Newbie 1797: Space | Endgame

[esires]

Edit to complete the first paragraph of my last post:

so I am unvoting.

[Not Chara]

i'm back! for real this time. luckily there are only ten pages for me to cover.

confident right now that esires is town. no need to really go into that i think.
91 from Paul still bothers me. if he looked into the post for echoing, why didn't he find any problems with the fact that dunker voting Drixx for something that didn't happen?
the problem with Drixx is i really can't read him on day 1. it takes him a while to get going, and while nothing screams town, the actions he's taken that are pinging me are ones i could see him taking as either alignment.
skitter is a hesitant townread. posts aren't impossible from scum but i like her analysis as i said before.
Human is right in 103 about Picard's posting looking insincere. don't know what that means for Picard yet, but he's not all that new.
skitter's 109 might or might not be picking up the same thing that bothered me about Human.

if this game had daytalk i would expect dunker's posting change to have come from a buddy offering advice, but that wouldn't be happening here. it's plausible that dunker is being genuine.
Human gets their own post.
separating at the start of page 6 so i can parse this better later.

[Not Chara]

moving on:
137: the added 'someone who is

scum

' to Paul's worry about accidentally hammering bothers me. hammering too quickly can be a problem but usually it's fine, especially if it's a wagon on scum. is Paul not worried about accidentally mislynching? the 'someone who is scum' has the flair of, 'i don't want someone to think i'm planning to mislynch', to it. it could be nothing but it's the second time something specific from Paul has bothered me.
156 isn't the same reasoning for why i'm bothered about Human but i still like the analysis, and skitter.

i have a problem with so many of Human's posts i'm now wondering if i'm biased and they would just come off as incredibly scummy no matter what.
183, i don't like. not something i'd expect to see from an IC to a new player. calling the nickname comment buddying is really reaching, as is going straight to 'misrep' and the belief that Dunker has put his posting together like this to discredit Drixx. these issues could have been addressed without the implication that dunker is wrong about Drixx's play on purpose. i get he hit a pet peeve of yours but this game is also about learning, even if that's second to winning.
186: is better from Paul. it actively invites heat from Drixx. 196 would also be weird from new scum.
don't like dunker's 208.

slots i'm looking at are Human, dunker, Picard, and Drixx. other 4 are townreads.

[Dunkerdoodles]

sorry drixx, i thought copy pasting was the right thing to do, its what i normally do on the other site. i'll use the quote buttons from now on. that being said, i dont like the way you addressed the issue in post 211. if you are talking to a newer player, i would imagine you would be a bit nicer, and just gently reminded me that there are quote buttons i should use. instead you came out as very harsh, almost as if you're laying guilt on me. i also don't like how even with me asking, and others too you still haven't given reads. i know you had 1 read on 1 person in post 215, but can you give some more detailed reads on everyone? i think it would make you a bit easier to read and be helpful for town.
thanks

also does anyone know how to make the underlined post numbers, so people can just click on the number and go to the post? i can't seem to figure it out. thanks in advance.

[CptPicard]

Sorry guys, I've been busy. I'll try to be more active as time allows.

Glad to see some more posts from you Not Chara, they make me feel a bit better about you. UNVOTE: Not Chara

Human is pinging my scumdar at the moment. Right now it's mostly a gut feel, but I've learned to trust my gut.

esires, I'll work on getting you some more information about how I'm thinking soon.

-

@Dunker, 228, use the post button and then put the post number in between the two tags.

Code: Select all

[post]228[/post]

[Plotinus]

VC 1.09

NGC 6357: Stellar Wonderland

Explanation: For reasons unknown, NGC 6357 is forming some of the most massive stars ever discovered. This complex wonderland of star formation consists of numerous filaments of dust and gas surrounding huge cavities of massive star clusters. The intricate patterns are caused by complex interactions between interstellar winds, radiation pressures, magnetic fields, and gravity. The featured image includes not only visible light taken by the UKIRT Telescope in Hawaii (blue) as part of the SuperCosmos Sky Surveys, but infrared light from NASA's orbiting Spitzer Space Telescope (orange) and X-ray light from NASA's orbiting Chandra X-ray Observatory (pink). NGC 6357 spans about 100 light years and lies about 5,500 light years away toward the constellation of the Scorpion. Within 10 million years, the most massive stars currently seen in NGC 6357 will have exploded.

