Large Normal 203 | Scale of the Universe - Finally Over

[Tywin Lannister]

Also would be more than ok to lynch CptPicard. His hoping for a modkill while not wanting to actually lynch me is scum motivation. That's not coming from a townie. It just isn't. He didnt care to even wait for a CC before trying to shade me, and him HOPING for a modkill, but being too afraid to actually lynch me shows everything you need to see. He's scum.

Waffles I'd also lynch. Priscilla may just be town that asks a billion questions, points things out, then does those exact same things herself without even realizing. I think scum Priscla would know better, since they aren't dumb. Waffles, on the other hand, has done nothing but hop on other people's pushes, throws out some buzzwords he doesnt understand, and didnt care to think about what he's doing. Actually, maybe he is town for this. I'm not sure.

Gamma/CptPicard/Wraith are my scum reads at this point.

[Tywin Lannister]

Wraith is a gut read, but he's still a SR. Need to iso him I guess, except he's purposely been lurking. That's anti town. Boonskies gave reasons for him lurking. Wraith did not.

[Nosferatu]

WTF
That claim is absolutely ridiculous. If someone has a non standard role step forward since that's not normal I'm certain.
UNVOTE:

It's a normal role. Not grey or whitelisted or whatever.

opps forgot that scum won't claim a pr. my bad :/

lmaooo

I'm a Town One-Guilty Cop.

I may target one player per night phase. I receive one of these results: Innocent, Guilty or No result. If i receive a Guilty result, i can't use the ability again.

If you were telling the truth, you should be modkilled right now. So I don't buy it.

Don't:

• Don't discuss ongoing games.
  
• Don't copy, quote or screenshot your role PM
  , mod communications or anything that isn't public.

What has Nos done that Waffles has not?

What are you even asking here by the way

They're different players, what are you trying to associate between them

I do agree with this though

.

nix on that.

Why nix?

I re-read it and understood the association, so I had to ixnay the hombre.

Wasn't really my plan to foster the argument further. Can't understand why you'd think that either.

It's the way you immediately jumped and said I made a Freudian slip, and your second comment about the language use which seems to follow my reasoning, but it's not at all clear what you actually think.

I took too much of a liberty with my expression then: I think that your reaction to tywin's post was reminiscent of scum overly cautious of the number of scum teams in the setup and that why you immediately responded to what you thought was a multiball slip.

I don't fully get this though. I can see a scum that knows there is a multiball twist jumping to that conclusion, but wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell if there was multiball as scum? If your team is normal sized, obviously there isn't another one. If your team feels significantly smaller than it should be, it would be obvious. This reasoning feels forced imo, but I guess I don't know how multiball works on this website so that could play a part I guess.

It's not always as simple as just looking at your team size; either team can be balanced in a way that makes up for the lack of players with powers during the night. It can be intuitive, but better safe than sorry is a common mentality among people, and I don't know Priscilla well enough to know if she would jump headfirst into the night, so I'll assume she won't; ergo she'll be looking for other scum.

his [Dunnstral] reads are clear and well reasoned

Nosferatu is scum this game

I think dunn is just operating on a different level of clarity and reasoning here that I'm just not able to pick up on.

@Everyone

Can you posts thoughts on waffles and his inability to backup one of his points? At this point his complete lack of seemingly caring how bad he looks is ironically making me think he is townier but I would like to get more experienced players' take on this

He doesn't strike me as particularly towny or scummy, but his post about voting Tywin where he named 6 reasons and 4 of them were personality traits would let me consider a wagon on him.

[Nero Cain]

Why does priscilla ask so many damn questions

its scumhunting. Why does it bother you?

[Boonskiies]

VOTE: Drum

Just an fyi, my grand entrance is coming.

[Priscila]

Sorry I overslept. Are you still here DrumBeats?

What bothers me about DrumBeats is the way that he is pushing a narrative where his scumread on RhazBash is meaningful rather than genuinely digging into the content, analyzing the reasoning behind it and providing his own as to why that reasoning comes from scum. His approach is rhetorical, and he conflates largley null behavior into something damning.

