Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[WhemeStar]

One was so confident in his role that he wouldn't be lynched. NF just claimed VT. Like really?

[Shaziro]

Votecount 4.7

Votes

Not_Mafia (2)

- Titus, WhemeStar,

GuyInFreezer (1)

- Kop,

Not Voting

:
IAlwaysWinSometimes, implosion, MathBlade, Not_Mafia, GuyInFreezer,

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

(expired on 2017-05-02 17:38:30)

[GuyInFreezer]

Hmm isnt that one slot the one I said I liked?

[GuyInFreezer]

Like, the first instinct I get from this whole situation is "lynchbait"

[implosion]

Several things to say in the wake of probably yet another replacement...

1, the more I think about it, the more I think the way Mathblade has pushed me+Titus feels manufactured. From my understanding, they initially thought scum were in Kop/One/me, then saw horrordude's alleged scumslip and started tunneling titus and me.

Somehow, they went from scumreads on me and kop and one to being so confident that it's Titus+me so as to declare everyone else town by PoE. The way they're talking, to me, implies that they are confident in the reads of me/titus as the scumteam. They never really explained why they were wrong about kop, or one; the points in favor of them being scum were entirely dropped on the floor in favor of pursuing me/titus. I can sort of understand that for the titus slot, because of the scumslip thing (which I also think is probably disingenuous for other reasons, which I'll get to later) but I see no logical reason why mathblade should be tunneling me so far when they seemingly had solid scumreads on two other slots. I see no reason to have so much confidence in those reads when you were viewing so many different slots as having scumtold early. It feels to me like scum who is pushing whatever is most convenient. Math says that they see one as lynchbait right now and see kop as my other likely scumbuddy after titus, and that they don't understand the case on oneironaut, despite having found numerous posts from hans that they disliked (tangent: 1907 implies that mathblade knows that oneironaut=superhans, but 1963 which came afterwards implied that they didnt? It's theoretically possible that this is a scumslip but it's not really worth looking into deeply.)

Essentially, it makes sense to fos me over one/kop, but I don't see the progression to saying one is clearly lynchbait based on how math has looked at the game. They just seem more confident in their reads than they should given how many things they've called scummy. It doesn't seem consistent.

The horrordude scumslip thing just seems like a really stupid thing to get hung up on. Both of the scumslips that Mathblade pushes just look like really blatantly non-indicative things to me. Horror's rage about the upcoming mislynch is a normal thing that townies do; they talk as if their reads are right. It's essentially just omitting the "i might be wrong but" clause. It's not atypical. The titus replace out request just makes no sense to me to push as a scumslip. Like seriously, I see absolutely no reason why titus can't be doing that as angry town. I honestly find it difficult to believe that MathBlade is so convinced that Titus wouldn't make that replace out request as town so as to call it a scumslip; it feels like inflammatory rhetoric that isn't focused on finding scum and is instead focused on getting as many mislynch candidates into the pool as possible.

Those are my current thoughts on MathBlade; I can give more in-depth reasoning on why oneironaut is scum if it's really desired and probably will, possibly right now.

[implosion]

So, superhans/oneironaut/notmafia.

To me, reason number one that this slot is scum is still and has always been nightkills. Why does scum kill boon then stone cold? As I've said, this point is more valid from my own point of view, because Stone Cold was pseudo tunneling myself along with superhans, but that doesn't apply to the boon kill. I really think scum don't make both of those kills if oneironaut is scum; neither of those slots showed any indication that they were slowing down in their pressure on superhans, and i think in practice in today's meta scum don't generally kill just to frame. They kill players who are active and/or who have good reads, or occasionally PR reads. Killing Stone Cold in particular I think makes almost no sense fmpov if hans was town; why kill a slot that's being active enough that I highly doubt it was a PR read, that was strongly pushing two town slots as its primary suspects? Makes no sense at all. But again, that point relies on me being town, so it's not as useful from others' point of view unless they have a townread on me.

Number two is the claim. I feel like I shouldn't need to spell this out so plainly in a game where people (read: twoface and eddie) have been tunneling left and right based on "lies" that were meaningless. But this is not a meaningless lie. There is absolutely NO town motivation for softclaiming a power role in the situation oneironaut was in as a vanilla townie. Zero. It is only explainable as flatly terrible play, more terrible than I think I'm willing to accept as being even vaguely likely. Oneironaut was under a TON of pressure. If he's town, he knows he's going to get grilled after softclaiming. Almost certainly, he thought that he was going down and was looking for some out, any out, and so he softclaimed in the hopes that people would buy it. NM then claimed vt because he didn't know that his slot had softclaimed earlier.

Number three, superhans was a scummy slot. I think like everyone agrees on this so I'm not going to ISO him again.

Number four, oneironaut's play was scummy. I criticized his early posting (and made the NK argument that I just rehashed) here. After that, he starts an entirely semantic argument with twoface, an extremely easy avenue to take as scum, because it's an argument that lets you be correct in a meaningless (non-alignment-indicative) way. Actually a lot of the rest of his iso pings slightly town or mostly null to me (the way he talks to twoface late). But I think the negatives somewhat outweigh the positives.

[implosion]

honestly.

I feel like there are so many slots in this game that i haven't been able to meaningfully interact with enough, either because of inactivity and replacements (kop, oneironaut) or because of abrasiveness (twoface, eddie to a degree, fitz although he's dead) that i don't feel as confident as I think I should.

