Mini Normal 1909: Girls ♥ Girls 1 ~ Endgame

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Tammy fwiw I think you/Titus is TvT I don't think she's purposely trying to aggravate you as much as it's regular crisp Titus.

[Fro99er]

am I missing something about star wars

I keep seeing people use it contexts I don't understand

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Did someone say star wars

Spoiler:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

am I missing something about star wars

I keep seeing people use it contexts I don't understand

Titus, literally. spent. the. entire. game. arguing. with. nero. from. the. start. of. RVS.

[Aristophanes]

am I missing something about star wars

I keep seeing people use it contexts I don't understand

Rogue One I assume

[Fro99er]

am I missing something about star wars

I keep seeing people use it contexts I don't understand

Titus, literally. spent. the. entire. game. arguing. with. nero. from. the. start. of. RVS.

shocker

[Hikari Link]

God, how am I already 41 pages behind? I legitimately don't know how to effectively scumhunt in a game that moves this quickly. Just from my random check-ins on recent posts throughout the last couple days, I can see that there are various responses to my questions and questions to me, but I feel like just skimming everything else is going to affect my ability to sort people.

What strategies do you guys implement to keep up with games that move at this pace? I don't want to replace out (I'm actually really liking the players here), but I'd rather not drag everyone down because I keep falling behind. I imagine if I survive until later in the game, it'll be easier, since we'll have some flips to deal with and hopefully some useful PR results. But what can I do right now to be a quicker, more efficient asset?

[Tammy]

Erm that is something I've been trying to work out for the really quick games I play.

Look at the wagons and iso the top wagon getters? ISO your strongest scum reads?

I sometimes skim and pay attention to what my strong town reads are doing and what their reading and try to balance out myself with their thoughts and reads.

[Firebringer]

I love you all

~ Awwww I wubs you too <3 ~

* Me tooooo <3 *

[Hikari Link]

Erm that is something I've been trying to work out for the really quick games I play.

Look at the wagons and iso the top wagon getters? ISO your strongest scum reads?

I sometimes skim and pay attention to what my strong town reads are doing and what their reading and try to balance out myself with their thoughts and reads.

ISOing is really useful for certain things, but sometimes it can be really harmful to do that and deprive the person of context. Granted, you can click on certain posts and look at the posts around it, but without the natural flow of the game, I feel like it still degrades the reads. Might be that I'm just too much of a perfectionist though (which I am), so it kills me not to absorb all info and consider every angle. But maybe that's good practive for me to become better at relinquishing control and taking things less seriously.

I was thinking something along the lines of putting faith in my stronger townreads and trusting their judgment. The thing I dislike about that is just because I townread somebody doesn't mean they are town or correct. I've always been naturally more inclined to lead than follow, but after my personal revelation, I wonder if it might not be a good idea to take the backseat more often. Or to find a way to strike a balance between the two.

By the way, that revelation was in the recently finished game with implosion and Titus, for those interested. This is the specific post where I had my epiphany, though there was a fair amount of buildup to it.

[Nachomamma8]

My general method for keeping up with games is to read everything (and not be worried about actually keeping up with it) and then reading things if they catch my interest later, but I usually end up behind in "what I intend to post" as opposed to "what I intend to read".

[Tammy]

All of that is fair!

Isoing does deprive context and makes it suboptimal.

Just following town reads also *can* be suboptimal because yes just because they're town doesn't mean they're right.

They're definitely imperfect solutions to trying to catchup in a game moving faster than you can dedicate to every post, but for day one at least it can be a stop-gap measure.

Some people take the view that as long as their town reads aren't lynched day one, they don't really care who is lynched since it's almost always a mislynch anyway, that's an imperfect view to have also, but it's one some players take.

[Tammy]

Also I sometimes skim when I get behind and then deal with gut reads, but that's also imperfect although my gut reads in those situations have been okay when I've done it.

[implosion]

hooray for more pages.

SAD's push on aristophanes feels possibly off to me. Boon was definitely the consensus townread (at least, it seemed like most active voices were calling him town) that I've been the most meh about. Like for example 2346. I agree it's not a natural thought progression per se but it is not a sequence of posts that especially makes sense to say as scum either. What's the scum motivation for acting that way in response to the titus reaction test? SAD's push feels to me like a tunnel that isn't looking at both sides of the coin. I feel like he's discrediting or ignoring the aspects of aris's posts that point to town at this point but it's possible that SAD just doesn't put credence into those kinds of tells.

I'm much less suspicious of Gin than I was.

[implosion]

and i know this makes the titus wagon not the leading wagon anymore and therefore makes the pseudo-contract that keyser signed null and void, but it should be useful to see if he does it anyway.

Unvote

VOTE: Keyser Soze

[implosion]

Fire replaced out? That's sad. He was the RB slot right? Oh well, fresh player to read at least.

This is not town.

I would like a justification for why this is not town, and more specifically, why scum is specifically more motivated to make the post. I'm not sure which direction you're coming from.

[Tammy]

so implosion why do you scum read keyser?

[implosion]

The big thing was what I viewed as frogger's strongest/main point: keyser isn't displaying any paranoia of his townreads at all, and I'm willing to believe that he has a meta of it (I technically have one completed game with keyser where i was town and he was scum who n1'd me but i have no real memory of it). Keyser's response of "i'm trying out a new style at nancy's request" does not justify not having paranoia over reads; that isn't a matter of style, he's just deflecting the point. I'm willing to believe that he's trying out a new style but how much confidence you have in your reads is imo not related to adopting a new style of play, and it's a serious concern if he normally has it as town and i don't think he can explain it away with the alternate style justification.

