The gist of it is that Alchemist doesn't understand the difference between making a pragmatic vote in an effort to lynch scum before deadline and trying to solve the problem of my reads sucking, which is not in my control. And he's decided that that one thing is scum indicative and that nothing else I say matters. (Which is, incidentally, an argument I used as scum in my first game onsite.)
I originally townread you because I thought 184 was too weird to be scum, but I'm pretty sure that I had no idea what I was talking about. (Even if you are town, I think "too weird to be scum" is just something I wanted to be a thing and not actually a thing.) The change was brought on by the fact that there were reasons to townread basically everybody, and so some of them had to be invalid. (And yes Mario voting you did cause me to reevaluate AFTER I did the sheep vote. Don't dig deep into my chronological thought process unless you like confusing messes.)
Your scumread and vote on me is very weak. Like I mentioned almost all the votes on me (except for Alchemist's) are, but I don't really see much genuine-looking scumhunting from you in addition to that.
Finally, the way the wagons on you and me rose and fell makes me feel like we're not both town. If we were both town scum would have probably been able to push one of our wagons through without opening themselves up to a deadline wagon that could fall anywhere. (And plus your wagon at its highest in 329 is all town.)
I originally townread you because I thought 184 was too weird to be scum, but I'm pretty sure that I had no idea what I was talking about. (Even if you are town, I think "too weird to be scum" is just something I wanted to be a thing and not actually a thing.) The change was brought on by the fact that there were reasons to townread basically everybody, and so some of them had to be invalid. (And yes Mario voting you did cause me to reevaluate AFTER I did the sheep vote. Don't dig deep into my chronological thought process unless you like confusing messes.)
Your scumread and vote on me is very weak. Like I mentioned almost all the votes on me (except for Alchemist's) are, but I don't really see much genuine-looking scumhunting from you in addition to that.
Finally, the way the wagons on you and me rose and fell makes me feel like we're not both town. If we were both town scum would have probably been able to push one of our wagons through without opening themselves up to a deadline wagon that could fall anywhere. (And plus your wagon at its highest in 329 is all town.)
I scumread you because your votes had very little reasoning behind them, such as your votes on BTD-6 and Gamma. Do you still find them scummy? What's changed?
As for your final point I don't understand how that leads to me being scum.
In post 78, Raya36 wrote:I'm definitely reading Gamma as neutral leaning town as of now. Roleclaiming so early in the game may not necessarily point towards town but in my opinion it points more towards town than it does mafia. It just seems way too early for mafia to claim. It seems more like a last resort to me.
I'm not really sure what to think of those still voting for Gamma. I'm definitely squinting at them but as of now I'm not really confortable reading them as town or scum. I'm interested to hear the answers they have to Alchemist's questions and maybe a more thorough explanation as to why they are still voting for Gamma. (@MarioManiac4 @Flubbernugget)
In post 361, Raya36 wrote:Scum Lean
-Dany Very little actual content coming from Dany and I still don't like his recent sheepiness. I did find one post of his that included some reads although the two town reads were only because of claims and that was the only reasoning given. He doesn't appear to be even trying to scumhunt to me.
-Flubber 132 sums up my read on Flubber pretty well. Since then besides his defence posts to 132 nearly every post was only 1 sentence long and had little to no game advancing content.
Neutral/Unsure
-SS
-BTD6
-Draynth - Interested in their reads list promised for today
-Gamma
Town Lean
-MM4
-Alchemist
I would be happy voting for either of my two scum leans.
What bumped Gamma back down to unsure in your reads?
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
What's your reason for BTD? I don't see anything about him in your ISO.
In post 359, MarioManiac4 wrote:like a lot what bothers me so much is that you care about making your argument independently and making sure everyone knows it's independent etc.
i feel like you're more about presentation than substance at this point
This, I don't see him scum hunting and when he doesn't feel authentic.
In post 453, iDanyboy wrote:I scumread you because your votes had very little reasoning behind them, such as your votes on BTD-6 and Gamma. Do you still find them scummy? What's changed?
As for your final point I don't understand how that leads to me being scum.
Those votes had reasoning. I never found Gamma that scummy but I voted him because I felt the game was going nowhere and I was contributing to it. I find him a bit scummy but I know he's lynchbait often and his claim was very towny.
I voted BTD6 for his awful vote on me, and I still find him scummy though I thought 371 was somewhat towny.
As for my final point, your wagon had 3 townies on it and scum never showed any interest in pushing it through, even when mine met resistance.