Can you please elaborate on this? From my perspective at least I was analyzing potential motives behind Rhaz's post. On day one, there's not necessarily a ton of information to go off of, but Rhaz's post stuck out to me as the worst. Sure, it could come from a town perspective, but there is high motive for scum to encourage the Gamma PL or one on Gamma's first voters. I never said Rhaz's behavior was damning or it had to come from scum - but I pointed out why it could be from scum and what a scum player's motives could be for making the moves that Rhaz is making.

Well I think the issue I have with it is how you projected a lot of motives onto him that you can't be sure about and then found him scummy for potentially having those motives. It doesn't feel genuine to me because what you picked at was one line. If RhazBash had displayed consistent behavior that showed he had this motive and tried to portray events within the narrative that he showed in that one line, and tried to get people mislynched and distance himself from the responsibility, then I think of course you should call that out and that's an excellent reason for a scumread. But to say that he has all these motives from just one line, I think that's reaching and kind of committing the same error that you accuse him of.

His point about scum adapting for the type of scumhunting in thread is simplistic and shallow, scum will already analyze their own behavior with greater foresight and worry than town. The act of aborting a bus is very basic. Gamma's mention of it is too broad to be effective. Reminding people that an established wagon manipulation technique exists on page 1 is not going to meaningfully affect whether that technique is used in a specific instance during the game.

I looked at how the post would benefit a town Gamma vs a scum Gamma. A town Gamma would get no benefit from the post because town Gamma is pointing out something that as you said is very basic. Why would it need to be pointed out then? Scum Gamma however would benefit from it by appearing to be actively analyzing the game through the basic "analysis." Scum Gamma could also use that post in the future to organically target players that did abort a bus. Granted, town players often to not benefit from everything they post, but I felt the discrepancy worth pointing out.

Okay, I can accept this logic from you, however I don't agree that it's a solid reason for a scumread and I think that you may be reading too much into possible future scenarios rather than dealing with here and now.

There is also the way that he positioned his vote on Gamma as if he knew it was coming off before long. I get the feeling that he wants to

seem to be

engaging directly and actively with content in a thoughtful way, and is taking this as a rhetorical position, rather than truly engaging with the content. The way that he continued to argue his position as he unvoted Gamma to vote RhazBash suggests to me that he does not truly feel conviction in his reads, but merely argues for their validity and postures around them.

Or that I want to look at all options and address each of them. Just because I'm voting Rhaz does not mean I am turned off by a Gamma lynch right now. This is a 10 day day phase, and I've never played anything longer than a 2-3 day phase, so I knew more options would become present throughout the day. Of course I'm going to argue my position on both of them because my stance on Gamma has yet to change, but Rhaz jumped higher in my suspicion, and Gamma was a few votes away from a majority lock. I wanted to make sure the majority wouldn't lock on Gamma before we considered other options like Rhaz.

Alright. On your HS, do people usually decide the lynch very quickly and lock it in like that?

I think that RhazBash's premature position on today's wagons feels like a genuine attempt to scumhunt that came off as surface scummy. I read the translation of that post as "there is scum in one of those that we should lynch". DrumBeats' attempt to pin it as having malicious intent is disingenuous. It is

possible

from that post that RhazBash is scum who knows that all of the early pushers of Gamma's wagon are town, but it is

equally possible

that he is simply scumhunting, therefore the post is null without greater context. DrumBeats argument is slightly more than just that RhazBash is informed, however. He argues that RhazBash is lining up lynches and putting on an act to shed responsibility. This is very stretchy. Following this, he argues that RhazBash's position that wagons should be broken down is suspicious and comes from an informed perspective. He is again attempting to twist fairly null content into scum content by drawing a narrative where that is already the case.

I don't think his reasons for voting Gamma or RhazBash have any merit and his attempts to make those reasons persuasive feels like sophistry. It's still possible that this content is coming from a reckless, overzealous townie with poor reasoning, but for now I have a scumlean on DrumBeats.

