Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[Kelvin Smith]

Ray is town?

I wouldn't be so sure of that...

[PenguinPower]

Sure, but not until Monday. I'm pretty much V/La on weekends.

I mean, should be pretty easy for you given how you've posted about me...but yeah, I will.

[Kelvin Smith]

Also I now see why Kelvin wants to consolidate so badly.

Sorry for helping to derail.

Actually, I want to thank you for derailing that. I'm actually getting some pretty interesting reads as a result. It's primarily in my gut, but I feel like I'm starting to get a better picture of this game as a result of it being dragged out.

[BigYoshiFan]

Sure, but not until Monday. I'm pretty much V/La on weekends.

I mean, should be pretty easy for you given how you've posted about me...but yeah, I will.

Well, more importantly, I want to hear you explain the importance of the posts I've requested. Monday is cutting it close, but alright.

[BigYoshiFan]

More on Gamma and Ray's case tomorrow. I want Gamma to post his cases and I'll look through his ISO tomorrow, but Ray's use of the word "reactionary" to describe his play has intrigued me. The evidence he used is already influencing my read. Also, it didn't take me 30 minutes to comprehend, which I REALLY appreciate.

[RayFrost]

Where in Japan? I have family in Akatsuka.

I live in Nagoya.

[Kelvin Smith]

@Mod: Has TwoFace been prodded? He hasn't been around for quite a while.

I think now is about the time to achieve a lynch.

For me, my lynch pool is Wheme, PP, or possibly Ray.

I know people are feeling pretty good about Ray right now, but I'm not. I don't think I'm feeling bad enough about him to condone a lynch today, but I want to keep an eye on him. No matter what, I don't think we should let the game fall into his pace.

Wheme is one I'm still really not sure on. There are bits that feel like they are scum-motivated, but I something in my gut says says town. I mostly just support the lynch so that we'll have fewer claims.

PP still feels like a decent target to me, but I don't like the idea of more claims.

[RayFrost]

Sure, that's a great policy, in theory. In practice, it means you mislynch people because they have a suboptimal playstyle.

If you don't want to get lynched for seeming like mafia (aka playing badly), learn how to seem like town (aka play better). Harsh? Yes. True? Yes.

Ray is town?

I wouldn't be so sure of that...

Are you going to follow up on this or is this a one-off comment?

Do you have anything to actually say about what I said RE: Gamma Emerald?

P-edit: I see you saying you don't feel good about me and are worried about the game falling into my pace.

Is your distrust of me caused by the fact I'm being assertive or by the fact that my posting is actually

suspicious

in some way? Question me if you have questions.

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda like Ray's posts, though I did note he tipped his hand on his scumread of me before he caught up. I've seen this action a couple of times but I have no idea how it relates to alignment.

[RayFrost]

RayFrost's posting currently is making me feel better about the slot.

While I appreciate you and other people reading me as more town, I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about what you actually have to say about what I said about Gamma Emerald.

And the interaction between me and him that happened after.

Give me actual

thoughts

.

P-edit: Gamma, I had read through page like 30 when I made that comment about having a scum read on you. And I felt suspicious of you as far back as page like... 10? So yeah.

[Ircher]

RayFrost's posting currently is making me feel better about the slot.

RayFrost made you more confident Gamma is town?

No, i meant better about RayFrist's slot.

[Ircher]

I'll give "actual thoughts" later. Maybe tommorrow evening.

[Kelvin Smith]

Sure, that's a great policy, in theory. In practice, it means you mislynch people because they have a suboptimal playstyle.

If you don't want to get lynched for seeming like mafia (aka playing badly), learn how to seem like town (aka play better). Harsh? Yes. True? Yes.

True, yes. But the responsibility doesn't lie solely on the poor player. It's the responsibility of better players to draw out quality play from poor players. If they don't, then the good players just as likely to mislynch bad town as they are to lynch bad scum. I believe that putting the onus entirely on weaker players to "git gud" is short-sighted and anti-town.

Ray is town?

I wouldn't be so sure of that...

Are you going to follow up on this or is this a one-off comment?

I wasn't particularly planning on it, but I guess I might as well. You're giving me a bad vibe. The things you are saying aren't that different from what other people have said, but they feel much more calculated and predatory.

Do you have anything to actually say about what I said RE: Gamma Emerald?

Yeah, I think it felt like an opportunistic attack on a player that you perceive as an easy target.

P-edit: I see you saying you don't feel good about me and are worried about the game falling into my pace.

Is your distrust of me caused by the fact I'm being assertive or by the fact that my posting is actually

suspicious

in some way? Question me if you have questions.

Nah, being assertive isn't the issue. It's that the content of your posts feels super sketchy. I mean, it's obviously just my own perspective, but my interaction with Gamma felt pretty genuine and I got a strong feeling of town-mindedness from him. You instead chose to pick on it as only being active when pressured. Admittedly, that was my read on him at first, but seeing his posts now, I just don't see it. My intuition tells me that he's town and you are predatory scum. But I'm grounded enough to know that my intuition can be wrong, so I'd rather that you were watched and everyone be put on their guard, rather than outright lynching you here.

I've seen charismatic scum. I've

been

charismatic scum. That's what you strike me as right now, so I think it would dangerous to let the town fall into your pace. And I had to say it because with you around, I'm much more worried about dying at night.

