In post 1913, Tammy wrote:Definitely wouldn't mind competing Titus and Keyser wagons.
Could you please summarize your scum-read of Titus in a consolidated paragraph.
In post 1921, Tammy wrote:I'd be more interested in you explaining your nacho read and answering my questions, and did you ever do your Gin read? Isn't he the third one?
I will 'summarize [my] scum-read of [Nacho] and [Gin] in consolidated paragraphs'.
Alisae is my strongest scum-read of the three as there are tangible items to highlight from his ISO.
I was hoping for both Nacho and Gin to explore/explain their scum-reads in explicit detail first (if any have developed), before I presented a 'full' case to the thread.
In post 1924, Fro99er wrote:Yeah nobody cares about his SAD town read yet he thinks it's some almighty feat he is providing to town
It is important I share my read on every slot. Even the slots I town-read. As my scum-reads are unlikely to lynched today, my focus has naturally changed to players (I town-lean/town-read) with votes on them [Titus, Boonskiies]. I'll likely look at Prism/rb after Nacho and Gin.
Town is in Nacho, Firebringer, Arthur (Boonskies) and outliers of Gin and possibly alisae.
My concerns are Titus are:
The beginning of the game she thought that nacho/implosion and my interaction was off, with most of her suspicion centered on Implosion and Nacho somewhat. She has muttered about this interaction being off but has done nothing with it. She said it was suspicious that Nacho had only given a couple reasons why he town read me so strongly and that is was based on meta she can't touch. (She has enough experience with the both of us to be able to prod at it.) That was reasoning given on about page 26 of the game. Almost fifty pages later she hasn't asked for an update or for him to expand. The lack of prodding or attempting to sort the players that she read as off since the beginning of the game is concerning.
Both of these players she's had somewhat troubles with have voted for her. Nacho voted without any reasoning. And Implosion sheeped nacho and isn't even pretending to try to sort Titus. She hasn't even blinked at these votes, which should be very odd for her.
Then some pages back, without any attempt to sort these players she finds off who are voting her for no reason at all, she changes gears. She omgus's hikari for a silly reason and then comes up with her new scum team of hiker/boonskies/Gin even though earlier she was town reading boon. She then purposefully* antagonized boon skies in a conversation this morning and boon skies interpretation looks actually legit. Titus is the leading wagon right now. Boon skies is the next wagon, and it looks like she was looking for a way to scum read boon skies so she can get on his wagon to deflect the wagon from herself. That is sheer opportunism.
She's staying here enough to look present but doesn't look like she's trying to figure out the game. She's not trying to sort the people who she claims to have issues with she's just kind of muttering about them. I don't see her trying to form town reads and get her town reads to work together, which is her thing. She claims part of the reason is because she's trying not to tunnel or deal with people who annoy her. But she's not even sorting. And she was the 11th person to sign up for this game; if there were annoying people here she didn't have to sign up, so that just looks like a cop out.
*It looks purposeful to me.
The only reason I'm not pushing this as hard as I'd like to is because I'd like to not be wrong here. Titus and I are never town together and she said in the sign up thread she hoped we were town together and I'd hoped so too. I've been hoping if she is town, she'd become apparent that she's town so that we could work together. But she's not doing that and she doesn't feel town at all.
In post 1873, Titus wrote:
I'm not death tunneling. I'll vote something decent. Prism just doesn't feel like it. I'm not locked into voting Hiraki at all. I am willing to lynch Alisae, Ari, Implosion, gun to my head Nacho (but that's never happening).
4 of these people are all on your wagon (Titus (4) ~ Nachomamma8, Hikari Link, implosion, Alisae). If you had to break it down who do you think is there for town-motivated reasons whether it's apathy or pressuring or w/e?
I don't have the data to do that and have it be worth a damn yet. It would just be my reads based on dayplay. I'd vote any of them atm, which helps absolutely no one.
Can you point me yo a town game in which you got ran up and went limp? Literally the only town thing you've done this game is to omgus hiraki, but people you've suspected have voted you and you've ignored that.
There's no fire st all. Reminds me of inception when you couldn't react properly to being run up.
