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Post Post #1200 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:15 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 1198, DrumBeats wrote:@ Priscila - In , you literally stated that you were not scumreading me. Clearly your read has changed more than you want us to believe right now. I am painting the picture that is clear in your ISO Priscila. Anybody who doubts me on this, go there and control F "drum" and you'll see the same thing I am.
My read on as of 151 was a scumlean. It grew to a scumread later.
In post 1199, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yet you said that scum
needed
a counterwagon! Do you stand by that still? Because with plurality on RhazhBash, by your reads, they would have a lynch on town already in place!
Presuming Drum is scum, yes they need a counterwagon. Rhazh is currently the best option they have. It's easy, there'd be very little resistance if not for me, and Drum has been... beating that drum for a while now, so the groundwork is there.
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Post Post #1201 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:20 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Image
Since we agree that in your opinion Rhazh is a sufficient counter wagon,
Image
Why do you say Fro99er is making a counterwagon on Boon?
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Post Post #1202 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:23 pm

Post by mush »

damn is priscilla mafia? one of my stronger townreads on first read through but I am reconsidering.
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Post Post #1203 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Priscila »

Spoiler:
My issue with Drum is that he seems to be in large part trying to pass of fluff for content. His wall post about his reads does not contain nearly any analysis. He seems to only be summarizing their activity. To me, this is what scum looks like when they are trying to seem to be producing a lot of content and thought when they really are not. The fact that there is nothing at at that can really be said about this post is proof enough of how empty it is. These are not reasoned out reads.

Following this, he calls out players for being contradictory (this is not scumhunting) and postures around very weakly alignment indicative questions (and he doesn't follow them up later anyway). There is no scumhunting in the content after that, he simply gives commentary - his posts do nothing to sort players, they are simply long and seem to be designed to appear busy.

Later, he again produces a wallpost summarizing player activity. There is the barest modicum of reasoning here and his only deviation from simple commentary is to make blank statements with no supporting argumentation, mostly exaggerating nullish behavior into whatever read he prefers to assign to it. It is arbitrary. Nothing in this shows any thought process about arriving at his reads. There is no scumhunting.

He conflates null behavior as scummy again with Rhazh - he has shown a tendency of doing this to this player - then postures around reads of Nero Cain and Boonskiies, framing their interactions as weird. He furthers his framing by saying that Nero is clearly buddying Boonskiies and postures heavily about what any of it might mean. This is not scumhunting. There is no purpose to this except to shade these two players and poison their interactions.

His townread on mush comes almost immediately after mush replaces into the game. He provides one line of very weak reasons for this read and seems to arrive at it in a completely arbitrary manner. In the same post, he again conflates mostly null behavior from Rhazh to support his scum read, then seemingly calls Rhazh scummy simply for using pre-flip associatives. There is nothing scummy about this.

Soon after comes more exaggeration of null behavior by Rhazh to fit his scum read, while calling Zach a "frustrated townie" - this, again, is not sorting Zach, he is framing a narrative to fit his description of Zach's play rather than reading into Zach's motivations and adjusting his read accordingly. This is a clever form of buddying. Note that he previously characterized very similar behavior as scummy.

The remainder of his content is largely just more fluff, shading Rhazh, exaggerating null behavior, weak, posturing questions, framing Nero+Boon interactions, softballing with Frog, then arriving at a Frog townread in very much the same way it seems to me that he arrived at his mush townread - arbitrarily.


