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Post Post #3150 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:28 pm

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 3136, Kelvin Smith wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 3123, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3114, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 3052, Infinity 324 wrote:-- Why does he townread the players who are playing pro-town and scumread the lurkers/anti-town players? Why does he go through this whole long analysis of fro99er/alisae only to end up with very simplistic/weak reasons? Why is firebringer read scum while the explanation says its anti-town but not scummy?

These don't seem like genuine reads, it seems like hikari started with certain things he could point to at AI and then stretched to fill in the spots.
It's a gross oversimplification to say that I townread pro-town and scumread lurkers/anti-town players. The players I scumread have tended to be anti-town, while the townreads tended to be pro-town, but that's clearly not the extent of my reasoning.

I don't think the reasons for my Frog/Ali analysis were simplistic or weak. I closely analyzed the two of them and came to the conclusion that based on their interactions, it was very unlikely they were scum. The lengthy analysis was necessary to fully articulate what I was seeing.

I said that Fire
could be
scum coasting. On the whole, he leaned more scum than town.

These
were
genuine reads obtained from about 24 hours of labor over a 48 hour period. I didn't stretch for a damn thing, I just carefully analyzed everything I saw, came to the conclusions that made the most sense to me, and articulated my thought process.
Not saying that your reasoning is based on pro-town/anti-town but that's how your reads ended up.

Wrt frog and alisae, I don't see anything that's not in the tl;dr that actually influenced your read. The weak and superficial part is a matter of opinion, I get that, but are you really confident in the reasoning of "frogger town because I don't think he'd gambit as scum" and "alisae town because I don't think he could manipulate frogger" especially given how often town gets reads wrong? Something is off about that whole thing.

Wrt fire, I don't see you point out a single thing you do that's scummy. As you said, his play is anti-town which is different from scummy.

I don't think Ali or Keyser were particularly pro-town and implosion was primarily a lurker. There's really not even any reasonable way I can respond to this. Yeah, that's how my reads ended up. What of it though? Like, how is that a relevant observation?

Then I guess I did a good job of making the tl;dr then, didn't I? The whole point was to summarize it for those who don't care for reading long posts (some people flat out refuse to read walls). The long version was me pointing out examples of what lead me to believe certain things about both players, in hopes that other people who read it might come to similar conclusions. As for my confidence, it's certainly not ironclad (I've been wrong before and I could be wrong again), but this is a game of intuition. And my intuition told me that it would have been hard for either to trick each other and everybody else.

Regarding Fire, his vibe was that of scum to me. Again, it's not that it was a hard scum read and his play was more anti-town than scummy, but the combination of traits certainly pointed to it as a possibility. What is your contention here? That it's unnatural to look at his activity and think that he could be scum?


~ Replaced spoiler. ~
To the first point-- you're not supposed to be able to respond, but it's still quite a coincidence if you're town.

Wrt frogger/alisae, I saw
literally nothing
outside of the tl;dr that contributed to the final read. The long version is a summary of what happened and some of your thoughts along the way, and the scenarios part is just another way of saying the tl;dr. It just looks like a fake way to explain a read.

My contention wrt fire is that you said nothing in the spoiler that was scummy from him. If it's a vibe, I don't know why you didn't just say that.
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Post Post #3151 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:35 pm

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In post 3126, Tammy wrote:No, i still think Titus is very likely to be scum. I was hoping if she was actually town that she would do something today that would help me see that. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my suspicions.

If you have asked me anything else, I'm sorry I missed it. I've been trying to get these grades finalized and have been kind of jumping in when I'm taking a quick break from grading, so if I missed something please ask me again.
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Post Post #3152 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:36 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3147, Firebringer wrote:Its weird how many people i am townreading for scumreading me.
You frankly shouldn't. You're obvtown. So is infinity.
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Post Post #3153 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:37 pm

Post by Infinity 324 »

Titus are you really arrogant enough to think that the majority of the town, most of whom know nacho well, including tammy who knows him incredibly well, are all wrong on the read?
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Post Post #3154 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:38 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3130, Firebringer wrote:TITUS COME IN HERE. I NEED YOUR HELP!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Hi. You don't need my help. Tonal reading and hypocricsy signs are really showing the answer here. I just feel defeated that no one will actually do it.
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Post Post #3155 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:39 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3153, Infinity 324 wrote:Titus are you really arrogant enough to think that the majority of the town, most of whom know nacho well, including tammy who knows him incredibly well, are all wrong on the read?
Who is the majority of town you speak of?