In post 165, iDanyboy wrote:Without stating. It's in towns best interest to explain your reasoning thats why I think it's scummy.
Not in town's best interest does not equal scummy.
Not to mention that you turned around and gave a reason in 173 why withholding reasons might be in town's interest.
Your right, It's not scummy my bad UNVOTE:
At the time you thought it was scummy (I know you don't anymore, that's not my point) so why
did
you do the exact same thing?
I thought it was different when I was doing it.
Since your voting me you must think I'm scummier than GE, why is that?
Anyway, while I'm waiting for answers from Raya, I think it'd be naive to think that there were no scum at all on the Flubber lynch, so right now I think there was at least one. Removing Mario, that leaves Alchemist, Gamma, Raya and Something_Smart.
who do the four of you think is scum and why?
I edited the quote into spoiler for ya - Ari
Last edited by Aristophanes on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
In post 453, iDanyboy wrote:I scumread you because your votes had very little reasoning behind them, such as your votes on BTD-6 and Gamma. Do you still find them scummy? What's changed?
As for your final point I don't understand how that leads to me being scum.
Those votes had reasoning. I never found Gamma that scummy but I voted him because I felt the game was going nowhere and I was contributing to it. I find him a bit scummy but I know he's lynchbait often and his claim was very towny.
I voted BTD6 for his awful vote on me, and I still find him scummy though I thought 371 was somewhat towny.
As for my final point, your wagon had 3 townies on it and scum never showed any interest in pushing it through, even when mine met resistance.
So the vote on me for being on the MM4 wagon wasn't serious?
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 444, Draynth wrote:
You say that you scumread Flubber due to his unwillingness to advance the game. why did this make you think he was scum as opposed to just lazy town?
why
exactly
were you unsure of SS / BTD / me / Gamma, you also mentioned you were interested in the reads list I promised but you didn't comment on it at all.
I didn't think Flubber was just lazy town because of the amount he was posting. He clearly wasn't too lazy to check the thread and catch up and post so I thought it would be more likely he was scum posting to appear active and helpful while really not being that.
As for why I'm unsure about my neutral/unsure reads it's for the most part simply because nothing posted has pinged me either way. I'm not getting any scum or town vibes strong enough to put them under either section. (Gamma reasoning below)
I was mainly interested in your reads list so I could get a better read on you. I never responded because I didn't have much to say on it other than I like your points and I'm getting a bit of a town lean from you.
I'm getting really mixed vibes since that post. I like that he's asking questions and encouraging discussion but he doesn't seem to be sharing much of his own reads or trying very hard to scumhunt. His posts are for the most part very short and a lot of them are just asking questions. Also I hardly see any responces to the answered questions. An example of this is when he asked me for a reads list which I have and then all he responded with was telling me that I put my scum and town in the wrong order.
In post 444, Draynth wrote:
You say that you scumread Flubber due to his unwillingness to advance the game. why did this make you think he was scum as opposed to just lazy town?
why
exactly
were you unsure of SS / BTD / me / Gamma, you also mentioned you were interested in the reads list I promised but you didn't comment on it at all.
I didn't think Flubber was just lazy town because of the amount he was posting. He clearly wasn't too lazy to check the thread and catch up and post so I thought it would be more likely he was scum posting to appear active and helpful while really not being that.
I disagree with this. It's very easy to catch up with somewhat pointless posts, I used to do it a ton because I was lazy and flaky. It's anti-town sure, he's not helping catch scum, but I really don't think it's a scummy thing to do (there's a fine line between anti-town and scummy in this case imo).
In post 463, Raya36 wrote:
As for why I'm unsure about my neutral/unsure reads it's for the most part simply because nothing posted has pinged me either way. I'm not getting any scum or town vibes strong enough to put them under either section. (Gamma reasoning below)
I find it hard to believe that over 19 pages of material you didn't see anything noteworthy at all for 4 players.
In post 463, Raya36 wrote:
I was mainly interested in your reads list so I could get a better read on you. I never responded because I didn't have much to say on it other than I like your points and I'm getting a bit of a town lean from you.
Ok, cool, then say that! You say below that you don't like the fact that Gamma doesn't really respond to the answers he got, but didn't you do the same thing in this case? I know you didn't ask for it specifically but you did mention that you were interested in what would come of it.
I'm getting really mixed vibes since that post. I like that he's asking questions and encouraging discussion but he doesn't seem to be sharing much of his own reads or trying very hard to scumhunt.