The short of it is that the majority of his content consists of fluff, exaggerating null behavior to faciliate his reads, asking questions that can barely be considered scumhunting, lack of reasoning for his reads overall and a dearth of sorting and gamesolving. His thread presence revolves around producing wallposts that say nothing very extreme so that he appears to be busy and doing things without ever really ruffling any feathers. The opponent that he has picked - RhazBash - is weak and he has nothing to fear from that slot in tunneling it. Drum has no drive to solve this game and none of his content furthers the town win condition.
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Post Post #1204 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 1202, mush wrote:damn is priscilla mafia? one of my stronger townreads on first read through but I am reconsidering.
I am sure you can work yourself around to scumreading me if you bullshit it hard enough.
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Post Post #1205 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Post by Priscila »

Gamma, scum do like wagons on their buds. They push counterwagons in order to divert attention.
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Post Post #1206 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 1205, Priscila wrote:Gamma, scum do not like wagons on their buds. They push counterwagons in order to divert attention.
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Post Post #1207 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:28 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Why did you post that then quote it instantly?
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Post Post #1208 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:29 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

And why wouldn't he push Rhazh? It makes no sense!
I think I'm good for gifs now
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Post Post #1209 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Post by Nosferatu »

VLA until Monday computer isn't working
BRASIL BRASIL BRASIL BRRRRR
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Post Post #1210 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Post by Priscila »

I left out a word. Typically, scum will push more than one counter wagon to get a wagon off their bud. They will push as many counter wagons as they can with the resources they have until another wagon gains more traction and drowns out the wagon on their bud. So they will not just push one wagon - if they push two they have better chances to create another leading wagon. Also, Boonskiies is on the Drum wagon. By pushing Boonskiies, they are indirectly undermining the push on Drum. Rhazh is not on the Drum wagon.
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Post Post #1211 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:37 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Um, I'd expect one wagon since that would create more focus on one push resulting in more votes there
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Post Post #1212 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Priscila »

There are many players in this game. You cannot create a wagon from nothing. You need villagers who are also scumreading some player. So you push multiple players, more chance of villagers agreeing and joining.
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Post Post #1213 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1193, Priscila wrote:Barely. He gave reads on three or four players?
So yo want me to have reads on the whole game shortly after replacing into a 40 page game?
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Post Post #1214 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:44 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1212, Priscila wrote:There are many players in this game.
Yet she expects me to have a ton of reads as soon as I replace into a 20 player game without reading most of it 40 pages in
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Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #1215 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:45 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Lolol
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Post Post #1216 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 6:54 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1200, Priscila wrote:Presuming Drum is scum
And if he's town, do they NEED a counterwagon?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
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Post Post #1217 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Post by DrumBeats »

In post 1203, Priscila wrote:
Spoiler:
1 My issue with Drum is that he seems to be in large part trying to pass of fluff for content. His wall post about his reads does not contain nearly any analysis. He seems to only be summarizing their activity. To me, this is what scum looks like when they are trying to seem to be producing a lot of content and thought when they really are not. The fact that there is nothing at at that can really be said about this post is proof enough of how empty it is. These are not reasoned out reads.

2 Following this, he calls out players for being contradictory (this is not scumhunting) and postures around very weakly alignment indicative questions (and he doesn't follow them up later anyway). There is no scumhunting in the content after that, he simply gives commentary - his posts do nothing to sort players, they are simply long and seem to be designed to appear busy.

3 Later, he again produces a wallpost summarizing player activity. There is the barest modicum of reasoning here and his only deviation from simple commentary is to make blank statements with no supporting argumentation, mostly exaggerating nullish behavior into whatever read he prefers to assign to it. It is arbitrary. Nothing in this shows any thought process about arriving at his reads. There is no scumhunting.

4 He conflates null behavior as scummy again with Rhazh - he has shown a tendency of doing this to this player - then postures around reads of Nero Cain and Boonskiies, framing their interactions as weird. He furthers his framing by saying that Nero is clearly buddying Boonskiies and postures heavily about what any of it might mean. This is not scumhunting. There is no purpose to this except to shade these two players and poison their interactions.

5 His townread on mush comes almost immediately after mush replaces into the game. He provides one line of very weak reasons for this read and seems to arrive at it in a completely arbitrary manner. In the same post, he again conflates mostly null behavior from Rhazh to support his scum read, then seemingly calls Rhazh scummy simply for using pre-flip associatives. There is nothing scummy about this.

