scummy.

The whole fucking point is that you voted her for voting Shannon (a vote you wanted) before you did. And I'm saying that she could have found Shannon suspicious as well, and just went ahead and voted Shannon instead of waiting on it.

Seriously, GC can hang today.

Also, why'd Titus have to jump in front of my shannon vote?

I very obviously telegraphed it.

It's coming. Just you wait.

And you're going to actually try telling us any of this post was expressing suspicion on Titus and attempting to engage her? Rather than you just being sore she voted Shannon before you did?

Hey oh. Look at this guy. Oh you're good.

Was that saying "Titus is suspicious for the timing of her vote"? No. Was it intended to? No. Did I ever say it was? No. (That you are now saying I was is... wait for it... a misrep.)

Because I don't always go "Hey this is suspicious Player X for Reasons Y." I first try to engage the player and see how they react and what they actually say. And then if there's something there, I make a case (e.g., Brian). If not, then I don't.

Usually, Alchemist -- and this might be a little bit weird to you -- but when someone mentions Player's X name, Player X will have the curiosity piqued and will respond. That's sort of how this game works.

I found Titus's timing suspicious, and wanted to engage Titus on the timing of her vote.

You came up with Titus failing to articulate any suspicions as scummy, and you are faulting me for failing to engage Titus on not articulating suspicions.

So, whatever.

LOL I never said it was scummy.

The whole fucking point is that you voted her for voting Shannon (a vote you wanted) before you did. And I'm saying that she could have found Shannon suspicious as well, and just went ahead and voted Shannon instead of waiting on it.

Seriously, GC can hang today.

lololol

I never voted Titus you dolt.

I don't give a crap about Titus.

She's a nonentity D1.

The whole reason why this post is even being talked about is because Gamma brought it up and asked about it.

lololol you're bad

I never said and never mean to imply that Alchemist is suspicious of Titus.

What did happen is Alchemist created a suspicion -- Titus failed to articulate the reason for her shannon vote -- and then faulted me for failing to have adopted THAT suspicious and try to press titus for THAT suspicious rather than for the suspicion I actually had at the time.

Which is PRET-TEE hilariously bad.

Also, why'd Titus have to jump in front of my shannon vote?

I very obviously telegraphed it.

It's coming. Just you wait.

What. Is. This? Me no like this post.

GC, can you explain why you posted this?

Which part?

I telegraphed the beginning of my shannon suspicions in Post 132.

Titus jumped in before the shannon votes started rolling in.

Jumping in before a wagon gets rolling but when the groundwork for votes is being laid is suspicious, because it puts scum not at the golden spot of 3/4s of the way through.

Never said 154 is expressing suspicion on Titus huh?

and then faulted me for failing to have adopted THAT suspicious and try to press titus for THAT suspicious rather than for the suspicion I actually had at the time.

Again I never faulted you for not thinking that was suspicious. The fault is that you didn't care enough to consider Titus could just be Town also scumreading Shannon.

Haha.


That doesn't say I was expressing suspicion of Titus in 154.


I was explaining why I was trying to engage Titus.

The fault is that you didn't care enough to consider Titus could just be Town also scumreading Shannon.

Oh yes. I definitely had Titus completely slotted as scum.

That's totally why I tried to get her to respond to me about her shannon vote and then when she didn't I just let it go because it wasn't worth pursuing.

Completely in line with failing to consider Titus could just be town. Yup. That makes

absolutely no sense.

I know you can do a better job at trying to engage people than 154; don't even try to sell us on that point.

Oh yes. Have we reached the bottom of the barrel already?

"GC I know you can do better than this. GC I know you're smarter than this."

It only too me three words to engage Brian:

It's not punishable to just say 'I would never do this as scum.'

What FS is saying is that he cannot be scum here because he did something only a town him would do

These are literally saying the same thing. "never scum" = "only town".

No, they aren't.

Are you really going to nitpick over me explaining what a trust tell is?

Post 154 is overwrought in comparison.

Just because he did respond doesn't mean you were trying to get him to respond.

Just because he did respond doesn't mean you were trying to get him to respond.

Okay, Alchemist. This is a great argument you've boiled down your position to.

GC seems to be trying to engage Titus. Also, apologies for causing this trouble, since I noticed GC stated this happened because of my questioning.

Don't apologize. He's trying to pass of 154 as things that it simply wasn't.

I can kind of see what you mean if you just don't agree with his idea of 'engaging' another player, but everything else just feels like you putting words into his mouth.

[Brian Skies]

He did this with the thing I was arguing with him about too.

I can kind of see what you mean if you just don't agree with his idea of 'engaging' another player,

but everything else just feels like you putting words into his mouth.

I actually just think you two are talking past each other. At first I thought you pulled the Titus thing out of thin air, but now I'm pretty sure Green Crayons just has issues with reading comprehension and strawmanned you. Is it scum? I have no idea.

[Narna]

CK did you come from tos?

wtf whyb Brain you changing votes?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: GC - This is a pressure vote for claim. I think GC is town still, but I do think it'd help progress this along to get his claim and push FS if it's believable.

Because this is beyond bad.