Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)

[Bomberman]

I think the bigger question that should be asked wrt Mulch is how he can compile such a post with not even 5 pages of content

[Bomberman]

Idabyboy/eevee/uzi

SCUM TEAM

This again just doesn't really make sense to me (I read/skimmed prior to replacement), and feels like saving face instead of legitimate reads, because all of this only came out when Mulch was being pressured

If you're going to make accusatory claims like this, at the least back them up, so if you want me to not vote you you should tell me what tipped you off to these 3

[Bomberman]

Yes, I am reading this in association because you called these 3 specifically the scumteam, and quite frankly the post you compiled feels purely conjecture and I think nobody should entertain it, so I would suggest that you either give the thread more room to grow if you're just being antsy

[Bomberman]

It's poorly executed and you look extremely nervous

[Bomberman]

Well, if you really believed in everything you're saying was for the benefit of town, you wouldn't make posts that posture yourself like #108

..If you aren't nervous, why are you responding to me so haphazardly? This shouldn't even be a discussion from your perspective if I am just neglecting your 'legitimate efforts'

[Bomberman]

I won't entertain circular logic, Mulch

[Bomberman]

There's nothing I gain out of interacting with you at this moment if you're going to just defend yourself blindly instead of seeing that perhaps you need to change your mindset/attitude. Note that I haven't voted you because I believe there is a slight chance you are just Noobtown, but I will say that if you continue to play in the way you are I would have no issue voting you

[Bomberman]

I don't read people based on one philosophy because players play different and have different approaches to the game. I think you are a very emotional player and believe I would have a better chance deliberating your alignment once you're calmed down.

[Bomberman]

Well, if you really believed in everything you're saying was for the benefit of town, you wouldn't make posts that posture yourself like #108

..If you aren't nervous, why are you responding to me so haphazardly? This shouldn't even be a discussion from your perspective if I am just neglecting your 'legitimate efforts'

Yeah I'm still not seeing his play here to be of someone who's agitated or on the edge. I think he's trying to talk his way into a town leader like role and it comes off a bit as projecting since he's been downright cringe about it.

There's nothing I gain out of interacting with you at this moment if you're going to just defend yourself blindly instead of seeing that perhaps you need to change your mindset/attitude. Note that I haven't voted you because I believe there is a slight chance you are just Noobtown, but I will say that if you continue to play in the way you are I would have no issue voting you

So you're considering policy lynching him?

Can you give me some thoughts on everyone else who's posted? I know Mulch has been the loudest poster in the room but I'm starting to feel like you have an agenda, and not one that has any town motivation.

Hmm my lingo is rusty what is GAMM again? Also yeah i don't like how he completely tosses away your reads. He should at least explain why its wrongs here.

It's not common; I think I created it, I forgot to explain it early game.

Gut, Authenticity, Motivation, and Meta. Those are the 4 things everyone should be reading others on.

Logic is what we see as true. If scum is good enough your "logic" will be a well constructed lie.

Yes. It's a bad way to read people. Authenticity is better. If someone is BELIEVING what they are saying, even if they have the worst logic in the world, that makes them town.

This is really bad theory.

You only need motivation.

He read pretty confrontational to me, and I presumed it was nervous because he kept asserting himself and even dared me once or twice to vote him. Not sure what it was about, really. He came after me because I told him his post was purely conjecture and then insisted that I read it again, but I guess he just sees things in only one perspective given that I already told him what I felt about his wall.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate a policy lynch, nor is this really the place to talk about. I think that his behavior is inherently anti-town, but trying to get everyone to vote someone on those premises isn't going to do the town any good, which is why I am hoping to reason with him because I think his slot is salvageable; I wouldn't shed any tears if he was gone though. My statement on voting him if he didn't fix his play was only to reaffirm his anti-town behavior.

I have nothing too substantial to note about the other players, only gut feeling, and my focus on Mulch is because he was giving me more to look at, even if I feel like it was inevitably wasted given how uncooperative he was being. Do you think if Mulch had a scumteam, they would let him wreak havoc in the way he is?

[Bomberman]

I don't assume that he was afraid, that's not what I'm talking about. I felt he was nervous because from my perspective, a lot of what he was saying wasn't really fazing me. It seemed like he was trying to call my bluff or force me to engage with him in which I declined because I don't want to see threads divulge into arguments like that.