I don't believe I'm twisting anything, because again I am talking about possible motives. On day one we have no concrete information to work with, so I choose to look at what motives could be behind a post. One thing I see in both Gamma and Rhaz (much moreso in Rhaz) is setting traps. They have each presented hypothetical reasons to target somebody in the future, which largely benefits the scum moreso than the town. It is wholly possible that they are both townies who are accidentally doing this, but the "traps" they are setting, intentionally or not, are behaviors which benefit the scumteam and could potentially come from scum players. Call my reasoning poor, but I stand by it.

I think our problem so far is that we have very different ways of scumhunting and maybe some different definitions too. We should try to resolve this difference in perspective if we want to work together. When I say motives, I don't think about what possible scenarios or traps they were planning, I think about whether their intention was bad (for example, to shade) or good (for example, to sort) or such things. I can think about what they were planning too, but that comes separately for me, and it's less important in my scumhunting, because I think that usually players do not plan so far ahead with things, maybe in a general sense yes, but I don't think it becomes very specific in most cases. The bigger picture is important, and I feel that you are looking very narrowly? I will try to understand you better as we get more into the game.

[Boonskiies]

also, yeah, Tywin's role is completely normal. I wouldn't think it even takes the space of one of the two roles.

[Priscila]

I like this post - townreading Mulch rn.

Can you say what you like about it? And about your Mulch read generally?

I looked up Creature's MD and modding history and the role would make sense, thing is, Tywin has been extremely scummy.

Why do you think the role would make sense? What did you find in the history?

Haven't been reading, but I'll say I apologize for being an asshole. I'm sick and feel like shit, but I shouldn't take it out on you people, scum or not. So my bad. Same with you gamma. Sorry for calling you an idiot PL and I hope your move goes well.

Don't worry too much. Let's be friends.

But here's the deal: basic gameplay means you don't lynch a cop or a doctor claim with no CC ever on D1. Town fucked up by making their cop (yes, one guilty cop, but still) claim, but that's over with. You now need to decide how to move forward here.

I really think you claimed prematurely, but well it's done now. But of course you won't be lynched, please focus on developing your reads? You mentioned that you suspect Zach and Nero. Tell me about your reads there? What do you think about Fykus and CptPicard and WhyMafia?

@Everyone

Can you posts thoughts on waffles and his inability to backup one of his points? At this point his complete lack of seemingly caring how bad he looks is ironically making me think he is townier but I would like to get more experienced players' take on this

I'll dedicate a post to this later, but I do think that this is somewhat townie of him, yes. It's a weak reason, though, not something I would base my read on.

Gamma is hoping I say something stupid beyond this, but I won't bother to elaborate. I will just

VOTE: Gamma

Trust me, he's scum. He is this obvious, which is why he builds his town meta to be as scummy as possible. It's his only way to win as scum. He rolled scum here. I just know. Watch and see.

Please elaborate? Gamma is in my innocent pile right now.

[Priscila]

@Mod can you confirm that Tywin's role is normal?

[Boonskiies]

Pretty sure we can't ask the mod that. Somewhere it would be not fair. I don't see how it wouldn't be normal, though. It's weaker than a regular cop. Limited to 1 guilty max, which isn't really too much power. Regardless, I don't see that claim in that position coming from scum.

[Boonskiies]

Hell of a scum claim, if so, though.

[CptPicard]

1. I didnt copy/paste my role. I paraphrased. So CptPicard: Absolutely ridiculous and classless to push for a modkill. This is how people end up hating each other and becoming toxic anytime they land in games together. Classless moves like that. You should be ashamed. Get your scum win the legitimate way, or replace out.

Someone pointed this out already. I thought you'd broken the rule. I was wrong. I'm playing towards my win condition using all information and resources at my disposal.

Don't be an asshole. I'm not going anywhere, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

-

So we can't use him not being modkilled anymore as an indicator of whether or not he is telling the truth. Dang, I thought I had him lol.

Why the hell would you want him mod killed just to see if he's telling the truth. Major alarm bells.

I thought he had broken one of the most important rules in the game, and saw his lack of being modkilled as evidence as a fabricated claim. But someone pointed out I was wrong, and after taking a closer look it appears he did handwrite his claim. Definitely violating the spirit of the rule, but not the letter, so chances are he's telling the truth.