Fair enough
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
In post 165, iDanyboy wrote:Without stating. It's in towns best interest to explain your reasoning thats why I think it's scummy.
But you didn't state reasons either. I definitely agree it's in Town's best interests to state reasoning but I disagree on it being scummy. Even though they shouldn't, Town make naked votes pretty frequently - far too often to be able to just slap scumreads on everyone who does it. I mean, even you did it. If you're Town, you already have solid evidence that Town does it.
I didn't give a reason because I wanted to see if he would say anything about my lack of reason.
'I'm scumreading this person for doing X, but I'm going to do X to see if they scumread me for it'
- I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is helpful in the slightest, I think you're just full of crap here and are trying to cover your tracks.
I am awaiting the answer to this question. People who are not iDanyBoy may also answer it.
Something_Smart his vote seems random and it doesn't feel like his looking for scum
Ok cool, you gave some reasons. Why not vote for him now then? You weren't voting anyone else at this point. This feels like you're afraid to actually push forward with your 'read' which is a scummy thing to do.
In post 320, Something_Smart wrote:ok I'm feeling more town on Alchemist and I don't like to sheep but I'm pretty sure this is like the perfect time to sheep so VOTE: iDanyBoy
You vote me for sheeping while sheeping?
I agree with a lot of what Alchemist is posting (280) and didn't have much to add onto that, this is also making me see him as a townie.
I'd like to know what changed your vote from Alchemist to me?
In post 302, Something_Smart wrote:Because Mario seemed like an easy lynch and easy lynches that are town are prime places for scum to vote, especially when the overall state of the game is slow.
What makes you think he was an easy lynch? He only had two votes on him at that time and I unvoted shortly after.
VOTE: SS
He switches his votes from people to people with very little reasoning and his responses' to Alchemist seem like scum.
You eventually voted him here, but this was 2 days and ~50 posts later.
Spoiler:
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
It bothers me that you gave no reasoning for any of these (with the exception of SS in your iso)
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
What's your reason for BTD? I don't see anything about him in your ISO.
In post 359, MarioManiac4 wrote:like a lot what bothers me so much is that you care about making your argument independently and making sure everyone knows it's independent etc.
i feel like you're more about presentation than substance at this point
This, I don't see him scum hunting and when he doesn't feel authentic.
Why did you feel the need to specifically quote Mario here just to make your point?
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
In post 165, iDanyboy wrote:Without stating. It's in towns best interest to explain your reasoning thats why I think it's scummy.
But you didn't state reasons either. I definitely agree it's in Town's best interests to state reasoning but I disagree on it being scummy. Even though they shouldn't, Town make naked votes pretty frequently - far too often to be able to just slap scumreads on everyone who does it. I mean, even you did it. If you're Town, you already have solid evidence that Town does it.
I didn't give a reason because I wanted to see if he would say anything about my lack of reason.
'I'm scumreading this person for doing X, but I'm going to do X to see if they scumread me for it'
- I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is helpful in the slightest, I think you're just full of crap here and are trying to cover your tracks.
I am awaiting the answer to this question. People who are not iDanyBoy may also answer it.
Something_Smart his vote seems random and it doesn't feel like his looking for scum
Ok cool, you gave some reasons. Why not vote for him now then? You weren't voting anyone else at this point. This feels like you're afraid to actually push forward with your 'read' which is a scummy thing to do.
In post 320, Something_Smart wrote:ok I'm feeling more town on Alchemist and I don't like to sheep but I'm pretty sure this is like the perfect time to sheep so VOTE: iDanyBoy
You vote me for sheeping while sheeping?
I agree with a lot of what Alchemist is posting (280) and didn't have much to add onto that, this is also making me see him as a townie.
I'd like to know what changed your vote from Alchemist to me?
In post 302, Something_Smart wrote:Because Mario seemed like an easy lynch and easy lynches that are town are prime places for scum to vote, especially when the overall state of the game is slow.
What makes you think he was an easy lynch? He only had two votes on him at that time and I unvoted shortly after.
VOTE: SS
He switches his votes from people to people with very little reasoning and his responses' to Alchemist seem like scum.
You eventually voted him here, but this was 2 days and ~50 posts later.
Spoiler:
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
It bothers me that you gave no reasoning for any of these (with the exception of SS in your iso)
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
What's your reason for BTD? I don't see anything about him in your ISO.