I believe that scum will do anything to win. Mulch's behavior has garnered him a position of control and as a result he's been able to steer the game in any direction he chooses. If he was scum, I can easily see his partners letting him continue until he cannot get away with it anymore.

Doesn't seem like control to me. All he did was make an ass out of himself and

attempt

to gain control. That being said, is this your angle on Mulch, or merely just a possible explanation for his behavior to you?

[Bomberman]

I'm not really worried about the votes on me honestly, but appreciate your insight regardless.

[Bomberman]

The problem I am facing right now when it comes to the current gamestate is that the people who have been most prominent in discussion are likely town and only nitpicking at each other

[Bomberman]

Mulch really likes making umbrella statements that only allude to his own mindset instead of why it's relevant to everyone (e.g Useless)

[Bomberman]

The problem I am facing right now when it comes to the current gamestate is that the people who have been most prominent in discussion are likely town and only nitpicking at each other

If, let's say, us two, Mulch, ELA and Danyboy are probably town nitpicking at each other, who do you think is actually scum then?

If I put this off and answer it later, would you be mad at me?

[Bomberman]

From my perspective, I am taking a lot of what is being said at purely face value, which has only solidified feelings towards certain players based on what they are posting but not necessarily their pushes. I don't think everyone posting is absolutely town but I would have confidence in Mulch/Dany/ELA tentatively being so.

[Bomberman]

I honestly didn't realize MMM had so many votes, but that begs the question if people believe MMM would willingly give all this information as scum

For how long will you put it off?

I know this sounds presumptuous but you'll know

[Bomberman]

Information in the sense that he has an absurdly high post count, has interacted with a majority of people, and has even written a wall or two about his reads

Granted, this behavior does not make him immediately town, but if my suspicion about what I talked about prior is true, it's more than likely that there are better votes/people to pursue, like ones who are more of an enigma

[Bomberman]

That'd spoil the surprise

The surprise given that I'm not ready to elaborate on it quite yet, and am waiting for a few particular things

[Bomberman]

I'm playing a bit more methodical than usual but it has purpose

[Bomberman]

Not necessarily, but based on MMM's tone I hesitate on the idea that he has some sort of agenda in his posts

Can you link some past games?

They're all off-site, old games on here don't reflect too well on how I am today

[Bomberman]

I assure you there's nothing magical about my play, rather I just don't want to say something without it being concrete

[Bomberman]

Fishie can be town for now. Hey Uzi why don't you make me feel like this? I feel like I've played enough with you now to have an idea on your game.

And I have a feeling I'm going to be let down by Bomberman's big reveal.

I think a lot of people are hyping me up for something that is essentially me saying 'I don't have anything I want to comment about in-depth right now'

[Bomberman]

ELA, chime in how you feel about MMM's outburst based on your experience with them and if he would do it as scum

[Bomberman]

I agree with you, and believe that even in MMM's frustration he has made pushes that are in conjunction with mine (LUV, as an example).

[Bomberman]

Is there where I reveal what I was waiting on? Sort of.

I think Tchill/Gerry/LUV are the best people to vote right now, my preference being LUV>Tchill>Gerry. I don't have enough to call Gerry anything therefore I'm not going to base arguments on that, but I will say that LUV has been playing low to the ground, and what I mean by that is even if he is trying to seemingly 'sort' the game out, there's nothing that really sticks. I don't really mind if people want to take their time, but a lot of the questions, pushes, and involvement don't really amount to much. It can be described as playing careful, which I don't like. This is coupled with the fact that LUV is supposed to be someone who is a seemingly 'hyperposter', but perhaps he's trying to correct that? I don't know if I can believe that for a good amount of reasons, and even then, if you look at LUV he's really not saying much.

MMM, this is your chance to join a contrarian wagon.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[Bomberman]

Formerfish's reasoning on Tchill I liked a good amount, but I don't know why he dropped it. What is really pinging me about Tchill/LUV is that they both are tip-toeing around everything going on. I particularly don't like Tchill unvoting me because it did not reach a proper conclusion as to why I deserved to be unvoted, unlike others who I felt like gave some sort of reason. He agreed with me about the gamestate and then unvoted? I'd prefer a proper explanation from him because right now I am reading it as someone who knew that my wagon wasn't going anywhere and hopped off before he looked stupid/awkward.

