Newbie 1793 (Game Over)

[Seungsik]

Ok and just want to say the fuck trendall has no balls. and really mods told almost50 to apologise for saying nothing????

I was also in that "this player is bad and dumb" list by Almost50

i didn't even took it as an offense, good its just a newbie game but dropping out still kinda confirms reads, so i guess trendall slot is even more town read than ever. oh and yes i just dropped out of yr12 highschool today and my grades are fine but my nerves just can't cope with it so its not even about irl issues.

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I currently don't have much thoughts about the game with api away and whymaf's wall that i ignored so i have no new reads, though i no longer townread him due to reasonings provided by almost50, almost 50 sounds townie to me and i am willing to sort that slot as town as well,
474 onward gave more weight to scumread whymaf


btw this is my response to trendall "The whole camn vs Apitoxin thing seems like nonsense to me tho but yes Camn is messy as hell and apitoxin came out winning i suppose." and the reason why i was townreading apitoxin, i saw u clipping this at post 505 about whymaf

[Seungsik]

also mildly disappointed by camn as IC, I feel like you are playing an SE slot here and theres not much guidance provided

no offense to you personally and i like you though

[Almost50]

btw this is my response to trendall "The whole camn vs Apitoxin thing seems like nonsense to me tho but yes Camn is messy as hell and apitoxin came out winning i suppose." and the reason why i was townreading apitoxin, i saw u clipping this at post 505 about whymaf

I'm about to go hit the hay, but YES.. it was your response I clipped, but I was referring to how WM "reaaaally loved it". Your response met WM's liking bc you liked his buddy more.

[Seungsik]

btw this is my response to trendall "The whole camn vs Apitoxin thing seems like nonsense to me tho but yes Camn is messy as hell and apitoxin came out winning i suppose." and the reason why i was townreading apitoxin, i saw u clipping this at post 505 about whymaf

I'm about to go hit the hay, but YES.. it was your response I clipped, but I was referring to how WM "reaaaally loved it". Your response met WM's liking bc you liked his buddy more.

oh i thought he mean he really loved trendalls post which i responded to..

[Seungsik]

as in " i realllly loved trendalls post, i townread trendall too"

[BlackVoid]

I'll come back to WhyMafia when I'm caught up. It might take a while so I'll just keep posting my impressions as I keep reading so people can engage me.

I'm torn on what to make of the Camn vs Apitoxin interaction early in the game. I do agree that Apitoxin asking Camn for reads and then saying that what he meant were explanations and other reads outside of the two Camn already gave was weird. Then he basically implied that he was using a different definition of "reads" than the rest of us in 85. I'm not sure whether I buy it but it's easily resolved.

From my prior experience, "reads" are understood to be "reading player behavior and potentially alignment". It's too early to feel super confidant in alignments, so I was more looking for the former.

@Apitoxin, when you come back, link me to your (offsite) games where you and other players used this definition for reads. If that's indeed the case, then the whole thing is clearly a misunderstanding.

As for Camn, I thought the initial attack was fine to drive the game forward but nothing spectacular. It's interesting to me that the early consensus before A50 replaced in was that Apitoxin came off looking better. Normally, I'd expect the IC/more experienced player to be more persuasive regardless of either's alignment. I'm not sure what to make of that yet. I do have a concern that Camn laid low when he/she attracted pressure for the push, let it blow over, came back, unvoted, and then picked it back up again when the tides turned with A50 replacing in.

@Camn, why did you unvote Apitoxin when you did?

@A50, is there more to your townread of Camn than just the Apitoxin push? I'm not ready to dismiss Camn as town just for that and the lack of presence bothers me a bit.

[Seungsik]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: whymaf

[BlackVoid]

Actually I think I misread the timeline. Camn put the vote back on Apitoxin before A50 voted so disregard that.

[Mulch]

Dude apotoxin fucked up then continued to fuck up when camn pressed. What more could you want.

[Mulch]

An apotoxin scum flip would also confirm camn as town. I hate saying this because I usually think it's REALLY scummy to make associations based on flips buy it would be obvious.

[Seungsik]

Dude apotoxin fucked up then continued to fuck up when camn pressed. What more could you want.

