Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[TwoFace]

OK...so my morning greeting to the game is more unfounded animosity from TwoFace

This is the biggest load of crap. You knew before you even replaced in that you would receive animosity from me.

[Tarkus]

PLEASE

[TwoFace]

HOLY SHIT STOP IT

Sorry. If I am forced to play with him, I'm playing with him.

Y'all had your chance to wotc him with me. Nobody did.

[TwoFace]

I post long walls with links to comments typically only when I am catching up from several pages (ex. after weekends or when replacing in)

You make these kinds of posts more often than that. Mainly cause you avoid posting daily. The problem with these posts is it is impossible to read and respond to on a mobile device cause you have to keep going back and forth in your browser. You can't easily quote specific information without losing the hyperlink to the post number and by the time you reach the bottom you've gone back and forth 30 times. Hell its difficult to respond on a computer also for essentially the same reasons.

Im willing to bet most people would prefer you quote a post, say what you have an issue with, and move to the next post. Plus not everything you include in these posts need to be included. You throw things in that have either been answered already or are now irrelevant.

I can understand doing it after catching up from a replacement. But doing it after a weekend or any other time after the catch-up is completely unnecessary. You actually hurt town by not allowing them to directly interact with you. Which is something you don't really do unless it's a back and forth argument.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Ircher

Then what about this dude

Why him?

I kinda think he's scum

Also mort is another one of my TR

can you try to explain this please wheme

Uhm idk it just feels like he's scum, tone of posts? Idk

[WhemeStar]

His first vote on gamma is something I think he would do as scum, and then after his push on gamma was weak

[TwoFace]

Your behavior since I joined has been reprehensible. If you stop whinging about me there's no reason things can't be completely civil...smh.

1. If it's so bad maybe you should leave. You want to enjoy a friendly game of mafia and you knew before you joined you weren't going to get that with me.

2. I can't be civil with somebody who I hate and who I just mislynched because of you intentionally played terrible. That's why I consider it game throwing cause your play wasn't like any other town havingfitz game I've ever seen and I've seen plenty.

[MortFeld]

His first vote on gamma is something I think he would do as scum, and then after his push on gamma was weak

Just to confirm - this is not a meta argument right?

[Gamma Emerald]

His first vote on gamma is something I think he would do as scum, and then after his push on gamma was weak

He retracted his push tho which I tr

[MMM]

Got the prod. Been busy with exams and such. Catching up. Hopefully will get a reply done by today, if not I'll send it in tomorrow.

[BigYoshiFan]

Fitz, can I have a definitive reads list from you?

[WhemeStar]

Maybe Titus/MMM

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe Titus/MMM

?

[BigYoshiFan]

As a scum team? Is that associative?
And why?

[MMM]

If I missed out on anyone's questions/other stuff lemme know I'm done with the catchup game

Spoiler: Regarding Transcend

In post 729, Hikari Link wrote:
In post 699, MMM wrote:
With the bit of time I have right now:
In post 692, MarioManiac4 wrote:
like the reasoning behind all of the emotion related to transcend is basically non-existent, like he tunnelled transcend and I'm not really buying that this was because transcend called him an idiot backhandedly. I feel like he may have been seeking a way out of a Transcend wagon he didn't want to stay on.
Being called an idiot wasn't the reason to get on
It was however an amazing reason to stay on afterwards and shit on him for everything
If he wasn't subbed my vote would be parked, even if he's subbed it probably is
No clue what you mean by "didn't want to stay on", I'm perfectly fine with doing so //shrug

Why would your vote stay parked, even if he is subbed?
I said probably. The sub has a lot of convincing to do. (if we ever get one)

I think you misunderstand me. I'm asking you why that's the case. Other than insult you, what activity made him

so

scummy that even with a replacement, his slot can't be redeemed.

When Transcend was still in and I hadn't voted him yet it seemed to me like it could really just be a playstyle thing, but by the time he subbed out he changed literally nothing and just kept spewing what at least seemed to be nonsense the entire time. And I feel like it's deliberate, and hence scum motivated.

Wouldn't that be indicative of his personalty then, not his playstyle or his alignment motivations?

No I think if he was town he would have at least tried doing SOMETHING, but yet he didn't. Unless he gets banned for being a huge troll or something that's the way my read of his actions is going to stay.

What are you basing that assumption on? Also, please point out the approximate post where he went to obvscum status on your chart.

Spoiler: Right here

Getting d1ed by a bunch of idiots who can't read me.

Lame.

>calling everyone lynching him idiots

I don't like his progression through the game

I don't like his pre flip associations

>not a single example

Titus+Mort/BYF+GE for early scum team imo

Not associating anyone that's just who I think is scummiest atm

Titus for reactions on me
Mort/BYF gives me TvS vibes
GE just feels scummy to me

This is junk

This is junk too

Mort help get the votes off of me lol

>does ate

I'm bad at defending myself unless i ate/wifom which i don't like doing

>talks about ateing next post

I'm sorry is this mafia or is this a fucking popularity contest?