[Bomberman]

I'm going to take someone who has prior experience with MMM and his behavior as more credible than some ignoramus who tried to play power town out the gate and failed miserably.

[Bomberman]

A lot of people misconstrue or use mafia definitions to cover up their play and I really wish people would stop that. No offense, saying something is NAI does not instantly mean it shouldn't be read or taken in consideration based on anyone's type of play.

[Bomberman]

You misunderstand my frustration in that post. A lot of players these days like to account any behavior and fit into a mafia definition without defining why it is NAI or whatever the hell. It's very lazy and can be done by anyone who is willing to read the Mafia wiki. Saying something is NAI does not make it instantaneously NAI, because then scum could just get away with unprecedented behavior based on loose definitions used in a completely illogical manner.

[Bomberman]

Pretty sure if uzi flips scum then gerryoat is gonna push me pretty hard. Kinda interested to see what uzi might flip.

I'm also even more curious what uzi flips based on this response, because I'd think if you vote someone you would be inclined to think they're scum

[Bomberman]

Also if you're interested on what he might flip, why aren't you voting him?

He did earlier for very shallow reasons and then flipped onto you for again, very shallow reasons


I think Uzi/Tchill has one but that statement he made is definitely not a partner one, unless he really thinks trying to set up an excuse for Uzi flipping scum in conjuction to you trying to push his mislynch is a good idea

[Bomberman]

So can we end the day now? As opposed to just dragging this out for another day or two waiting for people who have IRL shit going on? Did everyone get what they wanted out of the day?

VOTE: Lil uzi

Why you wanting the day to end so quickly?

^

Jumping on a wagon that is attempting to get steam, this is not the first time he has done this (e.g me), for reasons unsubstantiated. I had this problem earlier with Tchill where I made the observation that he never made a logical conclusion as to why he was voting me in the first place, nor why he voted off, which is something I mentioned in my #351.

What has MMM done that's more scummier than Lil uzi asking to end the day early?

^ Affirmation of believing Lil Uzi has done scum behavior, prior to his "vote". Here's a minor interaction between the two where Tchill actively does not attempt to discern alignment, rather disengage someone and stop questioning their methods. Please note the vote prior made by Tchill on Lil Uzi.

Tchill, have you actually attempted to really sort anyone?

Not really. Is there someone you want me to sort right now?

Not really. Is there someone you want me to sort right now?

So if you haven't been actually sorting anyone, what have you been doing? How have you been helping the town?

And why are you asking your scum read who to sort?

I'm observing?... Haven't seen too much to sort from out of that many people yet. I wasn't asking my scum read to sort that was just a question in general.

I'm observing?... Haven't seen too much to sort from out of that many people yet. I wasn't asking my scum read to sort that was just a question in general.

This doesn't sound like a town response from the two-time MVP.

Being on the sidelines and observing is fine, except your play doesn't read like that at all. It reads like opportunistic scum. Why aren't you sharing what you've observed? What have you learned from your observations?

So far...
Strong town reads:
Dany boy (his case against me and questions he asked me)

Lil uzi

(the questions he asked at certain times are similar to questions I thought of at the same times)

Town lean: bomberman (gut feeling)

Strong null: mulch, formerfish, greyice

Scum lean:
MMM (I read the iso and the whole thing felt scummy to me, can go into more detail of needed)

If you're going to change your opinion on someone, you need to make it clear why it is. Clearly Tchill had a problem with Uzi's behavior but for some reason (completely unknown to most people) he backed off and actually listed him as

town

. If you want to say that people can changes reads, that's fine, but what really bothers me is the fact he did not ever try to actively pressure Lil Uzi in the chance he had to. He made this same mistake before with me and I don't think I can really forgive it again.

hey i can read tonight, please dont end the day before i'm able to

I particularly don't care if day 1 is short or long. Day 1 is the worst phase of the game in my opinion but it seems like on this site people consider it "towny" to push for long day 1s. The longer the day 1 the more likely you are to catch scum and the shorter the day 1 the more likely a mislynch is. I'm not gonna debate this either way I'm just saying what I've been told over and over again. Seems to me gerry wants it to be known he wants a longer day 1. Yeah this might be a stretch but it stuck out to me.

