Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!

[TrustGossip]

Xyl: I know this sounds odd but you've done so many things wrong whilst being oblivious of said wrongs that I don't think you're scum.

Unvote

I will post my full opinions/analysis of the opie wagon in some indeterminate time (am currently moving the computer back home, thus somewhat L/A on weekdays)

=======================================

Votecount #8

opie - 3 (Adel, Oman, Guardian)

Oman - 2 (Erg0, Jitsu)
TrustGossip - 2 (pickemgenius, Xylthixlm)
Matt_S - 1 (ChaosOmega)
Guardian - 1 (opie)
pickemgenius - 1 (Incognito)

Not voting - 2 (Matt_S, TrustGossip)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================

[Adel]

I like how Matt_S put a fos on his scumbuddy but still hasn't decided to buss him.

[Guardian]

I like how Matt_S put a fos on his scumbuddy but still hasn't decided to buss him.

Wow, I see what you see -- was he really that transparent? Maybe he is a better lynch, I shall ponder.

[Adel]

He will make for a great lynch tomorrow. opie dies in like three pages.

[Guardian]

Meh, I'm not sure I'm convinced that he actually was revealing anything there. His play otherwise has been OK.

Not 100% sold on opie, but I don't see anything better.

[Xylthixlm]

You fail. 43% isn't an accurate number, but I was willing to let it pass the first time. Now you are throwing out 35%, which is another inaccurate number. Either drop the subject or get schooled in a most embarrassing way. Before you go back and check your addition and division here is a hint: you are doing it wrong.

This is a ridiculous distraction from the game, but I can't resist my curiosity. What error do you think I have made?

[Xylthixlm]

1. I've seen strong opinions against him, hence I'm going to reread tomorrow and see if it's well grounded. For now I'll have to go with everyone else's arguments. If everybody else was getting as much attention as him I probably wouldn't FoS him.

This is, quite possibly,

the

most stupid reason for a FoS I have ever seen. If that's a distancing attempt, it's badly done. If it's an attempt to look protown, it's badly done. If it's an attempt to find scum, it's

very

badly done.

In other words, I agree with Adel and Guardian.

[pickemgenius]

I think opie would make a great lynch for this day.

I'm not so sold on the apparent transperency from Matt.

I feel strangely good about Adel.

Mostly neutral for everybody else.

[Oman]

I will post my full opinions/analysis of the opie wagon in some indeterminate time (am currently moving the computer back home, thus somewhat L/A on weekdays)

Please don't


Guardian: you are correct, I appologise.

[Erg0]

I should have unvoted by now.

Unvote

I'm somewhat behind, doing a full reread so I can actually post something useful.

[Incognito]

Incognito, I really am having a hard time understanding your question. If you want an answer, I'll need you to re-explain what you want me to respond about.

Guardian, my issue is this: In the beginning of the game, you seemed intent on having everyone explain their stance about the Erg0 mini-wagon. Xylthixlm made a post seen here which leads me to believe that he was in favor of the Erg0 wagon but he doesn't follow up this statement with a vote on Erg0. After Xyl's statement, you questioned Xyl about which definition of "arbitrary" he was using and then you polled everyone else to try to find out their stance with respect to the wagon: Post 65. When you questioned Xyl about his usage of the word "arbitrary", why did you not question Xylthixlm about his lack of a vote against Erg0 when he seemed to be in favor of the wagon?

Adel

, please respond to my Post 164.

[Xylthixlm]

Incognito, why should Guardian have questioned me on my post?

[Adel]

Incognito: if I understand correctly, the question you are really asking is "why opie but not Jitsu?"
Jitsu seems far less scummy to me.

[Incognito]

Incognito: if I understand correctly, the question you are really asking is "why opie but not Jitsu?"
Jitsu seems far less scummy to me.

Any reason why?

Incognito, why should Guardian have questioned me on my post?

Your post seemed to show that you were in favor of the Erg0 wagon but your actions displayed otherwise; you kept your vote on Matt_S. I just feel that if Guardian really wanted to find out people's opinions about the Erg0 wagon, his questioning of you might have been a good place to start. It certainly would have been a better question from him than "which meaning of 'arbitrary' did you mean?"

I'd like an answer to this question from him and then I'll finally post my suspicions.

[Guardian]

Incognito, thanks for clarifying, I think I understand what you are asking now.

Guardian, my issue is this: In the beginning of the game, you seemed intent on having everyone explain their stance about the Erg0 mini-wagon. Xylthixlm made a post seen here which leads me to believe that he was in favor of the Erg0 wagon but he doesn't follow up this statement with a vote on Erg0. After Xyl's statement, you questioned Xyl about which definition of "arbitrary" he was using and then you polled everyone else to try to find out their stance with respect to the wagon: Post 65. When you questioned Xyl about his usage of the word "arbitrary", why did you not question Xylthixlm about his lack of a vote against Erg0 when he seemed to be in favor of the wagon?