Image and text credit

---

NotTheRealPaul

(1): TesXX

Human Sequencer

(1): Not Chara

Not Voting

(7): Human Sequencer, Dunkerdoodles, NotTheRealPaul, Drixx, skitter30, esires, CptPicard

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

The Day 1 Deadline is in

: (expired on 2017-06-01 11:11:37)

Mod Notes

Hi, I'm the backup mod!

-ThinkBig, the moderator, is V/LA on weekends and on Jewish holidays. Plotinus, the backup moderator, will be modding during this time.
-skitter30 is V/LA on shabbat and Jewish holidays.

[Not Chara]

is activity all it takes for your scumread to disappear, Picard? what was your problem with me that caused the scumread and how have my recent posts alleviated it?

activity is rarely AI unless it's something particular about that player, and far more often a symptom of being busy (which i have been).

[NotTheRealPaul]

I'll come back in the morning. Gonna try to dedicate my afternoon/evening to various games Im in and so some analysis.

That said, Im feeling better about Not Chara, but I wanna hear her reasons on HS that she promised. I think I remember her promising again, and while I like that she keeps bringing it up, it worries me that she still hasnt given any reasons, unless I missed something.

Drixx I think should be left alone for now. I think going after him D2 or D3 might be better. If it does take him a while to get going it will be nice to have him. That said, Drixx what are your thoughts on skitter compared to last game? You hosted it, so you know kinda how skitter plays as scum Im a bit worried because skitter is so good at blending in and we got a bit lucky with him last game.

Also, on a similar note, I encourage everyone to be careful in their read of skitter. Im incredibly paranoid because he is AMAZING at blending in. Just about everyone townread him in our last game, and only found him because everyone else was so obvtown D1 and his partner messed up.

Also HS is looking really good to me. I agree with whoever said he is trying to foster discussion with his questions.

Tessxx though has recently layed off a bit on the scumhunting IMO. Like I feel when Drixx asked him to "take the reigns" he went after me, and I liked that as he is a nearly confirmed town. But now I feel like he isnt too interested in it anymore now that there is no pressure from Drixx to do so. Id like to see more from him.

Dunkers Im just liking less and less. Its hard to explain but 228 and some others just ring insincere. Something about the wording just pings me as off.

Esires is looking town to me as well for same reasons as before. Howerver I will go back and see exactly what questions he has been asking. Similar to skitter im a bit paranoid here because of the similarities in their playstyles.

Picard is probably my number one scumread atm but I need to review. Like I know he doesnt post a lot normally, atleast when I looked at his post history, but what he has posted doesnt seem to have much content. Correct me if Im wrong here as I only skimmed the thread and dont remember anything significant about the post I saw.

I think thats everyone. These reads may change tomorrow as I just skimmed quickly through the recent posts before making them. Will try to elaborate on some of them like skitters and esires and picard.

What do you guys think of them? Agree? Disagree?

[Drixx]

Scum will take any opportunity to be liked and influence people to read them more positively.

It doesn't matter

what

it is. Can a townie do that? Sure. Not every instance of one player buddying another is scum. That said: it's remarkable how often scum do it.

Uh how would complimenting a nickname give you towncred? Being a cool person does not make you town. It can make people

wish

you were town but I don't understand how it would make people townread you.

The point of buddying is to alter the "base" read someone has of you. If you can be friendly and get someone to feel positive about you, then that raises the threshold for what it will take for them to become suspicious of you. Mafia, especially played just in text on a forum, is a very psychological game. That interaction could be innocent and meaningless, or it could be scum taking advantage of an easy opportunity to subtly appear easygoing and friendly. It's amazing how often friendly gets mistaken for townie in forum mafia.

I once experimented with being a total jerk on day one. It went so badly that two entire weeks were spent on discussing me, and by the end of the day, the other people in the game had come around and doubted I was scum, but by that point there was SO MUCH distraction about my slot, I felt that I had to be lynched, or else I would be an easy smokescreen. Either some townie would circle back to me, or scum would start it, and following days would be tainted by that day one. So I literally forced my mislynch. (If you want to go look it's the game with the title "Reds" in one of the regular queues).

Drixx you're still acting all weird. :/

Can you be more specific? I know the rest of your post elaborated kind of, but I'd like to know what you find weird. You did come after me by calling me disappointing (and you ignored my request for you to explain what you felt I was failing in my obligations).

