Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[Accountant]

I mean notsure actually said what I was trying to say there Accountant

And both of you are wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean notsure actually said what I was trying to say there Accountant

And both of you are wrong.

Why?

[Accountant]

His characterization of town is sketchy. You are an experienced player and I'm sure you know enough to know that town is not in fact hyperattentive machines at all times. Furthermore, mafia can skim and wagon who they like but whether they do so is dependent on their personality and not their alignment. They have to read up anyway to justify their wagons.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright that makes sense. I agree that town isn't always -there-. I feel notsure hit the nail on the head when he said what NTRP was doing is characteristic of newbscum.

[Accountant]

What NTRP is doing is characteristic of newbs in general who are overwhelmed by the text walls

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I think it would depend on the quality of the scumplayer and how hard they're trying to keep up with the game.
There are some instances where scum is just going to casually follow along and just do whatever they can to coast along without paying attention, others where the scum just says whatever comes to mind and doesn't worry about how they're perceived [a little more rare I think], but I think any scumplayer who's putting in any kind of effort into the game and cares about how they're being perceived is going to have to put in significantly more effort into reading the game to try and create a train of thought that's consistent and seems real. It's generally harder for people to fake their mindset than to just inhabit it.

So, tldr: accountant is probably right that scum with any kind of chops is going to spend more time reading than posting, while town is probably going to say things without thinking about it as much.

In terms of where I'm at right now, I'm being pretty lazy!
My lazy reads would be that one of notsure/realpaul is probably scum because something feels off there, but I should really throw some effort at trying to parse what's going on there
as the tone of Realpaul's posts feel fake to me [which could be a general tone thing] and the over the top nature of notsure's posts feel fake to me [which could also be a general tone thing].

My strongest scumread was Klick for a while.
Was kind of hoping to see him do more before saying so to see if I could catch him off-guard but he's gone so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This isn't really a real post.
Real posting probably comes tomorrow night at this rate.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and Gamma's kind of pinging me a little bit.
That's a thing.

[NotTheRealPaul]

DRK WASNT PUSHING YOU AS SCUM GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. HE NEVER EVEN VOTED YOU.

YOU ARE/WERE OVERREACTING (ironic cuz im yelling I know)

if you think he was pushing you then we read the situation differently and we cant do shit about that.

and I'll admit your answer was in the back of my mind but certainly not part of any of my reasoning if that makes sense.

And lastly, I DONT JUDGE YOU FOR BEING DEFENSIVE. well I kinda do. Its that there was no actual pressure. You are so concerned with implied pressure, not even a single vote, and you lashed out. So yea its cuz you were extremely over defensive.

Like Im starting to think we are misunderstanding each other.

lemme get this straight. You think DRK was pushing you for weak reasons early. You saw me say entrances should be looked at through the prism of D2/3. Thus you angry when I dont scumread DRK.

This is how I saw it. You and DRK have theory argument. DRK asks you about reads, something relevant to the game. You lash out and call him scum. At that point your past the entrance. Let me be more specific when I say entrance I mean your RVS. Like your OP. So I didnt view that as DRK pushing you on your entrance. Heck I didnt think DRK was even pushing you. He was questioning you on your reads/lack of willingness to give them. Then you continue to accuse him of being scum for which I still dont see the reason for. Then you latch onto me as I say I agree with DRK because you perceived his questioning as a push on your entrance when in fact it was not.

Does that make sense? Tell me what im missing here.

[MuttonChopMagic]

DRK and Cheet are both more experienced than me.

More votes on Backhand for his latest active lurk post would be nice.

drk... huh. not sure why I've never heard of him then.
anyways, my vote is metaphorically on both backhand and Paul my friend

[NotTheRealPaul]

Well thats another person who reads my tone as off. Like I really dont get it. My tone seems to be universally scummy despite me not freakin being scum. Like is there something I do to fix this or do I say fuck it and let town waste time based on a shitty gut and inability to read tone?

Asking as a newbie to you experienced people.

wait mcm you're vote is on two people?

[MuttonChopMagic]

oh, I think I've played a game or two with drk, I understand
and I accept pauls awful ate for now,
VOTE: backhand

[Gamma Emerald]

Ehh
I kinda feel like without the not reading point my case is weak
Bump NTRP above MCM for now I guess
UNVOTE:

[NotTheRealPaul]

Alright Notsure I think I kinda get it after rereading. You think DRK should've waited to analyze what you said till later. I disagree. I think entrances can be looked at through the lense of D2/3 if you are struggling. Yes this isnt exactly what I said earlier, so I apologize.