I think if i vote api he's be on L-1

i dont think my reads are clear enough to confirm that api is maf yet..

[Mulch]

Hey everyone would you mind doing some simple bracket reads?

[BlackVoid]

It's possible he's scum, yeah. But I think there are town explanations for his play as well which is why I want more from him. I think people are being way overconfident for this early in the game and it's just not that cut and dry. Also, I'd prefer if nobody is put at L-1 until I've caught up and solved the game. Seen too many quickhammers.

[Seungsik]

what is a bracket read?? @mulch

[Mulch]

Town: {}
Low town {}
Low scum {}
Scum {}
Some times I need like 5 levels, sometimes 3 levels. You get the idea

[Seungsik]

Town: [ Mulch, Blackvoid]
Leaning town: [ almost50]
Unsure:[ Camn,EV]
Leaning scum: [ Havo,Apitoxin]
Leaning more scum than others: [whymaf]

[camn]

@Apitoxin, when you come back, link me to your (offsite) games where you and other players used this definition for reads. If that's indeed the case, then the whole thing is clearly a misunderstanding.

As for Camn, I thought the initial attack was fine to drive the game forward but nothing spectacular. It's interesting to me that the early consensus before A50 replaced in was that Apitoxin came off looking better. Normally, I'd expect the IC/more experienced player to be more persuasive regardless of either's alignment. I'm not sure what to make of that yet. I do have a concern that Camn laid low when he/she attracted pressure for the push, let it blow over, came back, unvoted, and then picked it back up again when the tides turned with A50 replacing in.

@Camn, why did you unvote Apitoxin when you did?

To this-
Although I am certainly playing to win.. I am at the same time playing to make this a good game. As such, I am very, very intentional with what I do and don't do. There are no accidents here.

In re: Apitoxin- certainly I could have gotten agro and crushed him on page 4. I could have driven a lynch home on him based on swagger alone.. but I didn't want that, and I don't still.
I think an early day 1 lynch is FUN.. (though often a mislynch), but would not have been good for THIS game. It would have been too much about me and not enough about finding scum.
So I unvoted, and let things settle down. Sheep a but. Let other people make their own decisions about who is scum. I want Api lynched based on the players in the game thinking he is scum.. not just because camn-said-so... regardless of how he flips. Follow-the-IC is not fun.

That said- Apitoxin is totally scum and we should lynch him

@Suengsik- This is a good day 1. No guidance is needed here! You guys are totally all complaining about the right things. Walls are boring. Overconfidence is usually just that. Just keep reading- it all comes together!

[Seungsik]

@camn

do you know loopdan, oh god it was a bless playing with him when he was my IC!!! >:L srsly mysterious cupcake camn, good that u disappear and are now here again

[camn]

(i dont really understand brackets)

TOWN

[camn , Mulch, Almost50 ]

ProbTown, but 25% chance of scum here

[Havo, WhyMafia ,Seungsik ]

Maybe 1 scum here

[BlackVoid , EchoVision ]

Totally scum

[Apitoxin ]

[BlackVoid]

Trendall's replace out was obvtown. I'm surprised you didn't notice that. Scum don't get mad and replace out because they are called "bad or scum" and he most seemed to take issue with A50 calling him bad.

[Seungsik]

@blackvoid i already addressed that

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, I saw you pick up on that. I was talking to Camn who I thought would be even more likely to pick up on it.

[camn]

That would be a convenient narrative for you.

[camn]

'caught for the wrong reasons' is so infuriating to so many players it is unreal.

[BlackVoid]

Trendall was suspecting you, townreading Apitoxin, then A50 came in and said he was either bad or scum. Then he was genuinely offended at that (see 463 and 464) and decided to just leave. Because he was attached to his reads and had a sense of pride in those reads. Scum's reads are always fake and a it's absurd to think a mafia member would replace out because their (fake) reads have been put down.

Saying that he replaced out because he was "caught for the wrong reasons" is ridiculous and isn't something any self-respecting player would do. The mod wouldn't give a warning because scum replaced out when they were caught for the wrong reasons. But replacing out because he was offended that his opinions were being put down makes a ton more sense. I knew this slot was town even before I replaced in and I'm suspicious of you pretending otherwise.