Mini 1916: Buttersnap Shitfuckery (Game over, Town win!)

[Deadline Delivery]

♥

[Aristophanes]

I think I'm going to have to V/L.A. until Wednesday.

I'm fairly certain I won't have time to be here!

Will check in occasionally and can probably post a bit, just not a lot.

[Aristophanes]

Want to sort anything before I go DD?

[Deadline Delivery]

Why you on VLA

I has sads

[Aristophanes]

Why you on VLA

I has sads

No sads required! I'm off to Toronto to see a girl :O


Then with work and other usual commitments I just won't have time.

I will try to post from work though!

[Deadline Delivery]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

That's fun!!

[Aristophanes]

Yeah!!!!!

I'll tell you all about it when I get back! =D

[Deadline Delivery]

I wonder if there's any way to make Jesus Christ sheep me

pedit okay!!!!

[Belisarius]

Official Vote Count 1.14

Rautherdir: (1)

Chickadee

Aristophanes: (1)

schadd_

Shadoweh: (2)

Almost Chara, Chimchar

schadd_: (3)

Shadoweh, Vegito, Piggygal15

Vegito: (2)

Leonshade, Prism

Piggygal15: (1)

Aristophanes

Prism: (2)

Socrates, Deadline Delivery

Socrates: (1)

Rautherdir

Chickadee: (1)

Jesus Christ

Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-06-12 15:05:00)

Mod Notes:

None

[Chickadee]

Vote invalid. I'm atheist.

[Prism]

@nancy: Pretty awful dodge of my question there. You're right, it was meant to suggest that at least one of your reads on me/Vegito is wrong. Can you guess which one I think it is?

Also contradicted yourself a bit. Quoted meta reason for my being scum was that I "didn't have the fire". First thing you pointed to was, your description not mine, me "going full ham with a D1 hardbus". These seem pretty similar to me, and again my PM to you shows exactly how prideful I am when it comes to flipping scum vs. stacked tables. And again, there are cases where I did not bring the fire as town until later down the line. What exactly is it that points to this being my scum meta?

I don't think either of these are AI, just big problems when it comes to sorting me correctly. Can you actually engage with me here rather than simply tunnel?

Whenever I eventually die, and I see the light at the end of the tunnel...I hope Belisarius is that light

[Prism]

As a heads up I've got a busy day ahead so I won't really have time to read until tomorrow, but next projects are reading 1) Shadow 2) Chickadee 3) Socrates's reasoning behind the RR vote

I'm busy just thinking of how great this game is. Thanks Beli!

[Vegito]

What prompted the avatar change Prism? Who is your new avatar?

[Vegito]

First thing I wanted to do was reread some of Chickadee's posts; when I read them last I remember being impressed at a glance (and happy as hell that someone was putting in major work) but am actually going to dig into them and try to shore up a read now.

[Leonshade]

Leonshade
Not really telling, and might just be nitpick here, but I noticed where everyone else was saying their alignment, Leon just quoted to say "same" instead of typing out "I'm town" or something of the like. I find that interesting. Not necessarily AI but interesting nonetheless.

?

And for the record, I don't have a post restriction. I just really hate Canadians.

S-same.

I'm town, the same as my *urrp* father before me, and his fa-father before him, and...

Uh, that's not what *urrp* happened. I d-don't think you're intentionally misrepping me, but I don't know why you considered that relevant to mention in your reads list, either. Short of me having a post restriction that forbids me from saying I'm town, I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid saying that as scum.

Is that the only impression you've gotten of me?

[Leonshade]

T-to be honest, I *urrp* just skimmed the last few pages to see what people were saying of me.

Will you start scumreading me now? I just acted town early on to get the easy townread, then started coasting. nancy-head thought Vegito was scum, what if I'm his buddy who voteparked on him for ages, doing so for weak reasons even after I rescinded my SR? (Sorta irrelevant after nancy-head stopped SRing Vegito). Now I'm doing WIFOM so that you'll think I must be town, since "scum wouldn't argue over why they're scum".

---

I feel that a good chunk of the playerbase hasn't contributed that much, but I haven't yet sorted who are doing so in a scummy way, versus just not that active.

