In post 194, BigYoshiFan wrote:So, you've called out Transcend for his lacklustered posts. I am trying to determine if your interactions with Transcend are genuine. With Transcend, I don't think posts like he's made so far are out of the ordinary for him. I'm not sure if this is materializing into anything, yet.
why couldn't you have said that before hand? why did you need to know what my experience was?
I feel like if I told you, you might not have given me an answer and discarded it as nonsense. If you only played, say, 1 game with him, then you probably don't have an accurate sense of their play and would give less validity to how you're interacting with Transcend. You have 3 and thensome though.
Not sure why you would think I would avoid answering a question.
I still don't understand what me playing with him has to do with anything. I don't let meta affect my reads. I encourage others to do the same.
In post 202, TwoFace wrote:
In a game where the best way to scum hunt is to ask questions, to be suspicious of somebody doing that doesn't really make sense from a town pov.
To be suspicious of anyone asking questions?
There's a fine line between genius and sociopathy.
#sundevils #forksup
In post 103, Transcend wrote:because i don't like how you dumped three people into a cluster and picked out scum and town within them and i don't like the conclusions you reached on any of those 3 slots.
i don't like how after i call you out for junkposting, you immediately engage tryhard mode.
I don't like the way you framed this. Let's be honest -- was it really as bad as you are making it out to be?
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
I'm not letting Yoshi off the hook there, because I still feel like his response to the speedwagon was more likely to come from scum than town. I just think a Gamma scum flip strengthens my case against Yoshi.
At this point, I'm pretty sure this slot is town esp. after Transcend's tunnel.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
In post 194, BigYoshiFan wrote:So, you've called out Transcend for his lacklustered posts. I am trying to determine if your interactions with Transcend are genuine. With Transcend, I don't think posts like he's made so far are out of the ordinary for him. I'm not sure if this is materializing into anything, yet.
why couldn't you have said that before hand? why did you need to know what my experience was?
I feel like if I told you, you might not have given me an answer and discarded it as nonsense. If you only played, say, 1 game with him, then you probably don't have an accurate sense of their play and would give less validity to how you're interacting with Transcend. You have 3 and thensome though.
Not sure why you would think I would avoid answering a question.
I still don't understand what me playing with him has to do with anything. I don't let meta affect my reads. I encourage others to do the same.
I encourage others to avoid the pitfall of failing to note that there can be a large variety of playsyles and perspectives.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
To me they looked like questions trying to understand your reasoning. That's absolutely scum hunting. a player should be able to explain their thought process or reasons for doing something. So yeah you being suspicious of somebody for trying to understand your thought process is suspicious, especially when town should be transparent.
29 and 35 are clearly direct questions trying to get you to explain yourself. They were good questions because your reasoning wasn't clear.
If you are town and you honestly find that suspicious, I'm confused because I see no reason why anyone could/would be suspicious of that. (Boy that was hard. The old me would insert an insult here).
I mean I purposely leave off reasons to force people to ask me follow up questions so I can see who's interested in scum hunting and who isn't. You think follow ups are suspicious.
In post 209, Ircher wrote:I encourage others to avoid the pitfall of failing to note that there can be a large variety of playsyles and perspectives
Writing off somebody as town because "that's how they play as town" or "that's just their playstyle" are very bad habits that people really need to stop. Mimicking town play as scum has to be the easiest thing in the world to do.
If a person does something scummy you should find them scummy. If they do enough scummy things you can move that to a scum read. Ignoring scummy behavior because of meta is one of the reasons why town loses more than wins imo.
I'm not letting Yoshi off the hook there, because I still feel like his response to the speedwagon was more likely to come from scum than town. I just think a Gamma scum flip strengthens my case against Yoshi.
At this point, I'm pretty sure this slot is town esp. after Transcend's tunnel.
tl;dr at the end covering the major points I made. This is for people who don't read long posts. Please read at least that much, though I'd encourage everyone to read the whole thing. Spoiler tags included to make this long post easier to read.
Spoiler: Off Topic Regarding the Pronunciation of Delibird
Actually, as an avid Pokémon fan myself, It's widely known within the community that Pokémon themselves has been horribly inconsistent. Even within canon, many different Pokémon has had many different pronunciations of the same Pokémon. Most of the time, you'd go with any one so long others recognise it. The more common pronunciations of Delibird include "Deh-Lee-Bird", "Dee-Lih-Bird", "Dail-Li-Bird" and "Del-Uh-Bird"
I can understand this perspective, but when I talk about pronunciation, I do so from the perspective of intent. I believe that the only intent that makes sense here is a pronunciation based on the word "delivered."
Is pointing out a useless post really useless? What reasons do you have for your reads. If a person isn't transparent in their thinking, they can't expect to be understood.
I also feel like you're also being really defensive right now, yet you haven't responded to my accusations.
On top of this, I don't feel like there is much from you in the way of scumhunting.