UNVOTE:

At this stage I don't think a vote on HS is justified. HS is participating heavily and every post is trying to foster discussion and advance the game. While I did not like the quick move to put someone at L-1, HS has not been wagon hopping like he (she?) was initially, so

And THAT is the job of a town player. My job isn't to be popular or liked or even to be town read. My job is to find scum and convince you guys I have.

I kinda feel like it actually

is

part of a townie's job to be town read, right? It seems like that's one of a townie's primary jobs! Because as town, you know your own alignment and know you'd be a mislynch. So, as you mentioned earlier, defending yourself isn't scummy, and following that logic, doing your best to be town read as town seems imperative.

I am getting a really weird feeling from these posts. I know that emotion often gets wrapped up in games like this, but the whole "snake" bit seems a bit over the top. In the quoted post, you mention that your job is to find scum and convince others that you have - but to be totally honest I don't see a whole lot of that going on. I don't see much case-making, much pursuit of potential leads... just a lot of reactive posts, some of them over the top. Maybe, like your thoughts on how a BP claim should play (leading the town, essentially), I have thoughts of how an IC might play (leading the town, essentially) and what I see so far doesn't really fit with how I would imagine a town-aligned IC playing.

There is a lot of theorizing and elaboration on personal beliefs on things, along with some reactive posts - but not much else. So - Drixx - who do you feel is most likely to be scum, and why? Surely there's something to work off of at this point in the game, almost ten pages in.

I don't believe I could make a compelling case for anyone as scum yet. There's one slot that is close (and no, I'm not referring to Dunkerdoodles), but I am trying to think of a way to test that person. When I have what I feel is enough to at least make a push and get people looking, you'll know because I'll say so. I could probably make a couple of compelling "this person is almost certainly town" cases right now, but why would I do that? It's far too early for me to tell scum who I think is town and therefore who is unlikely to get my support if they push them for a mislynch. Much better if scum doesn't catch that someone town tells and tries to push them. That helps me greatly as anyone who tries a push on a TR warrants looking into.

As for the "snake" thing, I can get that seeming weird. So let me explain: In my first or second game on site (I think it was my first), the IC and an SE ganged up on me. At one point they asserted that I should be prison raped and heaped homophobic slurs on me. No. I'm not kidding. Being new to the site, I just took it and didn't fight back really. I went out into the other queues, and I found that a small percentage of people on this site (it really is a very small group) are regularly quite abusive. So I just made a rule for myself; I'll never start a fight, but if someone comes at me personally, and I ask them the back off and keep attacks aimed at my play and not me the person, and they keep coming after ME, then I will

finish

the fight. The snake analogy is probably because I've been watching videos on a YouTube channel called Viperkeeper, where a guy videos his hobby of keeping and breeding some of the most venomous snakes in the world (Mambas, Death Adders, Puff Adders, all types of Cobras, etc...) and so it was fresh in my mind. The point was that I am not going to let anyone tell me that I'm a disappointment. I take my job as an IC very seriously. A few of you have noted me doing that job and noted that quite a few of my posts are about theory and game play. That's umm... my job.

Now I will stand by my statement about my job being to find scum and convince the rest of my team I've caught scum. If I just obvtown straightaway and don't let scum think they can get a mislynch on me, then I am going to get killed off early, especially by anyone who takes the time to look into my meta and realizes that I snowball from kind of bad at being town on day one to very good along the course of the game. I can link to multiple games where you will see this trajectory play out. One of the reasons I play constantly in the newbie queue is to work on my early game. The newbie queue is not a mechanics heavy game setup and requires a lot more actual scum hunting than a lot of the large themed games I enjoy playing. That's right. I'm the IC, but I'm here to learn too!

There's also the reality that as the IC, I will either be night killed quickly or by day 2 or 3, people are going to wonder why I'm still alive. If I can keep the night kill away long enough, I can usually leave enough good data to help my team. Obviously in games where I roll scum, I have to work very hard on obvtowning.