Uhh, I went to check schadd's ISO to see if his coasting is scummy, and why is he voting for Aristophanes? It's literally a naked vote dropped after RVS was over, with no word of Aristo before or after.

Almost Chara's low activity I buy being for non-game reasons, as Almost's activity is down universally. Hopefully that slot will be able to pick up the pace.

I didn't really read Prism's posts in Girls heart Girls, so I don't know what his scumgame looks like. I should do that, I guess.

Rautherdir still technically ignored my question, but at least he answered it in a context unrelated to my question.

[Leonshade]

Chimchar hasn't done much. It's more lurking than anything inherently scummy, but it's just lurking nonetheless.

S-schadd *urrp* feels the scummiest of the coasters.

VOTE: schadd

[Vegito]

Ok, finally some time for a proper catch up and read-through up to this point. Be prepared, this is where I obvtown. Wait for it. Waaaaiiiit for iiiiit.

I'm finding that a lot of my reads (along this vein) are based on how I expect people to behave intuitively (for example I've never actually seen or read nancy's scumgame I just have an idea of how I think she'd play based on how she talks and based on some similarities I see between us) - this is one of those reads along that vein but I don't think that this is how Chickadee approaches writing a fairly sizeable wall as scum.

I think that her misunderstanding our slot is genuine and I actually think that at the end of the day it probably makes her more likely to be town. For one, things like the not understanding that I was referring to two DD votes instead of two people's votes is an understandable mistake even if things like the "why do you have different reads here" are a bit less so, but I can't see her intentionally misrepping us as scum as an effort to mislynch us and I'd imagine she'd be more inclined to have a perspective like this if she was approaching us with the knowledge that we were town already.

Her Radical Rat comparison I can't talk about now because they have no completed games together.

I don't understand how Aristophanes's ISO after #174 is any different from his ISO before #174; he had two posts that seemed kind of serious but he hasn't really started scumhunting and I don't think that anyone would argue that he has started scumhunting yet.

Opposing post restrictions meaning opposing alignments is a Socrates theory that's been brought up before and while it sort of sounds good I don't think there are any compelling reasons to believe that it's the case unless there's some secret I'm not privvy to.

I don't really mind her calling Rautherdir out for rolefishing; I think that it's the type of thing that comes from town way more often than not (especially when newer players!) but the logic to get there is a bit counterintuitive.

I like in general that she's looking for people to claim their alignments. I think it's because she thinks that DD was softing lie detector (which is consistent which the townread on that slot) which almost certainly not the case.

I think she's being too soft on schadd but I don't really think that's intentional; they both sync up over Rautherdir and rolefishing and also zeroing in on schadd's traitor theory is a good look in my opinion because it's probably the only real thing that he's done all game.

I think that her observation on Socrates is interesting because it's something that I've noticed as well; when I've played with him in the past he's tended to be a bit more pointed in his posting (which is similar to the difference she's describing here).

I think that her "something bothers me, gotta find it, oh fuck it was the person I was pushing already!" post looked genuine.

[Vegito]

Overall I think she's genuinely trying to solve the game.

I think that some of her pushes where she misunderstands stuff (in particular in her push on me/Leonshade) would be pretty weird if she was scum since as scum she wouldn't be expecting to see big zingers like that on townies.

I think that her reads so far are original and a bit against the grain (schadd read stands out in particular) and I don't think she'd shut down schadd line of thought completely as scum, whether he is a partner or whether he's a mislynch currently waiting to happen.

I think she has decent conviction in things like her Rautherdir read and some of the posting around it shows that she's thinking about her reads and think I would be pretty surprised by the smoothness of that progression in particular if she was scum here.

[Shadoweh]

kiiiinda sounds like "hey you're actually wrong on one of your scumreads there buddy" so maybe I can just go hey why you so cheekyyyy Shadoweh

Yeah, it kind of sucks that we're not the same alignment though. You could have neighbourized me and we'd have a party like old times. What's it like being stuck talking to Prism and [redacted] all night?