I do have some doubts about the oneironaut slot. They're more concrete things than "the slot looks like mislynch bait," which is a really stupid standalone reason to call a slot town. But I think the reasons to think that slot is scum are too severe to ignore.

[MathBlade]

One was so confident in his role that he wouldn't be lynched. NF just claimed VT. Like really?

Where do you get role from that? I get arrogance.

Scum better kill me unless they can lynch me.

I see arrogance not role crumbs.

[MathBlade]

Several things to say in the wake of probably yet another replacement...

1, the more I think about it, the more I think the way Mathblade has pushed me+Titus feels manufactured. From my understanding, they initially thought scum were in Kop/One/me, then saw horrordude's alleged scumslip and started tunneling titus and me.

Somehow, they went from scumreads on me and kop and one to being so confident that it's Titus+me so as to declare everyone else town by PoE. The way they're talking, to me, implies that they are confident in the reads of me/titus as the scumteam. They never really explained why they were wrong about kop, or one; the points in favor of them being scum were entirely dropped on the floor in favor of pursuing me/titus. I can sort of understand that for the titus slot, because of the scumslip thing (which I also think is probably disingenuous for other reasons, which I'll get to later) but I see no logical reason why mathblade should be tunneling me so far when they seemingly had solid scumreads on two other slots. I see no reason to have so much confidence in those reads when you were viewing so many different slots as having scumtold early. It feels to me like scum who is pushing whatever is most convenient. Math says that they see one as lynchbait right now and see kop as my other likely scumbuddy after titus, and that they don't understand the case on oneironaut, despite having found numerous posts from hans that they disliked (tangent: 1907 implies that mathblade knows that oneironaut=superhans, but 1963 which came afterwards implied that they didnt? It's theoretically possible that this is a scumslip but it's not really worth looking into deeply.)

Essentially, it makes sense to fos me over one/kop, but I don't see the progression to saying one is clearly lynchbait based on how math has looked at the game. They just seem more confident in their reads than they should given how many things they've called scummy. It doesn't seem consistent.

The horrordude scumslip thing just seems like a really stupid thing to get hung up on. Both of the scumslips that Mathblade pushes just look like really blatantly non-indicative things to me. Horror's rage about the upcoming mislynch is a normal thing that townies do; they talk as if their reads are right. It's essentially just omitting the "i might be wrong but" clause. It's not atypical. The titus replace out request just makes no sense to me to push as a scumslip. Like seriously, I see absolutely no reason why titus can't be doing that as angry town. I honestly find it difficult to believe that MathBlade is so convinced that Titus wouldn't make that replace out request as town so as to call it a scumslip; it feels like inflammatory rhetoric that isn't focused on finding scum and is instead focused on getting as many mislynch candidates into the pool as possible.

Those are my current thoughts on MathBlade; I can give more in-depth reasoning on why oneironaut is scum if it's really desired and probably will, possibly right now.

That isn't what I pushed as a scumslip and this is why you are scum.

The scumslip was Horror knowing CoolDog would flip Town.

[MathBlade]

The replace out request IMHO was strategic til she rescinded it. That can be done as both alignments.

That is a hell of a lot of words for bullshit.

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

ugh kop isn't talking at all.

[implosion]

The scumslip was Horror knowing CoolDog would flip Town.

this is what i was referring to...

[MathBlade]

The titus replace out request just makes no sense to me to push as a scumslip. << It read to me that you're pushing that I pushed the Titus replace out request as a scumslip which is untrue. Your words not mine.

[Shaziro]

Replacing Kop for third prod unless he returns before a replacement is found. Sorry this took so long, finals week is a-comin' and stuff has gotten heavy around here!

[implosion]

Ah. I misunderstood you earlier; i thought you were calling both her and her predecessor out for scumslips since you said that she scumslipped. This is why I referred to "both" of the scumslips you pushed. You'll notice I also talked about the horrordude slip:

Horror's rage about the upcoming mislynch is a normal thing that townies do; they talk as if their reads are right. It's essentially just omitting the "i might be wrong but" clause. It's not atypical.

Actually, looking more closely at the post you quoted:

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore.

serious question. in what way do you feel 2f was leading town?

"anymore" shouldn't have been included. He doesn't get to say who the lynch is if he spends all of Day 1 on a death tunnel of a townie.

How did horror know Cooldog is town when the role PM flipped after this point?

Titus ideas stranger?

he literally in the previous quote in this quote pyramid said "if you are wrong about cooldog"
this is like the dumbest thing to push

[implosion]

literally the "if he spends all day 1 on a death tunnel of a townie" there is predicated on the if in the previous sentence he said

[MathBlade]

..It implies "Hey I know CoolDog is town. You as Town can't be in control of this game" With how TwoFace obvTowned I am surprised Titus is still alive.

[implosion]

no, it doesn't. He originally said "If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore." He then amended that sentence to remove the "anymore," and that sentence already included a clause conditional on cooldog being town.

Semantically that simply does not imply what you're saying it implies. It certainly implies that horrordude strongly thought that cooldog was town... which he was in fact claiming to think.

[Kop]

I'm a VT.

[MathBlade]

"Death tunnel of a townie" << No thinking there. It is horror setting up future blame.

@Kop post words please.

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

Implosion, role?

[implosion]

VT.

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

Math, role?

[MathBlade]

VT out with friends. Won't be on much today.

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

Freezer, role?