Spoiler: Regarding Replacing Out

Also, why did she wait until now to replace out if it was for that reason?

That's something I can't answer either, but I can say almost for sure none of the replace-outs were caught scum. (Maybe scum, definitely not caught)

And now it becomes a trust tell... sigh.

It's not a trust tell, it's just NAI.

How can you reconcile these two statements when both of them subbed out when they had a large wagon on them? If they were scum, they were fairly caught. So if you say that they weren't caught scum, it sounds like a trust tell. I'm not trying to misrepresent you, I just want to understand where you are coming from.

Wagons can easily shift over time even if for a few days there are only a couple of people that are being focused on/wagoned. Unless 75% of the town says a person is scum (or there is evidence from a cop/similar), wagons can change, and therefore scum is not caught at all.
Just because there is a large wagon on you, heck even if it's at L-1, does not mean that if you replace out the reasoning HAS to be that you're caught scum.

I feel like we have different definitions of "caught." And you're applying your definition as though everybody feels it is the same definition. For all you know, one or both of them could feel that L-2 is serious enough to be considered caught.

That said, I'm not saying that caught scum necessarily have to replace out because they are caught. They can be caught and they can be scum and they can replace out, but that doesn't me that they replaced out because they were caught scum.

We might have. And yes, I do tend to assume that I am obviously in the right a lot of the time even if it's not really obvious and sometimes even if I'm not right. Perhaps all my viewpoints on the matter of subbing out come from the fact that I have a somewhat petty dislike for giving up until having actually tried everything I could.

Again, you're misunderstanding me and your feelings on giving up aren't relevant here, because what I said has nothing to do with giving up.

I'm saying that different people have different ideas of when they are caught. For example, I tend to feel caught as scum when 15%-25% of people suspect me and or when nobody townreads me. So you can't (or at least, shouldn't) apply your definition of caught to them when you don't know when they feel like they are caught.

On top of that, I'm saying that both Titus and Transcend could've considered themselves caught scum, yet still replaced out because they didn't like the attitudes of players in the game. I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm just pointing out that there can be differences in communication and perspective that can be barriers to understanding somebody's motivations.

Sorry your posts are very tl;dr-y and I try to read the full posts regardless of whether they address me to gain full understanding of your viewpoints and when it does address me, like just now, I lose sight of what we're actually arguing about. Or in this case talking since, according to you, you're not arguing (which I now only have a vague recollection of - exams are stressful).
If you'd like me to say anything else about this reiterate please and I'll have a look at it again.

As I see it we're bogged down in two slots that are now empty, and I have a strong feeling that scum's pretty content with the game state. I know I'm part to blame, and it's tough playing without a full lineup, and motivation is low after the shitshow, but let's get something going!

This is... actually a really good point, and suggests to me that both Transcend and Titus' subs are town (I believe they were both at L-2 when that was posted)

havingfitz replaces Titus,

This is why.

So we're chaining replace outs now...?

Plus my opinions are usually shit according everyone else.

I actually think you make solid points but what IS shit about you is your attitude.

Oh btw I think we should give Titus's replacement a chance

This regarding all the sub ins, including the one for Transcend, and on that note
UNVOTE:
because honestly even if I was to keep the lynch I don't think it'll happen at this rate

Inb4 TwoFace is giving his scummate a reason to ignore him

Seems pretty unlikely. Though it's not guaranteed, TwoFace is still most likely town based on his role.

I don't know if I said this yet but I don't want to read TwoFace based on him being a doublevoter and I don't think anyone else should do it.

Am I the only one bothered that I'm at the top of that list? Even above TwoFace.

I was about to ask why you were top.

And in case my tone wasn't clear, MMM, I'm looking for an explanation.

2 people have hiraki as their top town read. seriously wtf am I missing about hiraki?

I feel like Hikari is town because his posts show very clearly that he is trying to advance the game and I'm only marginally less certain on this read after seeing him say he shows these attitudes as either alignment.

@MMM...your Mort comments in posts 127 and 131, so close to each other, seem contradictory wrt Mort. (which Mort and Hiraki question afterwards as well)

I already pointed out like 5 posts after the post you linked that Mort isn't one of the two scum reads I mentioned.

]@Mario... why are you null reading TwoFace? What is your read on him disregarding his double vote role?

I'm not obvtowning him for having a role that is uncommon on scum, period. I do town read him but I really want to emphasise it's because of his contributions and not his role.

I think titus left because she didn't like how transcend was playing towards her and was upset that we didn't lynch him for it.