In post 359, MarioManiac4 wrote:like a lot what bothers me so much is that you care about making your argument independently and making sure everyone knows it's independent etc.
i feel like you're more about presentation than substance at this point
This, I don't see him scum hunting and when he doesn't feel authentic.
Why did you feel the need to specifically quote Mario here just to make your point?
@Spoiler 3 I didn't find him scummy enough to vote at 282 but by 321 I felt my read was strong enough for a vote.
@Spoiler 4 I have given reasoning for 3 of them apart from BTD-6 already.
@Spoiler 5 Because that's my biggest concern with him and didn't want to present his reasoning as my own when I'm accusing BTD-6 of doing the same.
@Gamma I think Raya makes a good point. We need to see some reads from you.
@Dany, how would either BTD or Something_Smart flipping scum/Town affect your read on the other? Looking back at how they've interacted I don't think they'd be scum together.
In post 470, Alchemist21 wrote:@Gamma I think Raya makes a good point. We need to see some reads from you.
@Dany, how would either BTD or Something_Smart flipping scum/Town affect your read on the other? Looking back at how they've interacted I don't think they'd be scum together.
In post 165, iDanyboy wrote:Without stating. It's in towns best interest to explain your reasoning thats why I think it's scummy.
But you didn't state reasons either. I definitely agree it's in Town's best interests to state reasoning but I disagree on it being scummy. Even though they shouldn't, Town make naked votes pretty frequently - far too often to be able to just slap scumreads on everyone who does it. I mean, even you did it. If you're Town, you already have solid evidence that Town does it.
I didn't give a reason because I wanted to see if he would say anything about my lack of reason.
'I'm scumreading this person for doing X, but I'm going to do X to see if they scumread me for it'
- I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is helpful in the slightest, I think you're just full of crap here and are trying to cover your tracks.
I am awaiting the answer to this question. People who are not iDanyBoy may also answer it.
Something_Smart his vote seems random and it doesn't feel like his looking for scum
Ok cool, you gave some reasons. Why not vote for him now then? You weren't voting anyone else at this point. This feels like you're afraid to actually push forward with your 'read' which is a scummy thing to do.
In post 320, Something_Smart wrote:ok I'm feeling more town on Alchemist and I don't like to sheep but I'm pretty sure this is like the perfect time to sheep so VOTE: iDanyBoy
You vote me for sheeping while sheeping?
I agree with a lot of what Alchemist is posting (280) and didn't have much to add onto that, this is also making me see him as a townie.
I'd like to know what changed your vote from Alchemist to me?
In post 302, Something_Smart wrote:Because Mario seemed like an easy lynch and easy lynches that are town are prime places for scum to vote, especially when the overall state of the game is slow.
What makes you think he was an easy lynch? He only had two votes on him at that time and I unvoted shortly after.
VOTE: SS
He switches his votes from people to people with very little reasoning and his responses' to Alchemist seem like scum.
You eventually voted him here, but this was 2 days and ~50 posts later.
Spoiler:
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
It bothers me that you gave no reasoning for any of these (with the exception of SS in your iso)
In post 455, iDanyboy wrote:Town - GE , Alchemist
Scum - BTD-6, SS(stronger scumread)
What's your reason for BTD? I don't see anything about him in your ISO.
In post 359, MarioManiac4 wrote:like a lot what bothers me so much is that you care about making your argument independently and making sure everyone knows it's independent etc.
i feel like you're more about presentation than substance at this point
This, I don't see him scum hunting and when he doesn't feel authentic.
Why did you feel the need to specifically quote Mario here just to make your point?
@Spoiler 3 I didn't find him scummy enough to vote at 282 but by 321 I felt my read was strong enough for a vote.
@Spoiler 4 I have given reasoning for 3 of them apart from BTD-6 already.
@Spoiler 5
Because that's my biggest concern with him and didn't want to present his reasoning as my own when I'm accusing BTD-6 of doing the same.
I accept the first 2 points you made.[/b]
The 3rd is blatantly contradicting your earlier thought process. You scumread MM for voting without a reason, you then voted him without stating any reasoning and later said this:
I didn't give a reason because I wanted to see if he would say anything about my lack of reason.
VOTE: iDannyBoy
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
You didn't want to do the same thing are scumreading BTD for, but you that's exactly what you did when you voted for SS.
"just got my hands in cooking! feel free to give me suggestions. So far completed: noodle in soup, noodle stuffed clam over noodle, red white and bluedle american noodle, hot brown noodle"
- Ari