To be clear, I'm not saying "being defensive is scummy" and "defend yourself from me." That would be hypocritical and unfair. I'm saying two things. First, you appear to be being defensive while ignoring my suspicion of you, which seems suspect to me. Second, if you are town (which I'm still not convinced of at all), please scum/townhunt. And I'd also ask that you do it in a more transparent way so that it is clear what you are trying to do.
I'm admittedly long-winded, and I apologize for that. But I'd rather my thinking be made transparent. I don't like leaving room for misinterpretation in what I say. It makes it easier to understand my thinking, even when it's flawed. On top of that, it gives me less wiggle room to say stuff like "I didn't mean it that way."
For example, your assertion that I was posting a lot without saying anything isn't even really true. I had 5 out of the 83 posts when you voted me. Two were during RTS. One was asking for clarification of a vote that I didn't understand. One was acknowledging that I now understood the previous message. The last was an acknowledgment that my quote was bad, to clarify that I understood that a mistake had been made. Do you have something against clarity of communication? Because I happen to believe it's very important.
On top of that, you make a really weak accusation that I went into tryhard mode after you voted me, despite the fact that I posted it a mere 10 minutes after your claim that I was posting a lot without saying much. I wish I could produce a post like that in 10 minutes. I usually spend upwards of an hour on a post, which I'll grant, you have no way of verifying. I've got to read, reread, fact-check, contemplate, and solidify my thoughts. Then I have to carefully select my words in order to remove as much ambiguity from my posts as possible, that way it can be clear to everyone exactly what I'm saying. And don't even get me started on the time I spend on BBCode to try to make things as intelligible as possible. Incidentally, that's why I made the comment regarding my messed up quote. Like I said, I'm pretty code with it. What I forgot about this site is that every now and then, when you click the quote button, the quote just appears messed up. I only even realized it because it happened to me again earlier. I'm pretty sure that's a bug that's been around since 2011 and I'm honestly kind of surprised it still exists.
My point is, even if you question my motives, I like to think that there is very little room for interpretation regarding the content of my words.
In post 155, Transcend wrote:As for the Mario read i thought his vote was towny but then read his iso and didn't like some of the posts
Could you please elaborate on this?
Spoiler: MortFeld
In post 152, MortFeld wrote:Not any strong reason. It does feel like they're trying honestly to interact with me in a way that's not like, 'I need to convince this person of something' or 'I need to manipulate this person' but more 'I want to share my ideas with this person and learn about theirs.'
That's exactly right. In fact, Titus made an excellent post in one of the discussion forums about this very topic. On top of which, strong communication is already something I am deeply interested in. I'm currently studying to be an Industrial/Organizational Psychologist. I won't bore you with all the details, but having clear communication and relying on understanding a plurality of ideas are key components to making an organization successful. Hence my boner for clear communication.
In post 152, MortFeld wrote:I admit a few of their posts are like, very tryhardy and the Yoshi vote is bad. But it's just a feeling.
I'm an admitted tryhard. I'd be happy to link you to a few of my past games if you don't believe me. Though I warn you, they're from a time when I was an uncooperative, (more) arrogant piece of shit. That's why I scrubbed my wiki page. Didn't really want those games associated with my current brand.
I'm not sure what to tell you if you think my Yoshi vote was bad. I've explained my reasoning to the best of my ability and I stand by it. It certainly wasn't the strongest case ever made, but it wouldn't be, considering there were less than 4 pages of content available at the time. Hell, I'm pleasantly surprised we were even out of RVS at that point.
Spoiler: MarioManiac4
In post 186, MarioManiac4 wrote:hey guys.
trans/mort/2face are probably town. (If this is the scumteam I will feel incredibly stupid postgame)
If anyone is here I'd be glad to discuss reads this game because I have no scumreads
Not liking his responses here. It looks like he's just looking for things to attack.
can you walk me through how you see somebody asking questions and translate that into attacking? I don't understand how anyone could make that leap.
It's the number, quantity, and lack of depth. Like a machine gun.
Your questions here are not attacks. Statement. Foundation. What your searching for.
In what way did they lack depth? Maybe I am projecting my own thought process, but the intent of Mort's line of questioning seemed pretty clear. And you're making it sound like he asked a bunch of unrelated questions to look busy. It was a pretty clear back and forth.
In post 132, MortFeld wrote:Yeah. He wouldn't be worried about me being scum, but that's not present in 45.
45 doesn't imply he is worried you are scum, it implies he is worried you are trying to find things to make him look bad. something if he was town he shouldn't worry about.
In post 193, TwoFace wrote:if you interpret somebody asking you questions as they are trying to incriminate you, then yes in my opinion you are worried about them. If you have nothing to hide you should not be bothered by anyone asking you questions, especially when the point of this game is to ask questions.
