Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[Ircher]

it only took one townread for him to go from, "when my reads aren't very strong, I am generally okay w/ lynching anyone who isn't someone I'm against lynching." to basically declaring he cannot see pp as town whatsoever?

I keep seeing this assertion that I stated Penguin couldn't be town yet I don't think I ever expressed such sentiment.

[MMM]

Leaning scum on Ircher after this.
MM4 seems like town.
That said my preferred wagon is still Wheme because I liked Ircher's early content and I think he's more likely to redeem himself, Wheme is just an easier lynch to actually achieve (throwback to Kelvin's original suggestion of lynching Gamma/Wheme), and Wheme is just going to be useless even if kept alive, on top of having claimed VT already, and for no reason.
Yes, it might be possible that I'm tunnelling off my last reads a bit because this day's been strenuous but I'll try keeping an open mind. Ircher, PP and fitz are probably my top lynches for day 2 though. Might lump in Gamma too, but he is gradually seeming less scummy.

@Ircher:

What is your read on PP and how did it develop?

[MarioManiac4]

We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

if you can't see play as coming from town, it has to be scum right?

[Ircher]

It's called compromise.

Also, when my reads aren't very strong, I am generally okay w/ lynching anyone who isn't someone I'm against lynching. Boring games contribute to those not-so-strong reads.

VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this

This actually makes me slightly tr Wheme -- I've seen quite a few self-votes but practically all of them have been town w/ the exception of self-hammers.

VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this

Oh I love when scum give up. Thanks.

No problem bud, how much will you yell at me when I flip town tho

If I flip town*

This also reads as town based on my experience w/ this stuff.

like
his selfvote is bad af as scum and I can't see scum doing it ever
His selfvote was evidently not a scumclaim now and although it is bad I don't think it was scum at all
(im going to feel so stupid if wheme flips scum lmao)

Scum self voting is not uncommon. More often it's as a hammer to avoid discussion but I've seen non hammer scum self votes. For the reaction you're having.

Quote me some non-hammer examples.

Soooo Ircher why you fine with voting me, and then have me as a slight toweread???

Please explain good sir.

I said that before I read those posts.

My reads have changed, and I no longer feel as confident in lynching you right now.

No, it becomes NAI when you do it as scum as well.

Pedt: I wonder as well....

Wheme, if I'm understanding correctly, you are handicapping your town game so that you aren't obvious as scum. I feel like you would be better served elevating your scum game. Better to be an asset to your team than to be a hindrance.

Half of the players on this site are doing this. ive been saying this since i got here. Players don't know how to play as scum so they dumb down their town play so they can skate by as scum.

It's why people get mad at me for pushing scummy people and being wrong. They should be mad at the people playing bad but whatever.

Yeah, it is an issue when players intentionally do it. But I always assume good faith.

We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

all of the read-related posting between Ircher's "unsure" post and "PP is basically modconfirmed scum" post is that he got a townread on wheme

Ok, now I remember. The assertion was on the basis that Wheme and PP seemed the only viable lynches at the time.

Pedit: I never stated that. That said, I have a lot of weak to moderate and a few strong townreads right now. Honestly though, I disagree with the way that you are representing my post and failing to consider surrounding context.

[MarioManiac4]

what does context have to do with not being able to see a player as town?

[Ircher]

ok ok
so
Ircher can ever so slightly see Wheme being town, right?
So this implies he has a scumread on Wheme. But he thinks Wheme could technically be town.
PP does not have this benefit. Therefore, we can assume that he does not think PP could technically be town.
Therefore, Ircher has a heavy scumread on PenguinPower.

No, I had a null read to begin with Wheme. I saw some things that tipped me towards a weak townlean there. I also had a fairly null stance on Penguin as well. I had yet to see anything that tipped me towards a townread there. That doesn't mean I had a heavy scumread on Penguin. Please stop misconstruing my stances.

[Ircher]

I got to the bit where he heavily scum reads him.
What's so bad about it?

two pages ago he was incredibly uncertain
now he not only has a strong scumread on PenguinPower, but he has also expressed a rather heavy scumread on WhemeStar, when his opinion of Wheme only improved

so its like
page x:
i am uncertain about my reads here

*wheme gets townier*
page y (y=x+2):
wheme is almost certainly scum
PP is certainly scum

it makes no sense and it feels like he's jumping around here, trying to get on wagons with growing momentum- there's no continuity behind his reads

The only person I stated a heavy scumread on was Fitz/Titus.

[Ircher]

what does context have to do with not being able to see a player as town?

Again, you are misrepresenting my reads. Just because I don't townread a player doesn't mean I scumread them.

I have a high number of townreads though, so that makes my nullreads to be the most likely ones to be scum from my PoV via PoE. That doesn't necessarily mean I heavily scumread them.

[MarioManiac4]

ahhhh i don't get it
if you explicitly say that you cannot see PP as town
how does that

not

mean you have a hard scumread on him

[BigYoshiFan]

Ircher is basically saying what I thought he meant at first, so I'm just gonna avoid confusing myself here.

[Gamma Emerald]

mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it

I've said I think Fitz is scum. People are just scared to lynch potential watcher

Ew

[Gamma Emerald]

We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

if you can't see play as coming from town, it has to be scum right?

I don't think you get it

[MortFeld]

mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it

I've said I think Fitz is scum. People are just scared to lynch potential watcher

Ew

We because I'm wrong or?

[MortFeld]

Ew*

[Gamma Emerald]

You took that way out of context

[MarioManiac4]

can someone explain this to me like i'm 4

[Kelvin Smith]

Not contributing right now, because things to do today. Just skimming and saw this"

And, I'm pretty sure RayFrost didn't replace Grey, and I have yet to see anything from Frost that makes me lean town there.

What the hell are you talking about? Who do you think he replaced then? It's super easy to verify that he did, in fact, replace Grey.

[Gamma Emerald]

MM4 said "this is worse than what Titus did by a lot"
Mort: "Titusslot is scumz"

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: RayFrost

[Gamma Emerald]

Why

[MMM]

VOTE: RayFrost

And with this post I have lost all understanding of the game I have gained since my last reads list.

[MortFeld]

MM4 why do you think grey was scum

[MortFeld]

MM4 said "this is worse than what Titus did by a lot"
Mort: "Titusslot is scumz"

No

[MortFeld]

I think Titus was scum because the way she pushed me was very bad. That's about it. I have barely read fitz' posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Titus was scum because the way she pushed me was very bad. That's about it. I have barely read fitz' posts.

cut the tunnel vision bro