I want to elaborate on this point because I think it's an important one.
Note that Nacho and Implosion are voting Titus for no reason given whatsoever. In fact, Implosion is just sheeping Nacho from a naked vote.
Titus gave absolutely no response to any of this. Supposedly she was concerned about both of these players from the early game. It looked like she was scum reading them or at least suspicious of them, Implosion for sure.
They vote her and she goes *shrug*
She then switches gears completely and goes hmm maybe Boon/Gin/Hiraki.
Has anyone ever seen town!Titus shrug at this?
Last edited by nancy on Mon May 08, 2017 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
In post 1926, Keyser Söze wrote:I was hoping for both Nacho and Gin to explore/explain their scum-reads in explicit detail first (if any have developed), before I presented a 'full' case to the thread.
If they are your scum reads such that they were your first and nothing changed at all, you shouldn't need cases provided by them to say why you are scum reading them. I don't need the cases to read them by; I want to see your reasons to read you by.
In post 1926, Keyser Söze wrote:I was hoping for both Nacho and Gin to explore/explain their scum-reads in explicit detail first (if any have developed), before I presented a 'full' case to the thread.
If they are your scum reads such that they were your first and nothing changed at all, you shouldn't need cases provided by them to say why you are scum reading them. I don't need the cases to read them by; I want to see your reasons to read you by.
True - (but part of my scum-hunting routine is to look at how players scum-hunt/pressure/develop their scum reads. Then I can add tangible evidence to my ongoing tonal/gut read. This may even weaken my scum-read of them.)
I will however, re-post the factors why I scum-read them so far (which I have previously shared).
Keyser in your points about Titus leaning town you mention a few times her focus on Implosion and how she won't let it go. What do you think about the fact that she didn't mention Implosion's sheeping vote on Nacho and then dropped that entirely to go to Gin/Boon/Hiraki?
School time. I'll try to continue where I left off and poke my head in when I can, but I keep falling behind the game and may need to replace out because it's such an active game. I'd rather avoid that though, since we've already had a couple replacements and I feel like that creates chaos and makes the game harder to read for everybody involved, much like my recent game that ended with imp and Titus.
In post 944, Keyser Söze wrote:- I don't believe his tone or sincerity (call it gut)
- not following up suspicion with a vote/pressure (RE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic)
- his scum-case on Fro99er felt reachy/desperate/weak
- his defence of Alisae felt unsupported (lacking adequate town-paranoia)
- I feel like Nacho is trying to play a safe game
This is nacho's town tone.
What pressure was lacking from Gin? Why does that lead to him scum?
How did his meta case based on previous experience with early Frogger seem reachy or weak? Why does him acknowledging he could be playing a gambit mean he has to move him to null? It was in the first 24-hours of the game why can't he pressure his scum reads?
Why is he supposed to show paranoia in the first 24 hours of the game? And why can't be that town paranoia?
How is he trying to play a safe game?
- I cannot say I have a strong meta-knowledge on his "town" tone. Does Nacho have a definitive town-tone you can easily notice? As scum, does he not have the ability to imitate his tone?
- Nacho did argue that he was interacting with Gin (which was a point I could not contest, as he was being actively inquisitive with the slot). However, in my eyes Nacho never escalated this suspicion/doubt to a vote. Looking back, it may have been feeding into my Gin-Nacho scum-theory. The way he later cross-examines Alisae more recently too without landing a final punch or bottom line read also made be suspicious. My tldr take on this is: this is gentle scum-distancing.
- My perspective of this was that Nacho was clutching at straws, and used this meta-read to land a forced vote on fro99er. Obviously, as soon as fro99er starts posting the whole argument falls apart (as it was based on activity, which in my book is non alignment indicative to begin with anyway. Sometimes there are hidden motives for big posters to stay quiet or even IRL issues). The only thing I can defend Nacho with is: it's early D1 - thus, scum reads won't be backed up with deep substance. I can understand this.
- regarding Nacho's defence of Alisae, I feel he town-read Alisae's 'frustration' too easily. Nacho couldn't see the scum-motivation in Alisae dropping his fro99er case so easy only to jump on Boonskiies right after. But Alisae's case on fro99er was without momentum or substance, so I didn't buy that argument.
