UK Pol - #independenceday

[Albert B. Rampage]

explain further.

I'm afraid you will come after me because I offer a different viewpoint. You will mock, attack, humiliate, degrade, isolate, some of your friends or allies will physically attack, or otherwise try to make my life difficult. I have every reason to be just as afraid of you as some alt rigther that wants to kick out the ethnics. Whether its for a different skin color or different perspective, bullies are the same.

[Nexus]

Oh okay cool.

[Untrod Tripod]

I already knew that alt-right people were fueled by fear, but it's just startling for one of them to actually come out and say it

[Nexus]

So anyway, all the stories that are coming out of Manchester about people who helped is making my heart swell - a homeless man who ran to help young children has had thousands raised for him to help him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alt right are people pushing identity politics, just like the left are. Two sides of the same coin.

I hate identity politics.

[Nexus]

I don't really know what you want

[Nexus]

Or the Sikh Taxi Driver who walked children out to his cab and drove them to find their parents.

[shaft.ed]

is this just the current version of the whole "liberals are the REAL fascists" schtick?

it's a twist on that
see liberals are the problem because we prevent conservatives from being able to fix the problem. If we could only see that they had the answers to stop people from killing one another. But we're evil and hate them and wouldn't want them to get credit for making the world a better place. So we insist it remain a shit hole just to prove them wrong. And we're horrible bullies that will steal their lunch money and maybe kick them in the nads if they try to burn a cross on our lawn

[Nexus]

[Papa Zito]

What's that?

[Nexus]

The vigil in Manchester right now.

[Nexus]

"We are the many, they are the few."

[Mac]

I think we should all announce how much we hate ISIS in our next post.

I hate ISIS alot

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR: What exact solution would you have proposed that would have stopped a British citizen?

The suspect was known to British intelligence and deemed not to be an immediate threat. There needs to be change in government policy to prevent tragedies like this.

[AniX]

I see we have jogged swiftly past the "Come on, guys, we should all be on the same side" part of our program straight to "Oh, you are concerned about innocent people being attacked? WHAT ABOUT THESE ISOLATED INCIDENTS THAT EVEN IF EACH AND EVERY ONE WAS UNPROVOKED WOULD STILL PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE NUMBER OF ANTI-MUSLIM ATTACKS!?"

Whether you are alt right, progressive, conservative or liberal, you are part of a society that has certain values like freedom of religion, rule of law, freedom of speech, human rights, free enterprise. Like it or not we are living in the same space and are on the same side. You can be a bully if you want, it seems you can't understand that me or a ton of muslims that I know are more afraid of you than of alt right people who want to kick us out of our country. The message just can't get accross to you.

Can you cite any statistics on this or are you just going to continue to base your entire argument on "Well, I'M more afraid of you* and so are a bunch of nameless people I know".

*I like how you were arguing you wanted people to unite but now have decided you are going to group all leftists with violent protestors, including me even though you don't know anything about me except probably my politics (and my gimmicks, I guess).

explain further.

I'm afraid you will come after me because I offer a different viewpoint. You will mock, attack, humiliate, degrade, isolate, some of your friends or allies will physically attack, or otherwise try to make my life difficult. I have every reason to be just as afraid of you as some alt rigther that wants to kick out the ethnics. Whether its for a different skin color or different perspective, bullies are the same.

Even if bullying people is bad, bullying people for their immutable traits and their bad (sometimes hateful) opinions are are very different levels of bad.

You surely want to bully, as you define it, ISIS. You may not agree but you certainly empathize with people who want to bully Nazis, even if you disagree with who the Nazis are.

[Zachrulez]

We're due to be in England in less than 2 months and I'd be lying if I said this didn't cross my mind in a worrying way.

[Porochaz]

Regardless of whether you have a case or not, or have gone about it in the right or wrong way, now is not the time. Most of us (as in UK Scummers) have friends/family living in Manchester, and at this precise moment, posting ISIS propoganda (regardless of the intent) and arguing/insulting with people who are worried/grieving etc. is an abhorrent thing to do.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have family living in manchester as well.

[Porochaz]

Point still stands.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Point still stands.

Your people who are "grieving" are posting about salad dressing.

[Porochaz]

And?

The purpose of that is pretty clear.

[Max]

The suspect was known to British intelligence and deemed not to be an immediate threat. There needs to be change in government policy to prevent tragedies like this.

I like living in a country where people are only arrested after they commit crimes, thanks.

[LlamaFluff]

Extremism, is a dangerous thing. It does not matter if its religious, political or absolutely anything else. It targets people who feel disenfranchised and can become cult like in nature, with its members refusing to see anything wrong or flawed coming from the leaders, and people immediately dismissing any conflicting opinions as lies or attacks on their values, whether or not the other opinions are true does not matter. As they view a majority of people as trying to infringe on their beliefs, they can be more prone to aggressive and violent defense to what they see as a direct attack on them which often does not actually exist.

We see religious extremism manifest itself in such forms as ISIS, KKK, Westboro, etc. We see political extremism as the far left and far right, who will refuse to ever listen to the opposition and would rather go down with the ship than admit wrongdoing. It creates massive echo chambers within the groups who while being the vocal minority view themselves as the majority. It creates a feedback loop between groups as people say "all of group X does Y" while on the other hand we see "Group Y only sees us as X" and as both groups act on these beliefs, it "proves" they are right while the other group is wrong.

Its depressing to watch really. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all people who voted for Trump are white supremacists. Stop compartmentalizing people and equating the worst behavior of the vocal minority to what the entire group says.

[Max]

Vigil in Bury tonight. Very tasteful. Very emotional. Lots of crying.

[Max]

A friend of mine teaches at one of the schools where a teenager died. They had a really tough day and kids have apparently been leaving classes to cry all day. We had a girl commit suicide at my 6th form college and that was a similar story, I can only imagine that the coverage surrounding this is going to make it all the more difficult to get things back to normal.

I have a few mutual friends with the gay guy that died. I never met him, but gay circles in manchester are so small that it seems so surreal.

Such a giant clusterfuck. And now there's going to armed forces on the street because the numbers of police have been cut in recent years and so they need additional forces.

Campaigning resumes tomorrow and I'm going to go back to the phone banks. Life is absurd.