Now, what DRK did push or no was fine. Because you have to start somewhere. Like you cant wait till D2 to analyze entrances and start sorting cuz you'll never get there if you dont pick up something early and run with it. Accountant did a fine job doing this with my entrance to sort me (either that or just force me to do shit). Does that make more sense?

[Accountant]

K I was wrong that wasn't backhands post, he still needs votes though.

Cheetory what are your thoughts on backhand

[Accountant]

Between paul and notsure I think paul is more likely to be scum but I also dont think it cant be tvt and I'd like to hear why cheet thinks its not

[notsure]

Alright Notsure I think I kinda get it after rereading. You think DRK should've waited to analyze what you said till later. I disagree. I think entrances can be looked at through the lense of D2/3 if you are struggling. Yes this isnt exactly what I said earlier, so I apologize.

Now, what DRK did push or no was fine. Because you have to start somewhere. Like you cant wait till D2 to analyze entrances and start sorting cuz you'll never get there if you dont pick up something early and run with it. Accountant did a fine job doing this with my entrance to sort me (either that or just force me to do shit). Does that make more sense?

Yes. But it's weird that people go after people based on so little at the beginning of the game. I mean how can someone not be frustrated when they are being questioned on reads and the game just started. I mean it's dumb, annoying, and it vibes really weird. I mean it's funny that people wanted to do that, but they had a problem with Grendel's questionnaire. I mean yeah, starting behavior can be used later, but so can the questionnaire. Anyway, where is Grendel?

Unvote for now. This seems legit.

VOTE:

So, tldr: accountant is probably right that scum with any kind of chops is going to spend more time reading than posting, while town is probably going to say things without thinking about it as much.

Why would Town say things without thinking about it as much? That makes no sense. They have doubts because they don't know everyone's alignment. Everything they put forward is going to have thought put behind it or they don't really believe someone is scum and that's silly. If anything I could see Townies TUNNELING because they go after their strongest reads, while mafia can backtrack and appear to be rational and going after what they think is a viable target. I just don't know how you can agree with that. Care to explain why you are so quick to agree with Accountant?

[Hiraki]

Reason why: He's being dodgy and appears to half-ass pay attention to people he has put in the spotlight. It shows he's not really fully-invested in what he's saying and yes I do think he's scum.

mb im thinking too highly of notsure rn

oh no now there is a lot of pressure

should I make up some scum reads? will that make it go away?

And this is the epitome of Paul posting that I just cannot shake a SR off. This post and the last post reek of forced reactions. I believe that Paul is playing this way because he thinks that as town this is the best way to react under pressure. However, since he isn't town, he is unaware of how to actually act under pressure normally.

Haven't caught up yet, or don't want to? Whatcha thinking?

what??????

You shouldn't have such lofty expectations of N_M.

I think this was directed to Backhand, just to clarify the record.

This indicates you aren't paying attention to things. It's a proven fact that scum don't have to read the Game as closely as they know everyone's alignment.

whoever told you this was wrong and bad at the game

I read this and thought Gamma stated it incorrectly. I think it's more that they are more likely to slip up about knowing everything and therefore don't keep everything in mind. I don't quite 100% abide to it either but it's not as abnormal as the original statement.

Alright, first of all, I was considering unvoting now that we're at 4 votes on Paul, but it's interesting that he says I misread or didn't read what DRK posted, but makes no actual case about it...Funny cause I don't remember that being true, other than misinterpreting what was said because I was annoyed. Not sure how that makes me your high scumread right now...unless I'm your best bet at a deflection.

old scum me would never make such an insinuating post - SR is off the table for now

I think DRK is the most experienced here.

Oh and Gamma's kind of pinging me a little bit.
That's a thing.

Honestly getting TRs from Gamma, why does this keep happening

3 things i wanna go over after this short catch-up in the next post

A) backhand posting
B) MCM vote progression (as mentioned previously)
C) whatever else was mentioned previously

[notsure]

hmmm, Hikari seems like a detached observer...