Another reason I assert that it's not the job of town to be liked or to play to be town read is because if a player develops a playstyle where they are obviously town when they roll town, then they will be a liability when they roll scum. Ideally, a player should be self aware enough to adopt a play style that plays to his/her/its strengths and works as any alignment.

sorry drixx, i thought copy pasting was the right thing to do, its what i normally do on the other site. i'll use the quote buttons from now on. that being said, i dont like the way you addressed the issue in post 211. if you are talking to a newer player, i would imagine you would be a bit nicer, and just gently reminded me that there are quote buttons i should use. instead you came out as very harsh, almost as if you're laying guilt on me. i also don't like how even with me asking, and others too you still haven't given reads. i know you had 1 read on 1 person in post 215, but can you give some more detailed reads on everyone? i think it would make you a bit easier to read and be helpful for town.
thanks

also does anyone know how to make the underlined post numbers, so people can just click on the number and go to the post? i can't seem to figure it out. thanks in advance.

If my post about the quotes came across as unkind, I apologize. Please remember that text carries a very small % of communication. There was no irritation or anything like that. I was simply letting you know that people would consider that style of quoting to be rude and the reasons why, as well as letting you know the alternatives that are generally used.

The question about post counts was already answered.

As a general rule, I don't do formalized reads lists where I list everyone in the game and rank them. You can find that very occasionally in my games, but if you can find it more than ten times in my more than 5,600 posts, I would be surprised. I find that putting together a list of least to most scummy tends to impede my thinking. I will stop re-evaluating as much as I should and I miss really obvious stuff. Instead what I do is note things in a notepad file that catch my interest for each player, and every so often I'll do a "sort" of the player list with an actual whiteboard and dry erase marker. The sort is meant to help me use my time wisely and re-read people more likely to be scum. I sort based upon my notes.

Apart from keeping a running reads list being something that I feel hinders me, there's also the fact that I play things close to the vest. If you want an example of this, you could look at Steven Universe (the original one). I was in hydra (Reasonably Rational). My hydra partner and I caught a scum slip, then spent like 10 days combing through the game and everything we knew with a fine tooth comb to make sure it was a slip before we told the game. We ended up killing all but one scum based upon that slip. THEN we figured out that a nearly universal scum read player was actually town, and tested them to prove it, posted the logical reasoning for it. Again ... this involved quite a lot of work that nobody saw until post-game when our hydra PT was made available.

If you want an idea of what sort of thinking and notes I do for mafia games, you should find Steven Universe Mafia in my post history (fairly sure I posted with this account in the post-game) and in the mod ISO you will find a link to the Reasonably Rational Hydra PT for the game, and you can see. Fair warning: It's something absurd like 600,000 words of discussion between my hydra partner and myself.

To make a long post short: I have a method and it is proven to work pretty well.

Drixx I think should be left alone for now. I think going after him D2 or D3 might be better. If it does take him a while to get going it will be nice to have him. That said, Drixx what are your thoughts on skitter compared to last game? You hosted it, so you know kinda how skitter plays as scum Im a bit worried because skitter is so good at blending in and we got a bit lucky with him last game.

Skitter is in my "never trust" pile after that game. I wouldn't dream of actually believing I can have an accurate bead on him on day one. Not after that performance.

[Drixx]

As a general note: As long as you all keep pushing me and asking me questions, I'll keep answering them, which will keep populating my ISO with posts talking about/defending myself, which will feed into the idea that I'm only defending myself. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy at a certain point.

[CptPicard]

is activity all it takes for your scumread to disappear, Picard? what was your problem with me that caused the scumread and how have my recent posts alleviated it?

activity is rarely AI unless it's something particular about that player, and far more often a symptom of being busy (which i have been).

No, it was more the content of your post that made me feel a bit better about you. I still am a bit suspicious of you, but I'm tabling it for the moment.

[Not Chara]

again, can you go into your thought process of what was bothering you and why these posts helped with that?

[Human Sequencer]

I'm a little less paranoid of Chara after their new content. But I still question the scumread on me. I get that you're starting to become critical of it yourself, but you never explained why it even formed in the first place. Is it just one massive amalgamations of gut pings?

Human is pinging my scumdar at the moment. Right now it's mostly a gut feel, but I've learned to trust my gut.

Where did you learn that?

Dunkers is starting to scare me a little more. What Paul said earlier about sheepy town vs. safe-posting mafia is starting to ring true. Almost every comment they make has already been made by somebody else, usually better.

231 is a good post and I look forward to Picard's response to it.

Paul is still looking towny. I get the feeling it feels like to him he's shouting into an echochamber, and is slightly annoyed that people aren't really directly interacting and communicating with his reads. I liked his comment on Skitter, but

@Paul

, is there any reason you didn't bring that up earlier?