VOTE: gerryoat

This again just comes out of left-field. My observation about all this is that Tchill made sure to keep MMM at arm's length in case a mislynch happened and he wanted to get back on that wagon, which means that Tchill is simply trying to play around the room.

[Bomberman]

I don't even know why I'm scum read currently.

In my best Mulch impersonation, I have used GAMM to discern Tchill is scummier than you

Please vote him or I'll make ten posts about my stupid theory and annoy you

[Bomberman]

If I thought uzi was scum I'd be voting him.

My vote in uzi was rvs.

I'm interested in his flip because of what may happen next. If I was gerryoat I'd push me if he flipped scum because I threw a vote on him then voted someone else and gave him a strong town read. If he flips town I'm not sure what will happen. It'll be interesting either way but I won't contribute to his lynch.

Nope. Wrong. Lying. We were

far

from RVS when you voted Lil Uzi in your post, please don't try and make excuses for your shortcomings. I just pointed out to everyone how that's untrue so good luck trying to everyone otherwise.

[Bomberman]

If you can tell me why town lies about their votes and the specific timing of it, maybe I will believe you think that as town

[Bomberman]

If you think that's a good case you haven't been in the games where I wrote a thesis on why someone is scum

That's aside the point, why are you willing to accept you're guilty? I honestly don't get that and in the chance you were town I would ask you defend yourself and explain your reasoning. You're acting very coy and it can only get you so far.

[Bomberman]

Experience dictates that even the worst town has some sort of reasoning, nor would lie about something as simple as a vote. I would've been willing to accept 'yeah, sorry, I forgot to elaborate on this stance but I had a change of opinion'. That didn't happen however, he just tried to cover it up and say that the vote was RVS. That's really only one tidbit, and one that could likely be argued. I'd prefer to hear your reasoning why you believe Tchill will 'sort himself out'.

[Bomberman]

It's day 1 and my ability to sort players without hard evidence such as where votes landed on a lynch is very poor. The only thing I feel good about is my town read on idany right now.

Give me something, anything. Don't think about 'this might be stupid' or 'this isn't clear enough' because right now you have me working with nothing, and I can only assume that you're intentionally doing it at this point.

[Bomberman]

Not really. I can easily see newb town trying to cover it up because they're scared of the degree of pressure that can be applied in settings not in the Newbie Queue.

I just gave the reasoning in 560.

That doesn't tell me anything. All that did was refer to a post you made about a loose opinion as to why something is important to look at barring MMM's flip. I don't really know what your angle is but even I realize that making vague one-liner posts making idle observations loses it's charm after a while.

@Tchill

And your reasoning for other reads? Doesn't have to be indepth but something that can be followed.

[Bomberman]

You didn't offer me anything so I'm not sure if that idiom works. If you're going to try and sell me on an opinion you have to give a reason as to why I should care or agree with you.

Right now, you're basically trying to sell me thin air, but I've already got plenty of that so maybe you should change your occupation to one sentence idle commentator like you've been practicing in this thread.

[Bomberman]

[Bomberman]

You didn't offer me anything so I'm not sure if that idiom works. If you're going to try and sell me on an opinion you have to give a reason as to why I should care or agree with you.

Right now, you're basically trying to sell me thin air, but I've already got plenty of that so maybe you should change your occupation to one sentence idle commentator like you've been practicing in this thread.

Thanks bomber I'll continue to do that until the beginning of day 2 like I was planning. I don't see how I could be much help on day 1.

Was talking to Uzi.

[Bomberman]

You didn't offer me anything so I'm not sure if that idiom works. If you're going to try and sell me on an opinion you have to give a reason as to why I should care or agree with you.

Right now, you're basically trying to sell me thin air, but I've already got plenty of that so maybe you should change your occupation to one sentence idle commentator like you've been practicing in this thread.

Why is MMM's slot town?

Here's my uzi impression based on this response

[Bomberman]

I agree with Grey

VOTE: LMKguy

<<< The mod provides free tag fixes...
...That is, when she actually gets to the post in question. >>>

[Bomberman]

VOTE: LMKguy*

[Bomberman]

Wait, let me posture myself on why I agree with Grey, because maybe that will enact change from the people who thinking have casual conversations that span over 25 pages is a good thing for town. For starters, I already felt that the majority of people were nitpicking at each other were likely town, but I do hold my reservation with some players. Those in particular have already been discussed, but at this point, I don't think it would prove beneficial. You have a bunch of players sitting on MMM whose a slot that is not even here to be pressured. It's essentially a useless vote and when I tried to get Lil Uzi to tell me why he's still on it and what his reasons were, he stuck his tongue out at me as if there needed to be no justification. I don't particularily like this but I believe I've pointed this out many times.