[NotTheRealPaul]

Alright Notsure I think I kinda get it after rereading. You think DRK should've waited to analyze what you said till later. I disagree. I think entrances can be looked at through the lense of D2/3 if you are struggling. Yes this isnt exactly what I said earlier, so I apologize.

Now, what DRK did push or no was fine. Because you have to start somewhere. Like you cant wait till D2 to analyze entrances and start sorting cuz you'll never get there if you dont pick up something early and run with it. Accountant did a fine job doing this with my entrance to sort me (either that or just force me to do shit). Does that make more sense?

Yes. But it's weird that people go after people based on so little at the beginning of the game. I mean how can someone not be frustrated when they are being questioned on reads and the game just started. I mean it's dumb, annoying, and it vibes really weird. I mean it's funny that people wanted to do that, but they had a problem with Grendel's questionnaire. I mean yeah, starting behavior can be used later, but so can the questionnaire. Anyway, where is Grendel?

Unvote for now. This seems legit.

VOTE:

So, tldr: accountant is probably right that scum with any kind of chops is going to spend more time reading than posting, while town is probably going to say things without thinking about it as much.

Why would Town say things without thinking about it as much? That makes no sense. They have doubts because they don't know everyone's alignment. Everything they put forward is going to have thought put behind it or they don't really believe someone is scum and that's silly. If anything I could see Townies TUNNELING because they go after their strongest reads, while mafia can backtrack and appear to be rational and going after what they think is a viable target. I just don't know how you can agree with that. Care to explain why you are so quick to agree with Accountant?

Okay I'll table this after this but I wanna respond here.

At the beginning of the game you have to go after people for little to nothing because there is nothing to go off. Like thats how games start. Someone starts a wagon, push, etc and judges the wagonees reaction.

You need to understand that not everyone plays like you. There are different townie playstyles. When Im a town I play really off the cuff. I rarely go back and check and simply say whats on my mind because 99% of the time im phone posting. Sometimes I will say something idiotic or mix something up but thats simply because I type what happens in my head and post usually without too much editing.

Okay I think im done here. I really wanna see what Hikari has to say about MCM's vote progression. I think he has mentioned it in his catchup post and now here and my curiosity is piqued

[Hiraki]

MCM -

I wrote a lot about Grendel but then threw it all out once MCM townread him. I only have one question there - can you emphasize where you saw Grendel posting take a turn for the better and how?

After that, everything is very clear. I think when reading every post, MCM's posts can become very very very weird, especially due to the post-restriction (regardless of whether or not it is self imposed). Clear TR and anyone struggling to read him should ISO him. I think the vote progression stuff pinged around the Raya vote and the quick switch but it is completely justified.

Backhand -

Upon reading the thread the first time, I thought there was something very obvious that Backhand was doing. I do agree that he does not have a great amount of substantial content but I also think cheetory is in that category and half the playerbase is TRing him - not for bad reasons either. I don't see it from the ISO. Just a lot of null points that I don't agree with (especially the MCM stuff and N_M stuff). However, that's not to say that there is a clear effort to try and sort out if his vote is on scum or not. 212 and 223 are very very civil posts from someone looking for answers. I can't TR because I can't agree with the method used but I definitely cannot SR either.

Which means that at this point I really want to examine the votes on the wagon -

@Grendel - is Post 184 the only basis for the SR on Backhand?

@Accountant - can you tell how Post 318 pinged you?

I don't like how 3 of my TRs have voted this same person and I really don't understand any of the votes (excluding MCM). Could just be me but I am entirely doubtful on that part.

[Gamma Emerald]

hmmm, Hikari seems like a detached observer...

So? Is that a scumtell?

[notsure]

I gotta go, but throwing this out there now

Not_Mafia bigbenwd --- ???
DeathRowKitty --- Been gone a while...
Cheetory6 --- notsure
Hiraki Raya36 - slightly scummy, detached observer, answered the questionnaire with little content, making it harder to judge them beginning posts
CCC --- still want an answer on that possible slip-up post
Grendel --- Where you at?
MuttonChopMagic --- Mutton seems Town to me.
notsure -- obviously scum (yes, it's a joke)
Backhand --- Reads kind of null, maybe slightly scummy. makes some good posts that discuss whether players seem town aligned in their motivations, puts a vote on MCM, talks it out, but just leaves the vote...hmm.
Accountant --- Seems pretty Town, other than saying Town doesn't pay attention, but mafia does. Townies in general pay attention when they put someone in the spotlight. strange, but probably a misunderstanding or something.
NotTheRealPaul -- how do i say this notsure. have to think about him some more now.
Klick --- is this person even playing?
Gamma Emerald -- strong town read. I'm just going to jump in his pocket, if he doesn't mind.