6 Soon after comes more exaggeration of null behavior by Rhazh to fit his scum read, while calling Zach a "frustrated townie" - this, again, is not sorting Zach, he is framing a narrative to fit his description of Zach's play rather than reading into Zach's motivations and adjusting his read accordingly. This is a clever form of buddying. Note that he previously characterized very similar behavior as scummy.

7 The remainder of his content is largely just more fluff, shading Rhazh, exaggerating null behavior, weak, posturing questions, framing Nero+Boon interactions, softballing with Frog, then arriving at a Frog townread in very much the same way it seems to me that he arrived at his mush townread - arbitrarily.


8 The short of it is that the majority of his content consists of fluff, exaggerating null behavior to faciliate his reads, asking questions that can barely be considered scumhunting, lack of reasoning for his reads overall and a dearth of sorting and gamesolving. His thread presence revolves around producing wallposts that say nothing very extreme so that he appears to be busy and doing things without ever really ruffling any feathers. The opponent that he has picked - RhazBash - is weak and he has nothing to fear from that slot in tunneling it. Drum has no drive to solve this game and none of his content furthers the town win condition.
Numbering each paragraph in your post for formatting in mine.
Spoiler:
1 - How the hell does contain no analysis? Everyone reading this read the post and judge for yourself. I'mm calling your bluff on this post Priscila. Quote this post, underline the summary, bold the analysis. Also tell me which players have analyzed the game up to your standards, since you clearly have a drastically different definition of it than me.

2 - Contradictions are noteworthy and can indicate that a player is not being genuine with their reasoning that they provide. If a player contradicts that same reasoning consistently, it is likely fabricated which could be a scumtell. I don't even know which questions you're referring to in the second point about "weakly alignment indicative questions". I pushed for fykus to provide his own reasoning, which he hadn't done much of early on, some type of content from Mislynch who was completely inactive, and provided a counterpoint towards your opinion on Sling. None of this fits your description.

3 - Onto my next two reads, which you describe as me exaggerating null behavior. Quote the post. Point out the null behaviors I'm exaggerating and why they don't make sense. I read their ISO's I wrote my opinions about them and what they made me think.

4 - Setting up second lynches is definitely not null behavior. I have a "tendency to do this to Rhazh" because Rhazh has a tendency to attempt to frame somebody else for lynches he has pushed. Naturally I called him on it both times. Now onto the "framing", which by the way nice choice of words to make it sound way different than what it was. I pointed out that Nero seems to be buddying Boon, which is a common scum/town thing. The funny thing is that in your description here you say I was shading both of them, but I clearly said that I believe that if anything it would be that Nero was scum and Boon was town. But clearly you didn't actually read my post so its whatever. The purpose is to point out a possible connection. The clear thing I've noticed here is that anything that I analyze, you write off as "exaggerating null behavior", "framing", or "shading" without giving it much thought.

5 - Mush went balls deep with catching up and delivered a pretty well put together read on several people. That's more contribution than several players had done the rest of the game. If you are going to call every one of my reads arbitrary despite me giving clear reasons for them, I'm going to have a hard time believing that you have any motive other than discrediting me. And again, pre-flip associatives are incredibly scummy because scum know who is town and who is mafia. If Rhazh is scum and knows mozamis is town, he can then say that if Mozamis flips town, Fykus is suspect for it and set Fykus up to be the next lynch.

6 - Oh look a post that I worked out with Rhazh that I was wrong about cool. Yes, I thought that that was Rhazh's way of dodging the question,
and Rhazh proved me wrong by telling me why he couldn't talk about it. You'd think somebody who hates "arbitrary reasoning" would want to know what "Meta related reasons. Can't say any more right now" means, but you're not actually concerned about arbitrary reasoning, you just use that to discredit reasoning you disagree with. As for my Zach read, if you looked at all of it rather than isolate individual responses, has been a tough one for me to sort. He feels like a frustrated townie in my opinion, but parts of what he says strike me as "maybe this is a scum player who is frustrated because he's being scumread for dumb reasons rather than because he's town". Quite frankly, I'm still figuring out Zach, and I have a lot stronger scumreads to pursue right now. Noted the "framing" of me as buddying him though - because that's what we call analyzing relationships in this conversation right? (In case you couldn't tell that was sarcasm. I fully understand trying to analyze the relationship - but guess what, I did that with Nero/Boon and you called it Framing.)