That said, Im feeling better about Not Chara, but I wanna hear her reasons on HS that she promised. I think I remember her promising again, and while I like that she keeps bringing it up, it worries me that she still hasnt given any reasons, unless I missed something.

Drixx I think should be left alone for now. I think going after him D2 or D3 might be better. If it does take him a while to get going it will be nice to have him.

I agree with all of this.

And then the Drixx wall.
To respond, no, I can't really go in detail past what I already have. It's effectively that I don't think you're acting as a town-aligned IC would or should, taken verbatim from esires, but I think that's intrinsically tied in with your method of play. So you're on hold.

[Human Sequencer]

Forgot to write a part on Picard. In short, VOTE: Picard
I don't want him to get away with lurking.

Esires and Dunker, you've both been very timid in your recent posts, especially Dunker. Not sure what to make of it right now, because I've got you sorted as town right now. Dunker in particular is starting to screw with my radar. Egh.

[skitter30]

I'm here. Sorry about yesterday. The electricity was out in my neighborhood for several hours, and so I didn't have wifi, and it's really hard for me to post the way I like from my phone. There will be a bunch of posts incoming.

Spoiler: Firstly, Dunker.

I'm not entirely sure how to read him. Some of his posts are coming off very newbie (like 113) and some of them are coming off as a lot more experienced (like 174 and 190).

I disagree with this:

You start out by buddying Human about the nickname

I think he's just saying that he likes the nickname. I don't think it's AI.

Drixx addressed this later, but I want to talk about this as well:

i am going to point out, most of drixx's posts have been either defending himself or other irrelvant stuff. i would like to see some more aggression by him, questioning people, reading people voting people etc. he seems to kinda be hiding, and then when he's suspected, he comes out with a big wall defending himself. not necessarily a scumtell as activity and aggressiveness is NAI, but something to point out

I disagree with this. Yes, a lot of his posts have been about IC'ing. But, a lot of his posts up until this point is the Tess/BP thing. Although I believe Tess's claim, I think it is totally valid for Drixx to warn us about the possibility of Tess being scum, and to keep this in the back of our minds. So, I wouldn't classify all of his posts as 'either defending himself or other irrelevant stuff.' In fact, beyond the very early posts about the flavor, I'm not sure which posts you're classifying as 'other irrelevant stuff.' And when people question him, what's he supposed to do? Not defend himself? That would be weird. You also say you want 'to see more aggression by him', but then suggest that 'activity and aggressiveness is NAI'. So, if it's NAI, why would more aggression make you feel better about him? Like, I get that you want to hear more from Drixx, but I don't understand how you can say aggressiveness is NAI but that Drixx being more aggressive would help you feel better about him.

so for everyone wondering about me, at the start i was nervous, because its my first game on a new site. i was really worried about screwing up, so i guess i acted strange and confused a lot of people. i'm sorry, and i will start trying to be better and re read my posts to make sure they make sense. now that ive settled in and feel more comfortable, i'm going to try and be better so thanks

Like, I totally get being new and nervous, but your tone just completely shifted from one post to the next, and it's weird.

i would like to clarify i was not scumreading you, just asking for you to give more offensive opinions, instead of just giving information

So, who are you scumreading then? And from 174, it certainly sounds like he's the person you find most sketchy . . .

at the start, when i and other people started questioning you, suddenly you started to become super defensive, telling me why i'm wrong and that you proceed to attack me, by defending yourself.

I don't think Drixx became super-defensive, and that you mischaracterized his reaction. He was just explaining things from his POV. And there was a lot weird about 174, so yeah, he called on you on it.

Now onto reads. I know I just unvoted Drixx, but having glanced at his ISO im not liking that he hasnt done much analysis personally. Past the whole Tessx thing all he has done is some IC stuff.

first of all, i'm going to assume you mean the bolded part when you talk about drixx, but i think the way i said it doesn't relate to yours at all. even if it does have some connections, mine is worded way differently and has more detail.
paul seems really eager to get towncred, by pointing out how i'm echoing what he says. still reads town to me though

Um, the two of you made very similar points, and if anything, Paul more accurately represented Drixx's ISO. He pointed it out first in 162. Can you explain how your analysis of Drixx is not just echoing what he said?

i said i wasnt looking for towncred just pointing out what u did. yours is hella similar to mine just in a lot more words. I'll agree with u that u included a few more details but the main point is unchanged.

