I'd rather not have day talk as a percentage thing in newbies. Make it 100 percent or none at all. Or use the Normal queue's "daytalk in the rules" concept.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 175, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'd rather not have day talk as a percentage thing in newbies. Make it 100 percent or none at all. Or use the Normal queue's "daytalk in the rules" concept.
Why's that?
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
Replacing it with a Mafia Doctor (to mess with Tracker results and muddle clears) would be better IMHO.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
Goon Doctor Tracker would certainly not be balanced.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
In post 158, RadiantCowbells wrote:It gets rid of the potential for a safe way to claim a protected tracker and therefore neuters the bulletproof claim strategy. It may still happen but since we're no longer dealing with single PR setups it no longer advantages town.
Actually, it kinda does, in that it allows a PR to claim, informs the other PR what build it is (cop will know there is no doctor, jk there's no investigative - and will likely jail bp until it dies!), and requires scum to waste at least one night (maybe more if there's a jk) giving up their kill if they want to kill the bp, otherwise that player is confirmed town without a cc.
BP is crap in newbie games without a strongman.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
In post 184, Alisae wrote:Grey newbies don't need that kind of moonlogicy stuff just to fuck with results.
Removing tracker results as clears is not moonlogic.
Thinking it is says more about your thought processes than mine.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
With no ability to be protected and simultaneously able to use their ability, the vanilla cop's results should be a little more useful, hence Neapolitan.
Last edited by -Grey- on Tue May 02, 2017 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
In post 183, -Grey- wrote:Goon Doctor Tracker would certainly not be balanced.
A large sample of newbie game data suggests you're very wrong.
I suggest the newbie game data suggestion is wrong.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
Ah okay.
Yeah Grey, giving scum a doc in Column C would just add more confusion. Tracker is a hard role anyways, and it's fairly easy for scum to play around. scum!Doc over complicates things. Plus, with a scumdoc/doc/track setup, you're basically asking for the docs to 1v1 at some point. The newbie experience would be better with Encryptor/Tracker/Doc.
Also, the scum!Doc is essentially just a goon in Nea/1-shot BP/Doc.
In post 190, Alisae wrote:The newbie experience would be better with Encryptor/Tracker/Doc.
Uh. No.
Adding day talk is not an alternative to muddling tracker results.
That's like firing off a nuclear warhead because you don't think C4 will bring the building down.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
That's essentially what you're doing because scum doc doesn't really have a place in Nea/1-shot BP/scum!Doc
Like, if you just want to fuck with tracker results you might as well give scum a follower or a visitor?
In post 194, Alisae wrote:That's essentially what you're doing because scum doc doesn't really have a place in Nea/1-shot BP/scum!Doc
Like, if you just want to fuck with tracker results you might as well give scum a follower or a visitor?
Scum Motion Detector!
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
May I remind everyone that the newbie setup started with the most fundamental, well-known roles and has evolved very slowly with intent to keep things fair and reasonable without sacrificing those basic roles.
Original: 5v2, Cop + Doctor vs 2 goons. Follow the Cop was developed within 100 games.
C9: Same as Original, but to break up FtC, it's a 50/50 chance that there's no Cop, and also a 50/50 chance that there's no Doctor. Obviously evened up very scumsided.
Pie E7: Same as Original, but to break up FtC, gives scum a Roleblocker. The Matrix6 version of this has 2 more players and is pretty balanced, meaning this 7-player version must have been scumsided.
California: Same as Original, but without the Doctor altogether. Scumsided.
F11: Moved to 9 players. Four subsetups: you can have a Cop, or a Doctor, or a Roleblocker, or all three. The "all three" one is balanced as we now know, but the rest are badly scumsided.
2of4: Gives scum a Rolecop and town two of the following: Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper, or nothing (VT). Worked pretty well, but the Doctor+Jailkeeper subsetup was too good for town.
Matrix6: What we have now. Was almost certainly built around the Cop+Doctor+RB trio, with the JK, Tracker, and BP added to even out the matrix.
We don't have any real reason to suddenly blow everything up and add all these new roles. Just keep it simple.
This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.
In post 198, Toomai wrote:We don't have any real reason to suddenly blow everything up and add all these new roles. Just keep it simple.
When newbie games were first implemented, there was what... a couple dozen roles? If that?
Now, there are hundreds.
What's wrong with a little more flavor being added to newbie games to reflect the growth of the game?
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