- safe game: read the town players as town. Don't make any large ripples, and vote/scum-read the players who are a viable wagon. I am yet to see Nacho really push through a scum-read. Calling town players town is easy (some possible cases of TMI), but the more I see Nacho follow through with a scum read, I think the better I'll be able to get my head around his alignment. Because right now I am not buying his game-solving tone.
Last edited by nancy on Mon May 08, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
In post 1934, Keyser Söze wrote:But Alisae's case on fro99er was without momentum or substance
Once again, this is false
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
In post 1933, Hikari Link wrote:School time. I'll try to continue where I left off and poke my head in when I can, but I keep falling behind the game and may need to replace out because it's such an active game. I'd rather avoid that though, since we've already had a couple replacements and I feel like that creates chaos and makes the game harder to read for everybody involved, much like my recent game that ended with imp and Titus.
Things like this have me wigging on your slot when I know you recently replaced into a large theme. (No I'm not asking you to say anything about the game or talk about it or anything. It just concerns me when you make lists like this.)
I'll respond to keyser in a bit, heading into the rink and I only have the ice to myself for a short time so later
In post 1932, Tammy wrote:Keyser in your points about Titus leaning town you mention a few times her focus on Implosion and how she won't let it go. What do you think about the fact that she didn't mention Implosion's sheeping vote on Nacho and then dropped that entirely to go to Gin/Boon/Hiraki?
I feel like Titus is still pedalling the implosion-Nacho scum-angle in the background (but looks defeated in actually materialising a wagon on either).
I think she concluded town on Boonskiies.
Gin I would like to hear more about.
But yes, Hiraki was the only real obvious change of focus (which I think was sparked by Titus thinking Hiraki had miss-repped her contributions this game). Therefore, I could understand if Titus' emotions and energies were then solely invested into attacking Hiraki.
I also still don't understand the frogger/alisae read progression on each other and it looks incredibly unnatural.
Alisae's early read was looked like scumreading frogger and boonskiies, but whereas he kept yelling and pushing boonskiies his frogger read and interaction felt like wet noodle fight where no one was believing what they were doing.
vezokpiraka: If you are playing on EUNE we can duo.
chesskid3: I play on NA because i enjoy my freedom.
Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan
Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 1942, Titus wrote:
@Tammy, I don't feel like correcting your walls. I've noticed them. I think you're expecting me from 2 years ago. I won't be her. You don't like her.
Oh please correct me where I'm wrong. Do something anything that looks town if you are.
The only thing I have said that drives me crazy about you is that you don't read my posts and then accuse me of doing stuff I'm not doing and say I am doing things I'm not. It probably wouldn't be so annoying if you didn't act like you wanted to work with me and then do it over and over again.
You know what maybe the problem is me. I feel like I start off being patient, I feel like I've tried working with you, tried explaining where I thought your perceptions were wrong, been open to hearing other reasons. Yes, I've gotten increasingly aggravated as the game has gone on, and that is due to you obviously not reading my posts and saying I'm doing stuff I'm not doing. I think what you actually want is for me to just agree with you on everything. That's not going to happen, so I'm just going to stop trying to work with you, it causes me too much frustration.
I do want you to start doing stuff that looks like town if you are town because you look like scum. I would like an example of a town game where your scum reads voted you and you had no reaction at all.
In post 1946, Tammy wrote:You know what maybe the problem is me. I feel like I start off being patient, I feel like I've tried working with you, tried explaining where I thought your perceptions were wrong, been open to hearing other reasons. Yes, I've gotten increasingly aggravated as the game has gone on, and that is due to you obviously not reading my posts and saying I'm doing stuff I'm not doing. I think what you actually want is for me to just agree with you on everything. That's not going to happen, so I'm just going to stop trying to work with you, it causes me too much frustration.
This is how I have felt with you since you've told me meta this meta that, your reads suck, repeat them.
Are you seriously TRing everyone I'd vote?
I am sure there's a game out there where I felt this apathetic. I don't really do meta or remember those.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
be that town paranoia?