So you wanted the PR modkilled, but you don't want to lynch it? What?

As I mentioned above, I thought his lack of being modkilled was evidence he was scum. Once I figured out that I was wrong, and that regardless of alignment or truth he wouldn't get modkilled, I re-evaluated and decided to take him at his word for now. Tywin was definitely acting sketchy in my opinion, but I can't keep my vote on a cop claim with no counter.

[Boonskiies]

what's wrong with paraphrasing a role pm? how else are you supposed to claim...?

[Nero Cain]

Well, Tywin would have a normal role regardless of if what his claim is real or not. But that claim seems like it would fit normal guidelines.

[Priscila]

If people say it's normal and the moderator cannot clarify the rules then I will believe what people say.

I am not happy with how the wagons are right now. Hopefully I will have time to contribute more in the next few hours.

Boonskiies, why are you voting DrumBeats? I have some problems with the player so far that I need to resolve but I don't know if that will happen on Day 1. My focus is going to continue to be there but I don't know if I am interested in pushing that wagon seriously for now. At the moment I am considering Fykus and WhyMafia for strong candidates to be evil and will probably place my vote there soon. So far neither have received serious pressure and that worries me, because I feel they deserve it. Are you familiar with WhyMafia's meta? What do you think of his play so far?

[TheYankeeReaper]

Alright i'm back. Gonna re-read

[Wraith]

So I know that Tywin claimed some ridiculous role for a Normal.

I could catch up but I'm pretty drunk at this point like usual and that would be a lot of work, so...

When will people understand that drinking lots of alcohol is bad for your health?

Oh that's the objective

[Zachstralkita]

Hbd WRAITH

[Zachstralkita]

Claim was premature imo - can't do anything now

I'll pop back in with stuff

[SlingshotWaffles]

@Mod can you confirm that Tywin's role is normal?

I'm fairly certain that's not a thing.
If anything it'd be can he confirm if the role that was claimed normal, but I'm not even sure that's a thing.

[Mulch]

UNVOTE: Waffles

When the idiocy gets to the point that it makes more sense for town to be than scum
VOTE: Drum

I'm good on this for now

[WhyMafia]

If people say it's normal and the moderator cannot clarify the rules then I will believe what people say.

I am not happy with how the wagons are right now. Hopefully I will have time to contribute more in the next few hours.

Boonskiies, why are you voting DrumBeats? I have some problems with the player so far that I need to resolve but I don't know if that will happen on Day 1. My focus is going to continue to be there but I don't know if I am interested in pushing that wagon seriously for now. At the moment I am considering Fykus and WhyMafia for strong candidates to be evil and will probably place my vote there soon. So far neither have received serious pressure and that worries me, because I feel they deserve it. Are you familiar with WhyMafia's meta? What do you think of his play so far?

A) don't use meta
B) I'm being a hypocrite, but if you look at every single one of my completed games, I was universally scum read.
VOTE: Cpt
Don't buy him at all

[WhyMafia]

UNVOTE: Waffles

When the idiocy gets to the point that it makes more sense for town to be than scum
VOTE: Drum

I'm good on this for now

Why?

[Mulch]

Gutread. I also said this earlier...

[SlingshotWaffles]

If people say it's normal and the moderator cannot clarify the rules then I will believe what people say.

I am not happy with how the wagons are right now. Hopefully I will have time to contribute more in the next few hours.

Boonskiies, why are you voting DrumBeats? I have some problems with the player so far that I need to resolve but I don't know if that will happen on Day 1. My focus is going to continue to be there but I don't know if I am interested in pushing that wagon seriously for now. At the moment I am considering Fykus and WhyMafia for strong candidates to be evil and will probably place my vote there soon. So far neither have received serious pressure and that worries me, because I feel they deserve it. Are you familiar with WhyMafia's meta? What do you think of his play so far?

A) don't use meta
B) I'm being a hypocrite, but if you look at every single one of my completed games, I was universally scum read.
VOTE: Cpt
Don't buy him at all

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
Meta can be a very useful tool in helping catch scum if used properly.