Second, confidence not arrogance. Nacho still hasn't sorted anyone and is coastong while we rip our heads off.
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Post Post #3156 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:39 pm

Post by Titus »

Town =/= correct.
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Post Post #3157 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:39 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 3152, Titus wrote:
In post 3147, Firebringer wrote:Its weird how many people i am townreading for scumreading me.
You frankly shouldn't. You're obvtown. So is infinity.
You know Titus, if you are scum this is your way of incriminating me lol.
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his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
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His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #3158 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:40 pm

Post by Titus »

Ari might be active enough to be not scum now.
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Post Post #3159 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3157, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3152, Titus wrote:
In post 3147, Firebringer wrote:Its weird how many people i am townreading for scumreading me.
You frankly shouldn't. You're obvtown. So is infinity.
You know Titus, if you are scum this is your way of incriminating me lol.
You said you needed my help. I'm here, I'm not dealing with this insinuating crap.
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Post Post #3160 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 3158, Titus wrote:Ari might be active enough to be not scum now.
Yup!
I might just be! :)
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Post Post #3161 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 3159, Titus wrote:You said you needed my help. I'm here, I'm not dealing with this insinuating crap.
luv u *hugs Titus*
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his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
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His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #3162 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:43 pm

Post by Titus »

VOTE: Gin

If I will die, I will at least resort you. I probably should fight more so town has a shot of maybe lynching nacho on day 50 but my give a fuck is low.
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Post Post #3163 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:44 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3161, Firebringer wrote:
In post 3159, Titus wrote:You said you needed my help. I'm here, I'm not dealing with this insinuating crap.
luv u *hugs Titus*
*hugs Fire*
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The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #3164 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 3155, Titus wrote:
In post 3153, Infinity 324 wrote:Titus are you really arrogant enough to think that the majority of the town, most of whom know nacho well, including tammy who knows him incredibly well, are all wrong on the read?
Who is the majority of town you speak of?

Second, confidence not arrogance. Nacho still hasn't sorted anyone and is coastong while we rip our heads off.
Me, gin, tammy, I assume ari as well. Probably other people too
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Post Post #3165 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:55 pm

Post by Infinity 324 »

I also don't like how you can suddenly read me right away now when you've misread me quite a few times in the past.

There's some paranoia missing in your reads here.
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Post Post #3166 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:07 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3165, Infinity 324 wrote:I also don't like how you can suddenly read me right away now when you've misread me quite a few times in the past.

There's some paranoia missing in your reads here.
Nah for anyone familiar with you from accounting mafia there really isn't needing anyway, add in Frogger obvious town
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Post Post #3167 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:08 pm

Post by Kelvin Smith »

Spoiler: Regarding Townblock
In post 3148, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 3145, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 3127, Aristophanes wrote:Page 80 actually isn't too bad to catch up from, especially if you have some of Pg 2 under your belt already. But okay, if this is how you want to jump into it!

Why do you think of the Townblock that has developed?
I take too long to read. And the game keeps moving quickly. It's like a hydra: every time I read one page, two more take its place. On top of that, my responses really appear to be falling on mostly deaf ears, so rather than living in the past, I feel like I need to start working proactively in the present.

I'm sorry, I'm unfamiliar with the term "townblock." Could you explain it to me?
Understood. I totally get the pain of the catchup! Sorry if I sound like an ass about it! :)

Townblock is basically a grouping of town who townread each other and work as a unit. Right now Tammy, Nacho, Gin, Infinity, SAD, and myself, with Desperado as a strong maybe, are all fairly certain we are town together.

What do you think of this group? Do you have any reservations about any of the members? Do you think that we are a strong, cohesive, Town unit that can be trusted? Do you think we are foolish for assuming we can read each other well enough to do this?
If love to know! :)
Nah, you don't. It's not totally unreasonable to expect me to read the game when so many other people seem to be able to.

As for the townblock, I think that trust and cohesion are an important part of getting things done. But in a game build around deception, that trust needs to be tempered with skepticism. Titus wrote a good article about this sort of idea (which is another reason I think she's scum) and I very much agreed that town cohesion is a very good thing. I feel fairly good about most of the group.

I've liked Gin for a long time now and nothing I've seen from him so far has led me to believe he isn't town. I believe he's going to be an important player for getting things done.

My interactions with Tammy and her interactions with Titus that I have seen make me feel very good about her as town. So far, I feel she has shown good judgment and I feel that she's a good core for the town.

I may have missed a lot from Nacho during the end of Day 1, because I don't recall seeing much from him after a certain point, but I defer to Tammy's judgment regarding him as town. What I have seen from him, he's a good mediator and I think that he will prove valuable in keeping the townblock from getting into petty squabbles. If misunderstandings arise, I expect he can fix them.

Infinity has mostly been focused on me, so I can't really speak to his judgment, since I really don't see any degree of validity to the points he's made. I still need to interact with him more on his case against me though to see if I think his tunneling on me is confirmation bias at play or if it feels like scum motivation. I felt good about Frog, so I'm inclined to believe the former. Especially since, like Keyser, he got his read early on in the read through and has stuck with it the whole time.