[MMM]

Ray's GE case might be legit.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ray's GE case might be legit.

Do you agree tho

[MarioManiac4]

yo guys
I wanted my RF vote to get content, since really it's mostly an empty slot and shouldn't have had too much resistance- so I could look for people who were reacting awkwardly
but RF decided to do things so it didn't work out
UNVOTE:

[MarioManiac4]

like
rayfrost isn't a shitty vote for today
he and -grey- are more than capable of producing content that looks somewhat like hunting
but i don't think it's the best vote either.

[Gamma Emerald]

Have you seen RF play?

[MarioManiac4]

Have you seen RF play?

no but pretty much every non-newbie can post content like that
what i'm trying to say is that after thinking about it grey wasn't really all that town + you're all getting ahead of yourselves with the frost read

[RayFrost]

MM4 are you actually going to reply to the content that I posted or are you just going to lazily discredit it as completely unindicative of my alignment because I'm "not new" and therefore nothing I do is really believable because oh man it could all just be a tricksy skillful play and therefore not even something that you need to give a real response to

[RayFrost]

Because, from the way I see, what you're doing right now is going "RayFrost posted actual scumhunting content and this actually makes me feel okay about lynching him because he's good enough to do that regardless of alignment"

Someone is being productive and your response is "yeah seems like an okay lynch"

All this mutter from you and kelvin about "it's so suspicious how convincing rayfrost is" bothers me significantly. Because it's a

nonsense

argument. "Charismatic" is not an adjective that has an alignment.

If I knew you guys were scum, I could quote your behavior here as the perfect example of "scum trying their best to discredit someone town without actually trying to push the case because they don't have anything to work with"

[RayFrost]

I wasn't particularly planning on it, but I guess I might as well. You're giving me a bad vibe. The things you are saying aren't that different from what other people have said, but they feel much more calculated and predatory.

Can you point out the things I've said that are a repeat of something someone else has said?

Do you have anything to actually say about what I said RE: Gamma Emerald?

Yeah, I think it felt like an opportunistic attack on a player that you perceive as an easy target.

Okay. How is he an easy target? What about this is favorable to me over taking the easy path of pushing the current highest wagon (the one on whemestar) to completion? Several people have expressed town-reads on Gamma Emerald, there have been almost no people that actually

oppose

the whemestar lynch so much as preferring a different one.

Nah, being assertive isn't the issue. It's that the content of your posts feels super sketchy. I mean, it's obviously just my own perspective, but my interaction with Gamma felt pretty genuine and I got a strong feeling of town-mindedness from him. You instead chose to pick on it as only being active when pressured. Admittedly, that was my read on him at first, but seeing his posts now, I just don't see it. My intuition tells me that he's town and you are predatory scum. But I'm grounded enough to know that my intuition can be wrong, so I'd rather that you were watched and everyone be put on their guard, rather than outright lynching you here.

I've seen charismatic scum. I've

been

charismatic scum. That's what you strike me as right now, so I think it would dangerous to let the town fall into your pace. And I had to say it because with you around, I'm much more worried about dying at night.

What about my posting makes you think my charismatic nature is indicative of me being scum rather than town? Or is my charisma completely separate and just a fact that accompanies your belief that I'm scum?

Are you saying that you thought the same things I did and then changed your mind seeing his responses

after

what I posted?

And why would my being in the game make you feel worried about dying at night? You've been overly focused on the night phase and the shots that are going to go down and trying to control what happens there. Just stop. Every post you make about this does nothing to serve the town. It is incredibly anti-town to be vocally expressing your thoughts re: the night game as it gives more information to the informed minority (scum) than it does to the uninformed majority (town).

[Kelvin Smith]

All this mutter from you and kelvin about "it's so suspicious how convincing rayfrost is" bothers me significantly. Because it's a

nonsense

argument. "Charismatic" is not an adjective that has an alignment.

That's not what I said. Your argument isn't convincing to me and that's my whole point. If I thought it was a sound argument, regardless of my alignment, I'd be voting Gamma right now. I don't, so I'm not. And furthermore, I never said that charismatic is an adjective that has an alignment. I'm saying you read like charismatic scum to me, as opposed to charismatic town.

If I knew you guys were scum, I could quote your behavior here as the perfect example of "scum trying their best to discredit someone town without actually trying to push the case because they don't have anything to work with"

Funny, because if I knew you were scum, I could quote your behavior here as the perfect example of "scum getting mad about 'getting caught for the wrong reason.'"

Also, what would you call it if you knew Mario or I were town?

[MarioManiac4]

im not discrediting crap lmao

[RayFrost]

Since you kids all want to do meta reads, I should point out that I have a slightly out of date wiki page about me that was at one point managed by someone who made an account named RayFrostWikiManager.

I will present to you the two best scum games I have ever played, by my reckoning. Both of them losses, by the way.
Exhibit A

Exhibit B

I don't have any stellar town play to reference, in my opinion.

Note that I'm a far calmer and mature person than I was 6 years ago. And I also have not played a game of mafia in a long time because the last time I did I had the fun of having literally every single one of my reads get shot down by everyone in the game with the excuse of "it's their meta, so you're wrong." One might imagine how demotivating that is.