VOTE: Prism

Being cheeky and dramatic is the only way I have fun in these games. You should understand since your posting also seems to be the 'rub people the wrong way to make them react to you' style. Are you a Katsuki alt or something?

[Leonshade]

O-ohhh that lie detector thing explains *urrp* a lot.

Neat role.

[Vegito]

The way the read was given wasn't really conducive to getting deeper into Leonshade, which is typically what you want to do with a weak read, and effectively just ended the back and forth. It's not really meant to bait anyone into questioning it, either, due to the way the sequence is structured, in that necessarily the reasoning is Leon's responses in the prior posts in the sequence. There's just very little attempt to utilize the read as a means to further engage, despite this being what you want to do with a weak read (Keeping in mind that I think a strong read on Leon for this is absurd)

We've played together frequently enough where I think you realize that I am not an insanely meticulous player like you are and the reason I respect you is because you think about your actions much more than the average player does. Right now you're taking a snapshot of my Leonshade read and act that I'm not sorting him at all instead of looking at the read as a whole; you're right that

at that point

I wasn't horribly worried about sorting Leonshade; his initial responses to me seemed town and my experience with him is in Civilization Mafia (obvious town, observed his play), OOTS (obvious town or third party or whatever), and Girls <3 Girls (obvious scum) and so I don't feel particularly worried about reading him. I think you're wrong that there wasn't anything to engage the read on; my "LEONSHADE IS OFFICIALLY TOWN" post was worded as a strong read would be and providing strong town reads early very frequently and constantly freaks people out, but, in isolation, I don't think this was a bad point to make.

I do think that you've been ignoring (not reading because you don't have time?) my Leon read as a whole and ignoring his play as a whole; I think it's pretty obvious that I am sorting him still and it is an ongoing process but instead of looking at my approach as a whole you're taking one moment that happened early and acting like it's all that ever happened which is a tactic that I employ often as scum and is something I can definitely see you doing since it's so hard to explain what exactly you're doing. If you're town here, you're either expecting me to play more like you or you're not looking at the whole picture (or you've simply decided to ignore the rest of it for whatever reason) and none of that really fits from what I expect of your town game.

[Vegito]

A lot of the reads this game (see: Radical Rat vs. Doubting Thomases) I think are nonsense. Sheeping Jesus is more of a sign of town indecision than it is scum trying to coast. Scum either pretend to be trying to form reads or just don't post.

I'm not sure what the Doubting Thomases is referring to, but you acting like sheeping Jesus is a sign of town indecision is the gospel and obviously so is ridiculous especially when Radical Rat already explicit said why he was sheeping Jesus and the answer wasn't "man I just couldn't decide what to do so I sheeped Jesus". If you're making the argument that people who are uncomfortable playing scum never ever avoid getting into the nitty gritty of a game by joking around for a while, then you don't really have much experience with people who are uncomfortable playing scum and if you really need concrete example of things like this happening, I'm fairly confident I'd be able to dig some up for you. You're right that once you hit a certain level of comfortableness as scum that you tend to either lurk or try to fake posts, but that isn't universal at all.

[Socrates]

Only time for a quick post at the moment.

One thing I feel I should point out to Prism: The person who gave the initial townread on Leon that you scumread was Nacho. The person who was attacking you for a thin opener without directly addressing that point was Majiffy, and when Nacho showed up he did address it directly. How does this impact your read on that slot? How are you differentiating between the two heads?

I kind of WANT Nancy to actually be scum here just because the joke's only funny if she's telling the truth.

Leonshade's is being a little TOO annoyed at being town-read for my liking. Maybe he's taking it as an insult to his caliber as a player?

I still need to look up that game Nacho mentioned. It won't happen today, unfortunately. The first thing I want to see is merely how much work Scum!Nacho is willing to put into fabricating reads, though of course I hope to find more than that.

@Ari: When you posted after being prodded yesterday, did you then read the thread like you intimated you were going to, or what?

[Socrates]

Frankly I looked at that interaction and went "Leon is town" in my head myself without having any history with him as a player at all. Throwing the first punch while still talking it out with his target and ultimately showing doubt -> Town.