7 - Alright, so the fluff link was directed towards me actually getting information out of Frogger while you sat back screaming that he was scum right after he subbed in (which by the way, you criticized me for getting a town read on somebody right after they subbed in.) Wait hold up, this next one is gold. According to you, I'm shading Rhazh for his gut townread on Frogger immediately after subbing. But look at paragraph 5 of your case on me. You did the same thing to me about Mush, who had posted much more content by then, and I gave a reason, while Rhazh just did a gutread. Why is it shading when I do it, but analysis when you do? Exaggerating null behavior linked to me telling Rhazh that him not actively scumhunting and instead trying to buddy was suspicious. Both of these things are behaviors that you are calling suspicious from me, but you are fine with from Rhazh? Weak posturing questions led me to me asking questions for information. I don't think they're weak, but I guess that's a matter of opinion. I already defended the Nero/Boon stuff. And then I didn't even townread Frog - I just said I feel better, since I felt bad about the question dodging. And again though, you don't give a shit about Rhazh's instant gut townread on him.

8 - Mostly bullshit buzzwords to be honest. You say I haven't ruffled feathers, but I've probably been the most controversial player in this game,
and have ruffled most peoples feathers off and on. You say I've tunnelled Rhazh, but I've talked about other targets, questioned other people,
and stated which other targets I am willing to pursue. I stayed on Rhazh because he was my strongest lead, and now people are finally starting to take notice of it. And that last sentence - bullshit, you are doing nothing to sort here and this post makes that clear.


Holy shit that was a long one. The short of it is that Priscila misrepresented a lot of my posts. If you want to vote me today, all that I ask is that you look at the posts and read them and ask yourself if you think they are fluff/no analysis/whatever other buzzwords priscila was using. Do not just take Priscila's word for it because it's honestly disgustingly misrepresented in my opinion, but I am clearly biased.

One big point I want out of the spoiler since I know several people aren't going to read it, is that many of Priscila's accusations towards myself have been seen by Rhazh, but are considered completely fine by Priscila. One of Priscila's points on paragraph 5 of it, was that my townread on Mush formed too quickly and the reasoning was "arbitrary" - though I've explained it twice now. Rhazh gut townread Frogger within a few posts - so that is a quickly forming read with no reasoning. Priscila called me saying that Rhazh's lack of active scumhunting and attempting to buddy instead was scummy was "over-exaggerating null behavior" - yet Priscila claims I am doing both of those to build her case on me.

Tomorrow I'm going to ISO Priscila. I'm getting a huge scum feeling from her right now due to the last few pages. It could easily be bias on my part, which is why I want to both rest on it and look at the full ISO, but she's really suspicious in my eyes.
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Post Post #1218 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 7:58 pm

Post by Fro99er »

Gamma let's be masons
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #1219 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 8:06 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1209, Nosferatu wrote:
VLA until Monday computer isn't working
Will it be fixed by Monday?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #1220 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 8:06 pm

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1219, Fro99er wrote:
In post 1209, Nosferatu wrote:
VLA until Monday computer isn't working
Will it be fixed by Monday?
Or maybe Sunday?

Or Tuesday possibly?
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Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #1221 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 8:10 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 1218, Fro99er wrote:
Gamma let's be masons
Yes please
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Post Post #1222 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 8:11 pm

Post by Fro99er »

*handshake*
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #1223 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 11:20 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

@Nero
You were Town in Smackdown dude
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Post Post #1224 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 1:22 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 1212, Priscila wrote:There are many players in this game. You cannot create a wagon from nothing.
Nero Cain would beg to differ

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