You know, I've heard this argument several times as I've played Mafia and other deception games and I never quite understood it. Town have extremely legitimate reasons to worry about looking suspicious. People can and are misinterpreted and mislynched. I can't speak for anyone else, but being mislynched or mistrusted is one of the most frustrating things in this game for me, especially in LyLo. It's possible to interpret that a line of questioning is being asked solely for the purpose of setting you up as a fall guy. This is compounded by the fact that townies are 100% certain that they are innocent and they sometimes overestimate how apparent that should be to everybody else.
That said, I generally agree with you and I don't think town should live in fear of that. Especially when it comes to vanilla townies. Not that I'm interpreting Yoshi as either a VT or a power role, I'm just saying in terms of game theory, VTs are expendable as hell and should be willing to jump on a grenade for most power roles. Mislynches can and will happen, there's no avoiding it. If it happens to you, it sucks, but oh well. So I think it's better to be loud and proud about your opinions if you are a member of the town and if you die, have some amount of faith that your team will find a way to turn your death into an advantage. Not everybody has that level of dedication to their team though. Some are just here to play a fun game. And there's nothing wrong with that; it's just not as helpful.
I'm not letting Yoshi off the hook there, because I still feel like his response to the speedwagon was more likely to come from scum than town. I just think a Gamma scum flip strengthens my case against Yoshi.
At this point, I'm pretty sure this slot is town esp. after Transcend's tunnel.
At this point, I'd like to point out that I always have been and always will be overly paranoid of people trying to buddy me. I am always concerned that I'm subject to confirmation bias, so I worry all of my reads are wrong and that everybody who trusts me is Mafia trying to manipulate me. That's a personal issue and I try not to let it throw me off too much, but it can be an issue when I ever survive until LyLo. I'm directing this more at the entire game in general, rather than just you. Your post is just the one that pushed my paranoia over the edge. I acknowledge it's relatively unfounded though.
In post 194, BigYoshiFan wrote:So, you've called out Transcend for his lacklustered posts. I am trying to determine if your interactions with Transcend are genuine. With Transcend, I don't think posts like he's made so far are out of the ordinary for him. I'm not sure if this is materializing into anything, yet.
why couldn't you have said that before hand? why did you need to know what my experience was?
I feel like if I told you, you might not have given me an answer and discarded it as nonsense. If you only played, say, 1 game with him, then you probably don't have an accurate sense of their play and would give less validity to how you're interacting with Transcend. You have 3 and thensome though.
Not sure why you would think I would avoid answering a question.
I still don't understand what me playing with him has to do with anything. I don't let meta affect my reads. I encourage others to do the same.
I encourage others to avoid the pitfall of failing to note that there can be a large variety of playsyles and perspectives.
I can't agree with this more. Based on your current posts, I have a feeling I'm really going to like you as a player, but I'm also really going to fear that you are going to stab my back. Again, I will try to not let this undue paranoia control me and if anybody notices me being paranoid, please call me out on it.
tl;dr:
1. It seems to me that Yoshi is being defensive against TwoFace while ignoring my accusations and is also not really scumhunting.
2. Transcend has grossly exaggerated the infractions that I've committed that make me scum in his eyes and I'd like to know his reasoning for his reads, particularly on Mario.
3. My emphasis on clear communication is a result of my field of study.
4. My tryhard nature is extremely apparent in any game I've been in on this site. It has nothing to do with my role and everything to do with my playstyle.
5. I don't fully understand Mort's misgivings about my Yoshi vote, because I feel I've sufficiently explained it. If it needs more elaboration, please ask. If it's just a gut thing, please say so.
6. I'd like Mario to explain his reads.
7. TwoFace already covered this in #210, but Mort's line of questioning was valid.
8. Townies have legitimate reason to fear being set up for a mislynch, but they should not let that fear control them.
9. I'm paranoid about people buddying me and that all of my reads are wrong. These things may cause me to react irrationally at points. Please let me know when that seems to be the case.
I'm likely going to be gone for the rest of the day. I've got class soon and I'm in other games, so I'll be focusing on all of that today, for the most part.
Basically, Hikari reads as a player that people can easily jump on for absolutely nothing. Transcend made this obvious to me by misrepping his 98 that explained that he found Yoshi most likely to be scum out of Yoshi/Gamma/Mort. (In particular, Transcend tried to present as there must be scum in the group.) 105 and 112 help reinforce my townread as they appear to be genuine responses. 128 as town reevaluating despite the lack of significant reason for the vote change -- it doesn't read as scum that is backpedaling from a possibly controversial read. 140 by Delbird once again reinforces the easy-to-misread feel on Hikari.
I'm not saying Hikari is a bad player by any means -- he's probably better than me. But, I do recognize that he can easily be misunderstood and that's a large basis of my townread. Things could change in the future, but that's where I stand atm.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
Transcend: His name is Jordan backwards, just call him Jordan.
Something_Smart: Your name is Dnecsnart backwards, should I call you Dnecsnart?
Transcend: lol that actually sounds funny