Now that you mention it that seems entirely possible

especially since I overly sympathise with the situation of wanting transcend lynched for being bullshit

His first vote on gamma is something I think he would do as scum, and then after his push on gamma was weak

Not sure if this is that scummy since he has had his vote on since RVS...? Elaborate please.

[TwoFace]

So we're chaining replace outs now...?

no. Not sure why that quote made you think that since we were talking about why I was replacing out...

[TwoFace]

I actually think you make solid points but what IS shit about you is your attitude.

My attitude was fine until the person who knows we are like oil and water decided to replace in. It's like a guy walking into a room filled with explosive gas and lighting a match. The outcome is known before he does it but does it anyway.

I wanted to play a game without any drama and first I get accused of being toxic when I wasn't and now a player intentionally replaces in this game knowing that we can't be civil with each other because historically we've never been able to be civil and he acts like he has no idea that I'd be mad about it.

[Ircher]

2 people have hiraki as their top town read. seriously wtf am I missing about hiraki?

The fact that one-size-doesn't-fit-all.

[Ircher]

Sure, but he's given us the options of forcing a replace or lynching fitz, and said he'll L1 him tonight. Sounds like a PL to me? I get that there are people on the wagon who scumread titus, but it seems like this fitz lynch is looming for the wrong reason

4/5 people currently scumread the slot for non-personal/playstyle reasons. How is that a policy lynch?

[MortFeld]

Maybe Titus/MMM

I love playing with you dude but stop fucking ignoring questions

[TwoFace]

2 people have hiraki as their top town read. seriously wtf am I missing about hiraki?

The fact that one-size-doesn't-fit-all.

Huh?

[Ircher]

I post long walls with links to comments typically only when I am catching up from several pages (ex. after weekends or when replacing in)

You make these kinds of posts more often than that. Mainly cause you avoid posting daily. The problem with these posts is it is impossible to read and respond to on a mobile device cause you have to keep going back and forth in your browser. You can't easily quote specific information without losing the hyperlink to the post number and by the time you reach the bottom you've gone back and forth 30 times. Hell its difficult to respond on a computer also for essentially the same reasons.

Im willing to bet most people would prefer you quote a post, say what you have an issue with, and move to the next post. Plus not everything you include in these posts need to be included. You throw things in that have either been answered already or are now irrelevant.

I can understand doing it after catching up from a replacement. But doing it after a weekend or any other time after the catch-up is completely unnecessary. You actually hurt town by not allowing them to directly interact with you. Which is something you don't really do unless it's a back and forth argument.

An alternate solution is to do the post linking but tryy to provide an objective summary of the post.

[Ircher]

2 people have hiraki as their top town read. seriously wtf am I missing about hiraki?

The fact that one-size-doesn't-fit-all.

Huh?

Eh, nevermind. I think I saw why you disagreed w/ the townread and that's different from what I originally thought.

[WhemeStar]

Maybe Titus/MMM

I love playing with you dude but stop fucking ignoring questions

What question

[Ircher]

Titus Evaluation

1. 38 --> Votes Mort cuz she doesn't like his responses -->

I disagree greatly with the assessment. His reads look fine imo and show a town thought process. It seems more like Titus is simpl trying to find something she can attack herself -- how ironic!

2. 171 --> Elaborates on Mort read; mainly states that Mort's stuff lacks depth and asks too many questions -->

Honestly, I still feel like Titus is trying to find things to attack; Titus made the original read about 1 1/2 pages into the game. So, w/ RVS et cetera, there isn't going to be a lot to analyze so questions won't have a lot of depth. While the # of Qs Mort asked was kinda high, I don't necessarily see it as scum-motivated.

3. 177 --> Admits reasoning was bad cuz trying to get things going -->

And this feels like Titus is distancing from her read. Had she said this way earlier, I might buy it, but this seems to be Titus thinking "Oops! I better try to play that read off as non-serious". I don't buy it at all.

4. 178 --> Mort/Yoshi pinged her as partners -->

This early in the game? I mean, 68 kinda pinged me as Titus / MMM being possible partners, but by no means did I see a solid association between the two. Unless Titus elaborates later, this association read feels superficial and an attempt to appear to have reads while simultaneously casting shade at another player.

5. 182 --> Transcend is weak town -->

I would like to note that this happened after Transcend said that town!Titus pretty much always defends him at this point in the game. Titus is obviously trying to keep her options open.

6. 387 --> Asks how Tarkus can see things as her on Mort despite not understanding Titus's posts -->

Different perspective perhaps? Feels like another shade-throwing attempt. Not to mention that Titus hasn't been too specific in her read, so it's pretty difficult to understand when one quotes zero evidence.

7. 408 --> Says town!Trans actually pressures people -->

What suggests he isn't? Also, I honestly don't see the difference between Transcend here and Transcend in 1900. Again, I think this is scum Titus keeping her options open.

So that is my not meta-based case on Titus.