Well, in that post you quoted, I asked Xyl specifically about the word arbitrary, and I asked everyone to post thoughts on the wagon, or on another player (basically I asked everyone to get back to listing suspects and playing the game).

So, while I did not pick out Xyl specifically, I asked everyone -- Xyl was included in that.

If unsatisfied with that, and you are wondering why I didn't pick out Xyl for his inconsistency on Erg0 since I was so interested in Erg0, I have a few responses to that.

The first is that, like I said, I wasn't particularly interested in Erg0

per se

, I just wanted players to take a stand on other players and name their top suspects. When I made the post, I didn't comb over the thread to look for those who had taken stances on Erg0 or not -- I just noticed that the thread was getting somewhat de-railed and wanted to get it back on track. Considering that, it seems to be an arbitrary assignment of responsibility on me to call him out -- anyone could have pointed out that inconsistency of Xyl's, and I don't see why it should be incumbent upon me to do so.

The second is that, even if you are unsatisfied with the above, when I read that post of Xyl, I took it to mean that he was joking, so I didn't really see an inconsistency at all. The ellipse (...) and tone of his post made me think he was making a joke that discussion was interrupting lynching someone who he didn't even care enough about lynching to remember their name.

I hope that clarifies my non targeting him for you.

[Incognito]

Awesome.

Unvote; Vote: Guardian

I think Guardian is scum. Why? Let's have a look at what he's done this game.

1) Xylthixlm mentioned this previously and it's something I noticed also. Guardian has been asking a lot of questions, but I feel like he's asking them just for the sake of asking questions. I don't see any logical progression with 1) his choice of questions and 2) what he does with the answers he receives to his questions. The pattern that I've seen especially pre-Adel's case is Question - answer. Question - answer. Question - answer. I just feel that when a person is town he/she usually asks questions to try and find something and the questioning usually has some order and cohesion. The answers received will usually lead to some kind of resolution that you actually do something with. I think all of this is lacking in Guardian's bout of questions, and I feel like he's waiting for

someone else

to use his questions and the answers he receives to his questions to spur a case against the person he happens to be questioning.

2) I really disliked this post from Guardian: Post 74 and it troubles me that nobody called him out about it. Opie posed a case against Guardian and instead of responding to the case in a way that might serve to decrease the suspicions of both Jitsu and opie, he cast deflective suspicion back at both opie and Jitsu to completely spin the case around and target the both of them. His response is backhanded, and I would go as far as to say that his backhanded response to opie's case is what triggered the heightened suspicion that Adel has spurred to circulate around opie. There is no Adel algorithm to finding scum, people.

3) I already mentioned how Guardian seems to be asking questions for the sake of asking questions. Look at Guardian's posts following his backhanded response to opie:

Opie's post actually heightened my suspicion there -- I'd really like a good explanation from both opie, and Jitsu who categorically "liked opie's post" to explain why everyone voting Erg0 is worthy of suspicion.

Oh really? Where's your vote?

@Incognito: Not really, plus this game I promised myself that I would approach Adel with a clean slate.

Well, I think in our last game I over reacted to your methods a bit. I didn't hear you out. This go round I promise to hear you out.

Why did you make this promise, opie?

Are you gonna vote for him anytime soon?

unvote, vote:opie

obvscum trying to hard to be seen scumhunting.
This vote is good through to his lynch, which should take about six pages.

Could you explain this, possibly with reference to post #s and/or quotes?

Ah, so Adel did the grunt work for you.

Why do you think he was communicating with his scum buddies in his first post of the game? Also, can you re-clarify -- what exactly was he communicating to them?

Come again? You don't think it is a tell, now?

So, Adel, you think it was a tell, as in with that bit you crossed out, but not that he was communicating anything to his buddies?

FoS: opie

From Adel's answers, I think her case makes sense, and seems sincere. Adel is a tricky devil as scum, and in my experience often wrong as town, though :\.

Also, while opie answered my question of him well, I'd like to ask him further:
Why do you want to keep an open mind to Adel's methods, when she was wrong in the only game you were in with her?

I don't want to move my vote to opie quite yet. I want to re-read the full game when I get a chance. There is strong suspicion against opie and I don't want a quick wagon/forced claim -- at least not until I have re-read the game.

Questioning the case and giving an opie an FoS. Trying to make sure the case is bandwagon worthy and that everyone seems to be buying a bit, eh?

I tentatively support Adel's points on opie. I believe that she genuinely believes in them, but that doesn't make opie scum. However, the clarification she made about opie's first post, in addition to the last part about not recognizing things as they were, and instead nailing everyone on Erg0's wagon, make me want to vote him.