Now, at some point, I have to realize what kinda game I'm playing right now. People are literally voting a slot that has replaced out and cannot be pressured. I'm not sure what it's gonna take to round everyone out and enact some intellectual debate, but they do say that you need to be the change you want to see in the world. I'm not gonna really accept what's going on right now because I keep coming back to this thread just to see there has been no progression whatsoever. Let's start over and push different avenues instead of sitting on ones that even the most dense of scum could, because right now they don't need to justify anything. Do I think MMM is town? Yeah. Do I think Lil Uzi/Tchill are likely scum? Probably. I'm not gonna beat these opinions into your head and then pretend it's good and everyone else just doesn't wanna listen to me. Grey makes decent points about LMKguy and he's a slot that hasn't been talked to death already, which is something that desperately needs to be changed.

[Bomberman]

No I want to lynch MMM's slot.

Where is Fish?

When are you gonna get a new opinion? Are you in love with MMM that you feel you need to talk about him all the time? Talk about other players. Maybe chime in on what Grey said instead of ignoring different opinions that don't match yours.

[Bomberman]

He's already been pressured and cracked. I don't think the way he did comes from town and he's my strongest scum read.

I'm literally going to ignore anything you say if you're too stubborn to consider alternatives. Even in the event of MMM being scum like you perceive, we're not gonna gain much out of it at this rate because either scum has accepted their partner is dead in the water or they can just sheep opinions without any effort.

[Bomberman]

Then vote him and stop being a useless piece of shit.

[Bomberman]

What do we fucking gain? Please tell me. Do you not read words? I highly believe that if MMM is mafia, their partners have already accepted his fate. They don't need to do anything. Why don't you talk about the people you think are scum or maybe even town in regards to the MMM wagon. That might actually be helpful instead of hoping something magical is gonna come out of his flip. What happens if he's town? Scum? Who are you thinking of voting based on either scenario and who should we be looking at in reference to these flips.

Am I in a newbie game?

[Bomberman]

Can you please answer my fucking questions instead of reiterating the same opinion you've made about 6 times now.

[Bomberman]

I feel like I'm talking to cleverbot, and not an actual person sometimes.

[Bomberman]

I already answered. I said why I'm so focused on the slot and what we gained

..Where? I'm blind. Point it out to me. Reiterate these statements in a way that I can follow.

Answer this please. Please

FUCK OFF

[Bomberman]

Replace out

<<< This was also acknowledged. >>>

[Bomberman]

All I wanted is some kind of fresh opinion, not having to reread the same exact thing you've said previously. You couldn't give that to me and I'm at my wit's end. I can't deal with this any longer and I'm not enjoying myself at all. The state of this game is absolutely wrecked because people actively refuse to try and cooperate with one another, trying to force others to agree with their opinions. Maybe this would be OK if those opinions were thought out, substantiated, or didn't read like they were written on a bathroom wall, but they're not. Nothing is changing and you'll all probably wait last minute and pile on a lynch half-committed because someone louder and prouder believing that read said so, regardless of getting input about it.

[Bomberman]

lol, retti the king of replacing out.

This place became EpicMafia somehow. I didn't ask for this nor want this.

[Bomberman]

Replace out

WTF MAN

You're part of the problem and I seriously hope you get banned.

[Bomberman]

it wasnt even that big of an argument tho. you're upset at scum for not changing their mind

Even

if

Uzi is scum, are we really getting anywhere? I think the dude is full of shit, unhelpful, and a bunch of other things, but I'm not going to immediately assume every read I make is 100% accurate and that I'm willing to just roll with the idea and hope people agree with me. I don't want to feel like I was wrong on a player for anti-town behavior, and I want to try and get them to play in a way that is more beneficial. Even in the event of him being scum, he's playing a horrible game and not learning anything out of it. People will start thinking this is okay and playstyles like this will continue to pop up.