[notsure]

hmmm, Hikari seems like a detached observer...

So? Is that a scumtell?

YES

[MuttonChopMagic]

I can already tell this game will be a pain
grendel, link me where rvs has caught scum mayn
drk, suck my left nut
klick I like but
drk not so much
it's ok though I'll be towns crutch
cheetory is town i think
drk is over explaining and being a stink
I like gamma for green
notsure what alignment not sure could be
I think Paul is getting too much shit
but wagoning a newb is fine, at least a bit

https://forum.starmen.net/forum/Storage ... l-Question
Its an offsite game, but used RQS and it helped me identify the players {Dipper, PigsmaskJames} There were other reads I got from it, but I'm not interested in doing leg work for you atm.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67181
Ironicly my own reads that I got from RQS were less accurate then Egg's observations. Egg called out Masquerade as scum, and was correct. RQS provided a start to that suspicion.

Not interested in sharing results from any games where I was not known as "Grendel"

Anyway, Your reads appear to be:
Town: Klick, Cheetory, Gamma
Null: Unsure
Getting too much flack: Not Puel
Scum: Grendel, DRK

Can you explain what Not Peul getting too much flack means for your read on Accountant? As they led that pressure.

let's do a pbpa before I sleep
rqs, fuck off creep
le hilarious shitpost, you should be a comedian
more buddying of cheeto, the votes should be stampedin
oh look, third post in a row about cheeto
and more buddying... not tryna repeat though
67 is pretty gross in a different way
inventing some b.s. about rqs catching scum today
the pedit itself is even worse I think
but people discredit lamist as a tell so I won't make a stink
oh look, he's not thrilled with me, nice reasoning bro
and now the reasoning in 92... gross
I'm detached from the game state? checking boxes? fuck off
your rqs is what made the "game state" aloft
95 wording is really weird
pbpa out, my vote stays herr

The crux of your case against me looks like "Grendel is Buddying Cheetory", "Grendel's reasoning is gross" and "Grendel is voting me, Belh!"

--Elaborate on why these things are scummy to you--

I'm not sure if it means anything AI yet, but I am interested at the contrast in tone between these posts and your first. I want to jump on it and say that its scum over compensating for getting called out. But part of me feels that your emotion is genuine in said posts.

DO you have much offsite experience Mutton?

this is where my read started changing - he provides examples with ranging

[MuttonChopMagic]

What do you think of Mutten's OP. It read as super detached from the games state. More like checking a box for required partipation then genuine content imo

I disagree. Mutton's OP was perfectly fine. You probably mixed it up with Paul's OP.

I think that Not Paul’s worst offense was only partipating in the RQS and not commenting on the game state itself. Which is a moderately scummy reaction to RQS. His answers also seemed oddly insecure. The self vote is just null, and silly.

Spoiler:

First game here in a while. I'm aflutter with emotion!

@All

1. What is your preferred alignment?
2. On a scale of one to ten how collaborative a player are you and why?
3. How important is it to take other players personalities into account when forming reads on them?
4. What player do you have the most experience with on this roster?
5. What are you feeling as you enter this mini's D1?

1. Never been a scum but I want to play as one. I like knowing who is what alignment.

2. Im pretty sheepy but occasionally I try to form my own reads and fail miserably. Probably a solid 7.

3. Mehh. Personality can be faked. If you know them really well/played with them a lot then sure I guess you should take it into account.

4. I have very little (like none) experience with anyone but GE and muttonchop I am currently am in a game with.

5. Sleepy. Its 9 pm here and I need to wake up early. Gnight.

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

I think what stood out to me about mutton was that he was incredibly detached his first post was, so much so that the points of discussions he highlighted looked stretched. His vote seemed less like, “I’m voting scum”, and more like, “I’m voting whoever is getting attention.” ei Cheetory

I guess standing back from them now Not Paul’s entrance looks as scummy as mutton’s entrance.

Muttons dynamic also started changing dynamically with his next posts. I'm gnawing on what that means currently.

I thought this showed genuine thought - if it's fake, I bought