I am still very interested in what opie has to say, especially in response to my question in 178.

unvote: Erg0 vote: opie

And finally your vote. But before you vote, you make a few comments that are so meticulously placed that it seems pre-emptive. Are you trying to give yourself an out for if and when opie shows up as town? Oh but then it gets better!:

It seems rather that your 181 followed my 178, not the other way round, no?

You didn't vote in 178, therefor you were not on the wagon. You vote in 183.

Try harder.

You didn't express any suspicion of opie or intent to vote him until after I did.

Try harder.

Oh, but

you

didn't vote for opie until Adel used all of the questions you had been asking and did the actual grunt work until you

finally

decided to follow suit and give opie a vote of your own. Interesting.

4) Guardian responded to my question the way I thought he would but here's the kicker:

The second is that, even if you are unsatisfied with the above, when I read that post of Xyl, I took it to mean that he was joking, so I didn't really see an inconsistency at all. The ellipse (...) and tone of his post made me think he was making a joke that discussion was interrupting lynching someone who he didn't even care enough about lynching to remember their name.

So you were able to determine that Xyl was joking around in his post because he used an ellipsis and a certain tone but the opening posts made by Erg0 in which he includes smilies and chooses to day-vig someone for not knowing the capital of Australia weren't comical enough for you? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I think Guardian is scum, and I think he is the correct lynch for today because he conveniently took a comical mini-wagon against Erg0 in the beginning and spun the entire thing around to paint opie in a bad light.

[pickemgenius]

I'm not sold on Guardian atm tbh.

[Guardian]

I thought Erg0's joking was scummy. I thought Xyl's joking wasn't. If you find that arbitrary... it is.

Re: opie, I have played with Adel, and read games she has been in, and I didn't want to agree with her reasoning unless I was fairly sure it was sound. Not sure how that is scummy.

[Guardian]

Also, Incognito -- why wait until I answered? How could I have answered the question you asked differently and not have been found suspicious by you?

[Xylthixlm]

Also, Incognito -- why wait until I answered? How could I have answered the question you asked differently and not have been found suspicious by you?

If you knew what answer wouldn't be viewed as suspicious, would you have given that one?

[Guardian]

Also, Incognito -- why wait until I answered? How could I have answered the question you asked differently and not have been found suspicious by you?

If you knew what answer wouldn't be viewed as suspicious, would you have given that one?

I'd have given the same answer regardless.

That's not the point of my question.

The point is Incognito asks his question before posting his case on me, and then uses my response to his question in the case. I can't think of any way I could have answered that Incognito wouldn't have started his post with

"Awesome

vote: Guardian"

so again I wonder why he waited for me to respond/how I might have responded that would have changed his mind.

[Xylthixlm]

Matt_S's FoS on opie is really bugging me. It's so transparently opportunistic, it's almost too obvious for him to be scum. His FoS on me doesn't make sense to me either - I'm being too critical, but not arguing enough? I don't see his point.

Matt_S, do you agree with the arguments against opie? Why or why not? Why did you put an FoS on him

before

you read to see if the arguments are well grounded?

[Incognito]

That's not the point of my question.

The point is Incognito asks his question before posting his case on me, and then uses my response to his question in the case. I can't think of any way I could have answered that Incognito wouldn't have started his post with

"Awesome

vote: Guardian"

so again I wonder why he waited for me to respond/how I might have responded that would have changed his mind.

Guardian, it's simple really. I knew that Xyl's comment about the Erg0 wagon was a joke. I also knew that Erg0's opening comments were jokes as well, but for some reason, you decided to really push for responses to those comments which lead me and a few others to believe that you didn't see Erg0's statements as jokes. So I thought to myself: "Well, maybe this Guardian fellow just has a difficult time determining what's humor on the internet and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't want to miscategorize him as scum if he really has a difficult time making that distinction." Interestingly by responding the way you did, you proved without a shadow of a doubt quite the contrary - you're actually quite well-versed at determining the difference between a joke post and a serious one. You broke Xyl's posts down to his very ellipses.

By the way, there was a lot more to my case besides the difference between Erg0's joke post and Xyl's joke post but yet you chose to only respond to the last portion of my case.

I'm not sold on Guardian atm tbh.

I know. It's far too early to bus your buddy. Wait until he gets another vote or two.

[Adel]

At this point can anyone see Mat_S being scum independant of opie?


hmmm....

[Jitsu]

I need to do some heavy rereading to sort things out over the last few pages. I did do some rereading of Matt to prepare to answer Adel's question above, and I did notice something funny.


@Matt:

I'd like an explanation of your Post 114:

As for opie, he does seem to be trying pretty hard, referencing all the posts and whatnot, but I don't think that's voteworthy by itself.

After some rereading of your posts, I don't understand what you meant here. You say that Opie is trying hard but that's not worthy of a vote? It almost sounds here like you know Opie to be guilty and slipped.

Please explain.