SAD gives me the feeling that I'm being buddied. Like, I'm in pretty much every scum pool and this guy has me ranked as his #2 town? I fucking know I'm town and even I think that's a stretch. Tammy similarly pointed out reasons that she thought I was town or why cases against me were bad, but she tempered it with expectations of content and her own suspicions (which are fair, given my shit play thus far). I felt that Boon was town, but my biggest reason for that was that he was force-replaced, which I generally don't think would happen to scum faking anger. But SAD's absolute defense of me rubs me the wrong way. As I've said in the past though, I'm very sensitive to someone trying to buddy me due to my past with Nacho, so that may just be an overreaction on my part.

People trust Desperado? Why? Did I miss something? I thought everyone thought Ali was scum, so that's surprising. I'm not sure about his judgment at all, so I don't know if he adds any value to the townblock.

I'm not too sure about your judgment, since I think most of your activity has been during parts I haven't read. But people I like tend to townread you and when I'm behind, the best I can really do is sheep them until I get a better picture of you myself.
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Post Post #3168 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:08 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3164, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 3155, Titus wrote:
In post 3153, Infinity 324 wrote:Titus are you really arrogant enough to think that the majority of the town, most of whom know nacho well, including tammy who knows him incredibly well, are all wrong on the read?
Who is the majority of town you speak of?

Second, confidence not arrogance. Nacho still hasn't sorted anyone and is coastong while we rip our heads off.
Me, gin, tammy, I assume ari as well. Probably other people too
Yeah i tr you and tammy. Not so sure on the others.

Quantity also doesn't make a read right.

Remember when I compromised away from you in accounting?
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Post Post #3169 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 3167, Kelvin Smith wrote:People trust Desperado? Why? Did I miss something?
Scum are basically just attacking me in lieu of scumhunting. I was voting Desperado, therefore he's trustworthy. There's no reason behind his place as he hasn't engaged.
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Post Post #3170 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:11 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 3151, Titus wrote:
In post 3126, Tammy wrote:No, i still think Titus is very likely to be scum. I was hoping if she was actually town that she would do something today that would help me see that. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my suspicions.

If you have asked me anything else, I'm sorry I missed it. I've been trying to get these grades finalized and have been kind of jumping in when I'm taking a quick break from grading, so if I missed something please ask me again.
Nothing will help you see that you're wrong on me other than lying to you and claiming Nacho's town when he isn't.
Image

I'm open to being wrong on you I've made that very clear, but you've not shown me that and it has nothing to do with your bad read on Nacho. You can keep calling him scum when he isn't, but that's not going to make him scum.

You can also discredit my read all you want and you can say he's just coasting, but there are several people in this game who've seen me doubt and scum read a nacho that was barely present and not doing the things he should be doing. This is not an affinity read, this is not a I'm letting nacho get by read, this is a I know what town nacho looks like and he's town read.
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Post Post #3171 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:11 pm

Post by Titus »

Leon is shitting away my tr there
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Post Post #3172 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:13 pm

Post by Titus »

Spoiler:
In post 3170, Tammy wrote:
In post 3151, Titus wrote:
In post 3126, Tammy wrote:No, i still think Titus is very likely to be scum. I was hoping if she was actually town that she would do something today that would help me see that. So far, I haven't seen anything to change my suspicions.

If you have asked me anything else, I'm sorry I missed it. I've been trying to get these grades finalized and have been kind of jumping in when I'm taking a quick break from grading, so if I missed something please ask me again.
Nothing will help you see that you're wrong on me other than lying to you and claiming Nacho's town when he isn't.
Image

I'm open to being wrong on you I've made that very clear, but you've not shown me that and it has nothing to do with your bad read on Nacho. You can keep calling him scum when he isn't, but that's not going to make him scum.

You can also discredit my read all you want and you can say he's just coasting, but there are several people in this game who've seen me doubt and scum read a nacho that was barely present and not doing the things he should be doing. This is not an affinity read, this is not a I'm letting nacho get by read, this is a I know what town nacho looks like and he's town read.


Great, then I will find his partners and work around you when I feel like it.

You pushed through a lynch in my townblock yesterday and you still basically won't listen and I know it so I am going to try to work with Infinity and Fire. Probably more tomorrow.
Last edited by nancy on Sat May 13, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Desperado
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Post Post #3173 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:14 pm

Post by Desperado »

at this rate i might not even have to read the game
;)
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Tammy
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Post Post #3174 (ISO) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Post by Tammy »

What lynch did I push through yesterday?
I am in the top 90% of scumhunters onsite!

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