LoL eSports Discussion

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm from Europe, but I'm all for it seeing them burn at MSI again. This team is a fucking joke and should just replace all but Zven and Perkz. These 'korean imports' have been nothing but a liability in international events and I think the lack of communication between Trick and mithy seems abysmal to the point where mithy just keeps getting caught out.

I kinda want a semi's of SKT vs GAM (because that shit is entertaining) and WE vs FW so the west can just sob together instead of the HaHaa Na > EU bs

[zoraster]

[Oversoul]

Does that loss mean TsM is out?

[zoraster]

No. It means that they likely play a tiebreaker against flashwolves assuming fw closes this out

It does mean they'll get skt in the finals if they win but at least they preserve NAs first seed at worlds

[zoraster]

With that the "fucking joke of a team" will be the third seed and face WE for a chance to make semis.

[PJ.]

stream is flooded with "bye NA" and koncha emotes.

[zoraster]

Midlane Lucian working out pretty well against faker

[pickemgenius]

both g2 and tsm are fucking jokes of teams though.

I legitimately think neither has any idea how to play the game league of legends at an acceptable level(internationally)

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

^ this

Lets not pretend G2 showed anything more then protect the carry comps aiming for lategame. Sure, TSM showed equal bad drafts today but both were interchangable regarding potential results

[zoraster]

"Acceptable level"? G2 is the third seed. I put them as a fairly heavy underdog against WE, but it's not unthinkable that they take the series as WE has some pretty glaring weaknesses too. G2's choice of draft is pretty one-dimensional and it leaves them with a fairly ugly majority of the game, but when you're in a tournament like this and you're playing 2 games a day for 5 days, eventually you want to stick with the thing that gets to victories.

TSM's result was disappointing for them and as I said before they looked pretty flat at the tournament. But it's not like they didn't compete. They beat every team at the tournament other than SKT.

I don't know. This is like listening to sports talk radio in every city in the world.

[Iecerint]

Zora so smart

[Voidedmafia]

both g2 and tsm are fucking jokes of teams though.

I legitimately think neither has any idea how to play the game league of legends at an acceptable level(internationally)

This so much. And people think I'm overly salty when I say this was, is and will be typical of NA teams internationally (although, to be fair I can only say this about TSM right now and not any other team, but I wouldn't be surprised).

They proved to be incompetent at closing out games or making smart decisions, or even having proper warding (team-wide, almost) and invades (Mainly Sven in particular, though he thankfully rarely did that after D2). This last game against G2 was easily winnable if they actually warded properly, and the 1st game shouldn't have even come to a base-race-like scenario because TSM was so far ahead. And they've apparently lost how to play well from behind (although I don't know if its that or if teams like FW are just that good at slowly/quickly steamrolling leads, or a mix of both).

Zor, they may have been competitive, but just being competitive doesn't get you a berth to the knockout stage, does it? Just "being competitive" doesn't mean shit anymore if you can't pair the two together. And I'd be perfectly fine with them just advancing past groups because they'd either face SKT which no one should ever believe TSM could beat in a series or a single match, or probably have a respectable series against WE or whoever.

TSM (and I suppose arguably) G2 are big fish in small ponds in their home regions, but the international ocean is still too big. And TSM, at least, seems to show no signs of being able to grow into being a contender rather than being eaten alive out there. Sure, it sounds like sports radio talk, but it's not like we're entirely wrong here, are we?

[PJ.]

I don't know. This is like listening to sports talk radio in every city in the world.

Yeah, I'm ready for when Harden puts up 30.2 8 11 stat lines next year and for everyone to forgot that they spent a week in May saying he was a bum and that he was done.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't know. This is like listening to sports talk radio in every city in the world.

Yeah, I'm ready for when Harden puts up 30.2 8 11 stat lines next year and for everyone to forgot that they spent a week in May saying he was a bum and that he was done.

TSM had their chance this week, and they didn't pull it off. And they can't try again until Worlds (because I know they'll be there, by winning Summer if not by points), so they're still in the "bum" phase, I suppose. Probably won't be "done" until Bjergsen leaves the team, and maybe Hauntzer (who was pretty much the only one who played well this entire tourney, with maybe Biofrost).