[Titus]

All of that is fair!

Isoing does deprive context and makes it suboptimal.

Just following town reads also *can* be suboptimal because yes just because they're town doesn't mean they're right.

They're definitely imperfect solutions to trying to catchup in a game moving faster than you can dedicate to every post, but for day one at least it can be a stop-gap measure.

Some people take the view that as long as their town reads aren't lynched day one, they don't really care who is lynched since it's almost always a mislynch anyway, that's an imperfect view to have also, but it's one some players take.

I'm one of them.

[Hikari Link]

Spoiler:

My general method for keeping up with games is to read everything (and not be worried about actually keeping up with it) and then reading things if they catch my interest later, but I usually end up behind in "what I intend to post" as opposed to "what I intend to read".

Yeah, that's what I feel like I've been doing so far and what my general strategy is. I just worry that it isn't helpful because people can't get a read on me, I can't get a full read on everyone else, and I can't help people get a read on everyone else. But this might go back to my own arrogance and need for control. I feel like what I have to add to games is so valuable that I must get it out there as quickly as possible, otherwise people could make bad choices without my input or I could die and my input would be forever lost.

But that's part of me that I dislike so much and made me come to that realization, so I have the knee jerk reaction of wanting to discard that attitude. At the same time, it's so ingrained into me that it feels wrong to just get rid of that part of me. And I worry that by overcompensating, I'll still be a bigger detriment than I would've been if I just stayed the way I am. On one hand, winning is fun and I feel like people enjoy winning. On the other hand, I feel like I can suck the fun out of a game and that's not something I ever find acceptable, regardless of my alignment. I don't personally believe in fun at the undue expense of others (i.e. emotional manipulation, inducing anger, attempts to hurt feelings, etc.)

All of that is fair!

Isoing does deprive context and makes it suboptimal.

Just following town reads also *can* be suboptimal because yes just because they're town doesn't mean they're right.

They're definitely imperfect solutions to trying to catchup in a game moving faster than you can dedicate to every post, but for day one at least it can be a stop-gap measure.

Some people take the view that as long as their town reads aren't lynched day one, they don't really care who is lynched since it's almost always a mislynch anyway, that's an imperfect view to have also, but it's one some players take.

And suboptimal play is what I typically try to avoid in pretty much every type of game I play. But sometimes maybe sometimes suboptimal play is the most optimal play under the right (or, more aptly, wrong) conditions. I suppose time constraints, lack of experience, lack of information, and things of that nature can make it so that your best bet is not to make the best move.

Disclaimer:

As I've said with a couple of my previous posts where I've attempted to give you guys a transparent view of my thought process, please don't loo st this as alignment indicative. I have no desire to appeal to anyone's emotions or create a specific image of me. This is just self-disclosure that I feel is necessary.

My intent is helping you guys understand me better as a player, both in this game and in future games, as well as to discuss these sorts of things so I can grow as a player and be of greater use. I simply discuss them in-game, rather than elsewhere because I feel they are intrinsically tied to the events of this game and as such, should not be discussed elsewhere. On top of that, I feel there is inherent game value in being able to understand the mind of your fellow players.

That said, feel free to believe or disbelieve anything I've said here if you think it is for the purposes of manipulating you. It's something we can discuss later. I won't make some sort of claim here on my honor as a player or a person. I recall once having to be force-replaced (nearly modkilled) for something similar once back when I used to play here and I'd rather not risk it now.

[implosion]

Prism is another read that i'm churning on a bit and i feel like there aren't many of his posts that I haven't skimmed <.<

I think that I'm still of the opinion that rb's play was pretty town.

I guess my reads right now look something like this:

Tammy, Nacho, Frogger
Firebringer, Gin, Alisae, Aristophanes
Hikari, Prism
Titus
SAD
Keyser

And those orderings aren't super solid near the bottom. Tammy i'm basically sold on nacho i'm basically sold on, frogger's play seems really driven to me and I really like the directions that he's taken and the focus that he's been bringing and the emotion behind his posts looks to me like it's the natural kind of emotion that should be accompanying the way the game has gone WRT his scumhunting.

The second tier is basically townreads that would surprise me a little but not a lot if i'm wrong about them. Hikari/prism are townleans, Titus is also sort of a townlean/idk. There was something from her earlier that made me question the read on her but it might just be my natural paranoia of everything.

[implosion]

There's a certain part of me that is just super super inclined to write off hikari as town for the way he talks about himself. I don't think that part of me should be allowed to exercise full control of that read though, or perhaps any control whatsoever.

[implosion]

@Fro99er - your town meta read analysis on me is very limited and therefore not accurate this game.

I understand how you are noticing playstyle differences though (this was a conscious pre-game decision from me).

You are miss-reading this as alignment indicative.

I am confident with my town reads and scum reads this game. Hopefully you will consolidate on my scum read(s) later today or D2.

Why do you think you're so confident of your reads this game?
Don't you think a player list like this with so many skilled (imo at least) scum players deserves quite a bit of paranoia? Or at least some second-guessing? Idk. Do you think it's just a complete coincidence that the posts that have been made in this game happen to be highly sortable to you based on the way that you tend to read games, or is part of the playstyle that you're adopting to not deviate from the reads that you pick up early even if you see contrary signals?

[Tammy]

There's a certain part of me that is just super super inclined to write off hikari as town for the way he talks about himself. I don't think that part of me should be allowed to exercise full control of that read though, or perhaps any control whatsoever.

Yeah, I think this too.

[Tammy]

Hikari - I think the trick is to find/figure out which imperfect method works for you.