I'll leave this alone for now unless someone thinks I have a point

Yes, I think you have a point with this.

sorry drixx, i thought copy pasting was the right thing to do, its what i normally do on the other site. i'll use the quote buttons from now on. that being said, i dont like the way you addressed the issue in post 211. if you are talking to a newer player, i would imagine you would be a bit nicer, and just gently reminded me that there are quote buttons i should use.

instead you came out as very harsh, almost as if you're laying guilt on me

. i also don't like how even with me asking, and others too you still haven't given reads. i know you had 1 read on 1 person in post 215, but can you give some more detailed reads on everyone? i think it would make you a bit easier to read and be helpful for town.
thanks

also does anyone know how to make the underlined post numbers, so people can just click on the number and go to the post? i can't seem to figure it out. thanks in advance.

I agree that Drixx's 211 was perhaps a tad harsh, especially to a newbie, but I don't think it's accurate to say that he's accusing you of anything in that post.

Overall, your tone/comfort-level changed super fast, you're posts are giving me weird vibes and are overly focused on Drixx and not presenting him accurately. Can you share what you think about everyone else? Who do you think is scum right now?

[skitter30]

@Tess, regarding 188.

Spoiler:

Human, 102 is not why I'm sus of you. It's pinging me bad, but that's not what I'm building a case on. So, I get that you were making a catchup post, and that it was sort of a running commentary, but you never really said what your reads are on anyone after that. Like, after reading through five pages, you should be able to say, 'OK, I'm leaning town on X because . . . and scum on Y because . . .'. You just left at those waffly reads and at the end of all of it, never actually gave a concrete read on anyone. Like, I understand the running commentary bit, but after you had the running commentary, you didn't come up with any hard conclusions.

Some people develop reads late in the game. Take this game of mine for example.

I have like no townreads

You just told HS they should be able to say that they're leaning town on blablablah because blablablah and scum on blablablah because blablablah. But now you're saying you're not leaning town on anybody.

Um, fair actually. I guess the difference is that I feel have been pretty transparent with what I'm thinking. Whereas I'm seeing a lot of waffling from HS but nothing conclusive, and I'm not seeing what's making him so indecisive. Just a lot of statements saying 'this can come from scum or town' without really explaining why. He can apply that blanket statement to anything, and it's hard to talk about, because he doesn't really elaborate. Like, those opening posts were very general, and I get that he's waffling, but I don't get *why* he's waffling, and I don't see how his reads changed so fast from one post to the next, and after all of those posts, there's just no conclusions. (Yes, some came later, but I'm talking about those opening posts in general.) Whereas, there's with me, there's a bunch of people I'm just reading as null, but I've been vocally pointing out the scummy things I've been seeing, and why I see them.

@Paul:

Spoiler:

Okay im a bit annoyed that no one has really acknowledged this. Im not trying to get credit, but Dunkey didnt point out drixx's lack of analysis. I did. I did it in 162 and he did it in 174. I think I even mentioned this in 176. Right now Im looking at 174 as fluff. And HS kinda glazing over this and acting like Dunkey pointed it out all by himself irks me.

Yeah, this makes me like Paul more. He's persistent in pointing out why he thinks Dunker is wrong, and I think Dunker is misrepresenting the situation, so I appreciate Paul sticking to his guns even though no one else agreed with him. Like, he's too persistent for me to see these posts from scum; I think if he were scum, he'd back down and wouldn't keep briniging it up when no one agreed with him.

I still dislike the fact that you were *very* eager to hammer, but I'm feeling like your recent posts are sincere.

@Drixx, regarding 215

Spoiler:

By definition, scum already know who everyone is, but need to get people they know are town mislyched. In order to do this they have to employ a fiction ... a narrative. Pretend to be town and exploit things people say to try and set them up to eat rope. As the game goes on, things that scum cannot predict happen and force this narrative to adjust. Catch the contradictions or "slips" in this narrative, and you have scum.

This is a really interesting way of thinking about the game, and I'm definitely going to try to apply it.

That said, I disagree with this:

My job isn't to be popular or liked or even to be town read. My job is to find scum and convince you guys I have.

I would consider it part of a townie's job to get town-read. If you're not town-read, you're a potential lynch target. And (in general, barring specific weird contexts), townies do not want to get lynched. In a newbie game, there are at most four oppurtunities to lynch someone. If we lynch a townie instead of scum, we've under-utilized town's major resource, the lynch. So, I consider it part of a townie's job to do their best to not get lynched, and I think you help accomplish that by being town-read.