[zoraster]

Zor, they may have been competitive, but just being competitive doesn't get you a berth to the knockout stage, does it?

It does. Just not all the time. CLG made Top-2 last year. MSI is such a short tournament that has a healthy dose of randomness involved. If you're just competitive, sometimes you'll fail to make it out of groups and other times you'll find yourself with the right form at the right time and lose to SKT in the finals.

Hell, SKT last year was merely "competitive" at MSI last year. They were the number 4 seed coming out of groups.

[Randomnamechange]

didn't EDG win MSI last year?

[zoraster]

no. RNG was the chinese team and lost to SKT in the semis after having the best record (the same as SKT's, 8-2) in the group stage. CLG beat Flashwolves in their semi.

[Randomnamechange]

must have been the year before then that EDG won.

[zoraster]

yeah. EDG beat SKT in 2015's finals, 3-2. Fnatic lost to SKT 3-2 as well.

[Voidedmafia]

So...what you're saying is just "being competitve" doesn't really mean shit-all? Because what I'm reading in that is that being competitive, while I agree is integral to advancing (obviously you're not gonna get to advance if you can't even beat a single team in any way), is nowhere near as important as some other factors that TSM clearly didn't have this time around.

P-EDIT: EDG, SKT, and now SKT again, for all three MSIs that have happened again. Unless FW somehow pulls out a miracle set.

[zoraster]

Being competitive means being able to win some significant portion of games against the competition. Sometimes that'll have you advance to the finals. Sometimes that'll have you go out in the group stages.

Look, if to enjoy things you have to have TSM always be one of the top two teams in a tournament, then you probably should stop watching now. If you want there to be a chance that TSM has a magical tournament where they make it to the semi finals or even finals, I think that's still within the realm of possibility. I don't think that's a LARGE possibility with the current team composition, but it's not impossible.

Tournament form is a thing. Teams react to patch changes differently. CLG's MSI and spring split in 2016 was in no small part because they were just better than the international competition at lane swaps.

So what do you do as a team? You put yourself in the best position to potentially have a good run.

And that's why being competitive matters. Because even where TSM was obviously not in good form for the tournament they still were in a position to win. If they improve things and other factors go their way, sure they could do better. I think C9's team has the higher ceiling in international play, but I don't see a reason TSM COULDN'T do well if everything fell their way.

---
For the record, I'm not a TSM fan except on the world stage.

[Voidedmafia]

Look, if to enjoy things you have to have TSM always be one of the top two teams in a tournament, then you probably should stop watching now. If you want there to be a chance that TSM has a magical tournament where they make it to the semi finals or even finals, I think that's still within the realm of possibility. I don't think that's a LARGE possibility with the current team composition, but it's not impossible.

Ha, no. NA as a whole is nowhere near the point of being consistently in the top 2 teams. I have no illusions about that, though I think being in the top 8 has been within reach for awhile. I just have the same expectations that TSM has (with maybe more tempered beliefs on results; as much as I want TSM to win Worlds, etc, just getting to semis would be enough at this point, or even quarters at Worlds), and I'm disappointed this time around because I just don't feel like TSM played any sort of game worth being happy about in 8 of their 10 games. Technically 6 of 10 because SKT pretty much made fools of everyone except FW twice despite some early game hardships, but.

[Voidedmafia]

Like, they broke out of groups for the first time in 2014 (without needing a bye to get there like with S2), as did C9. That was the first time two NA teams did so since S1, although I have no idea how that system even worked so I don't really put much into that little claim. However much I might rag on C9 getting by to quarters in last year's worlds on pure dumb luck, it was still good to see at least one team break groups again. But I want TSM to do it again, and again, and again, along with maybe this year all three NA teams make it to quarters. Once we start making it to quarters, like, 2-3 years in a row (or maybe just 2 years of breaking out of groups, to include MSI), then I'll probably start pushing for making semis. And then when semi appearances at Worlds get to be common, then I seek Finals. And hope that by this point Korea in general isn't some unassailable behemoth of League Esports.

[PJ.]

Just stop watching.

[Nexus]

i did and i'm much happier.