@Picard, regarding 229

Spoiler:

I still dislike the vote/unvote on NC. I don't understand why you made it in the first place, and I don't understand why you unvoted. Why is the fact that NC posted recently enough to unvote them? Is there anything in particular you like about the posts? Or did you literally just unvote because they posted? And in 235,
you say you like the content of NC's posts. Can you elaborate?

[skitter30]

Now I want to address these two comments:

hat said, Drixx what are your thoughts on skitter compared to last game? You hosted it, so you know kinda how skitter plays as scum Im a bit worried because skitter is so good at blending in and we got a bit lucky with him last game.

Also, on a similar note, I encourage everyone to be careful in their read of skitter. Im incredibly paranoid because he is AMAZING at blending in. Just about everyone townread him in our last game, and only found him because everyone else was so obvtown D1 and his partner messed up.

And

Skitter is in my "never trust" pile after that game. I wouldn't dream of actually believing I can have an accurate bead on him on day one. Not after that performance.

.

Spoiler:

1. To both of you, I'm she/her, not he/him.

2. Um, I don't think I played *such* a good game there. Like I was saying, that was legit my first groupscum game, so I was just kinda making it up as I was going along.

3. @drixx in particular. I'm just going to note that on my other site, a dude semi-sucessfully pocketed me last game by making comments like this and being *super* complimentary about my game. I realized what he was doing just as I got killed, but I'm now hyper-aware of this sort of thing, and your comment in particular sounds eerily similar to the things he was saying that game. I know that this is a different site and that you aren't him, but I can see this being an attempt to pocket me. Like, it sounds very hyperbolic, especially since I don't think I played *that* well.

4. Is there anything in particular you want to talk about this game? Or about how I'm playing this game similarly to Comics?

5. @Paul, this is basically why I made 180. You say that you like esires' style, but that you're townreading him, even though you think he's playing similarly to how I played Comics, where I was scum. I was trying to reconcile your viewpoint, and I think you're basically saying that while you usually think this style comes from town, you're paranoid of it because of how I played Comics. And you're seeing differences in esires and Comics!me since you think esires has been committing more. Is that right?

[skitter30]

Oh, I forgot to say that I still have more to say about HS and Drixx and probably Picard, but that's going to come later.

[NotTheRealPaul]

@HS THANK YOU!! You nailed my feeling about the echochamber. TBh i was waiting to see how skitter would play this and if there would be any marked diferences in his style. The reason im worried is because there are nearly none atleast that I can tell without going back and comparing ISO's to each other.

Have yet to read skitters stuff yet will get to it later

[Human Sequencer]

Been hearing a lot of that lately.

If you had to give one player a vig shot right now, Skitter, who would it be?

Nobody can flip null, everybody's either scum or town. When I say, 'could be town or scum', I'm trying to figure out how that player's personality would flow writing that as scum or town. They're two narratives that run side by side, but only one of them is correct. As most things early game are difficult to read alignment from, don't you think it would make sense that I wouldn't be able to pin either narrative as truthful? Ergo, 'Could be town or scum. Unsure which.'
If your answer to that is 'yes', I'm sorry to inform you but I'm not a mafia god quite yet

PEDIT: All directed at Skitter.

[Human Sequencer]

>his
nice one paul, keep it up

[NotTheRealPaul]

Skitters ya I do townread esires. Tha said Im still paranoid of him a bit just cuz style similarities. And while your game wasnt perfect, it was excellent and if MM hadnt gotten caught D1 you couldve probably pulled it off IMO.

Also I agree with you completely on Picard, and Im glad im not alone on the dunkers thing. Thought I was going crazy shouting into the echochamber HS mentioned.

[TesXX]

186: is better from Paul. it actively invites heat from Drixx.

I don't think it's very alignment indicative. Scum also easily could do it for towncred.

196 would also be weird from new scum.

How?

Human is pinging my scumdar at the moment. Right now it's mostly a gut feel, but I've learned to trust my gut.

Gut often sucks.

[ThinkBig]

Mod Note: Thank you to Plotinus for doing a phenomenal job as a backup. I appreciate your hard work.

I am going to be away next week from Tuesday evening until Thursday evening to observe Shavuot.

[ThinkBig]

Bumping to the top